Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 391.

BADecker

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Quote from: Beliathon on July 13, 2015, 08:48:55 PM

Quote from: the joint on July 13, 2015, 04:51:59 PM

The posterchild for reason who refuses to support an argument without succumbing to the use of the lowest forms of argument.

Comedy has merit, even when you're the butt of the joke.

Yes. Even God, since He has hidden aspects of all knowledge from Himself temporarily, receives pleasure from the comedy that re-enlightens some of His hidden knowledge to Himself.

BADecker

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Quote from: the joint on July 13, 2015, 06:04:54 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 05:16:56 PM

Quote from: the joint on July 13, 2015, 03:37:39 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 02:50:36 PM

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:39:08 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

That's part of it. The rest of it has to do with the observational fact that we have no freedom of choice. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11864476

Free will vs. determinism is a false dichotomy. Compatibilism is a 3rd option, modeled as self-determinancy, and in which freedom and determinism exist simultaneously in perfect counterbalance.

Since you can't get away from the fact of an ultra-complex universe, in conjunction with no known beginning, and containing entropy throughout (that we know of), all existing at present through cause and effect (that we know of), continue to enjoy your illusion of free will. It is part of your joy. After all, if we weren't meant to have this freedom illusion, or the joy illusion it produces, the Creator would have done things differently.

Lol BD, all this cause-and-effect rhetoric, and you cant even effect a conclusion that follows from your premises.

If I can't that is my problem. Thank you for following my suggestion to enjoy your illusion of freedom.

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: the joint on July 13, 2015, 04:51:59 PM

The posterchild for reason who refuses to support an argument without succumbing to the use of the lowest forms of argument.

Comedy has merit, even when you're the butt of the joke.

the joint

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1020

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 05:16:56 PM

Quote from: the joint on July 13, 2015, 03:37:39 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 02:50:36 PM

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:39:08 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

That's part of it. The rest of it has to do with the observational fact that we have no freedom of choice. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11864476

Free will vs. determinism is a false dichotomy. Compatibilism is a 3rd option, modeled as self-determinancy, and in which freedom and determinism exist simultaneously in perfect counterbalance.

Since you can't get away from the fact of an ultra-complex universe, in conjunction with no known beginning, and containing entropy throughout (that we know of), all existing at present through cause and effect (that we know of), continue to enjoy your illusion of free will. It is part of your joy. After all, if we weren't meant to have this freedom illusion, or the joy illusion it produces, the Creator would have done things differently.

Lol BD, all this cause-and-effect rhetoric, and you cant even effect a conclusion that follows from your premises.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: the joint on July 13, 2015, 03:37:39 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 02:50:36 PM

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:39:08 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

That's part of it. The rest of it has to do with the observational fact that we have no freedom of choice. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11864476

Free will vs. determinism is a false dichotomy. Compatibilism is a 3rd option, modeled as self-determinancy, and in which freedom and determinism exist simultaneously in perfect counterbalance.

Since you can't get away from the fact of an ultra-complex universe, in conjunction with no known beginning, and containing entropy throughout (that we know of), all existing at present through cause and effect (that we know of), continue to enjoy your illusion of free will. It is part of your joy. After all, if we weren't meant to have this freedom illusion, or the joy illusion it produces, the Creator would have done things differently.

the joint

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1020

Quote from: Beliathon on July 13, 2015, 04:08:14 PM

Quote from: camelson on July 13, 2015, 03:26:57 PM

Ist it your own made definition? The definition of GOD is different in Different religion, You cant impose your definition on People

Yes, mine is a many-breasted God of Tits, Wine, and Weed. My god loves orgasms and embodied experience. My god rejects abstract notions such as afterlife as irrelevant to living life fully.

My god is reason.

The posterchild for reason who refuses to support an argument without succumbing to the use of the lowest forms of argument. Ironic. Roll Eyes

BADecker

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Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: camelson on July 13, 2015, 03:26:57 PM

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 02:47:42 PM

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:41:58 PM

Quote

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences

BD you have to be able to define "God" in reality, ie real terms or its just a perspective.

Edit - is why I'm advocating swop out the word "God" for universe, it is alive and all encompassing it is in us, we are in it, it shows no fear or favour......etc

Defining God isn't easy, and will never be complete. But to see a glimpse... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11869484.

Ist it your own made definition? The definition of GOD is different in Different religion, You cant impose your definition on People, lets say, christian take different definition of GOD than the Muslim, Thesis think differently. You cant impose your religion on other, unless you prove your Self right, and its not easy by the way. Because you have to prove many thing wrong which you cant. I think you should reed the definition of GOD here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Since people are essentially the same in all basics except training and/or indoctrination, the real God over all people is the same. The only difference is the arbitrary attributes that people apply to Him.

In the basics of God, the ideas of cause and effect, and entropy, are the same no matter what other attributes you assign to Him. In other words, I am proposing the basics of this universe regarding the real God, not the arbitrary attributes various religions assign to Him.

Beliathon

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https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: camelson on July 13, 2015, 03:26:57 PM

Ist it your own made definition? The definition of GOD is different in Different religion, You cant impose your definition on People

Yes, mine is a many-breasted God of Tits, Wine, and Weed. My god loves orgasms and embodied experience. My god rejects abstract notions such as afterlife as irrelevant to living life fully.

My god is reason.

the joint

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1020

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 02:50:36 PM

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:39:08 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

That's part of it. The rest of it has to do with the observational fact that we have no freedom of choice. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11864476

Free will vs. determinism is a false dichotomy. Compatibilism is a 3rd option, modeled as self-determinancy, and in which freedom and determinism exist simultaneously in perfect counterbalance.

camelson

copper member

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1000

Quote from: BADecker on July 13, 2015, 02:47:42 PM

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:41:58 PM

Quote

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences

BD you have to be able to define "God" in reality, ie real terms or its just a perspective.

Edit - is why I'm advocating swop out the word "God" for universe, it is alive and all encompassing it is in us, we are in it, it shows no fear or favour......etc

Defining God isn't easy, and will never be complete. But to see a glimpse... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11869484.

Ist it your own made definition? The definition of GOD is different in Different religion, You cant impose your definition on People, lets say, christian take different definition of GOD than the Muslim, Thesis think differently. You cant impose your religion on other, unless you prove your Self right, and its not easy by the way. Because you have to prove many thing wrong which you cant. I think you should reed the definition of GOD here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

Tusk

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 260

The problem with your suggestion BD is you asking people to accept a concept that there isn't a shred of evidence for and is loaded with so much baggage. Acknowledging the universe is merely accepting the self evident. The later requires no external validation. Yet by sharing our experience of it we are able to grow and enrich that experience. We are under no obligation to accept anyone else's perspective but by being discerning and filtering out that which is common we are better able to adapt to it and enrich our lives.

the joint

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Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:39:08 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

Objective reality exists in relation to subjectivism. The root word of rationale is "ratio," and all rational statements are made meaningful through a subject-object relationship, or 'ratio.' This is evident, for example, just by looking at our language. Imagine I write a sentence, "Apple." Okay...apple what? An apple is an object, but stating "apple" alone is entirely meaningless and does not convey any sort of a rational thought. Now, if I instead say "this apple (subject) is red (objective classifier)," then the objective apple is subjectivized and ascribed with an objective classifier of 'redness.' No meaningful objective reality of any kind exists independent of co-dependence with subjectivism.

So, the cat is real at any time it is subjectivized as real (including by itself). Objective reality always has a subjective component. This is inescapable.

BADecker

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Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:39:08 PM

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

That's part of it. The rest of it has to do with the observational fact that we have no freedom of choice. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11864476

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:41:58 PM

Quote

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences

BD you have to be able to define "God" in reality, ie real terms or its just a perspective.

Edit - is why I'm advocating swop out the word "God" for universe, it is alive and all encompassing it is in us, we are in it, it shows no fear or favour......etc

Defining God isn't easy, and will never be complete. But to see a glimpse... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11869484.

Tusk

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 260

Quote

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences

BD you have to be able to define "God" in reality, ie real terms or its just a perspective.

Edit - is why I'm advocating swop out the word "God" for universe, it is alive and all encompassing it is in us, we are in it, it shows no fear or favour......etc

Tusk

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 260

I think I understand what you are saying, Our perception of reality is subjective? Yes if a cat runs across the road, one individual may take another route based on their perception while another may pick it up and stoke it. But in both cases the cat is real.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:30:13 PM

Everything we experience is reality, this is true for for everybody. How we make sense of our experiences and try to communicate it is subjective. That's why the sciences have been developed to try and distill an essence of what is common about or experience of it.

All of our experience exists because the universe was programmed by God to give us our experiences.

Simply because we have experience doesn't mean that we have freedom of choice, or free will. Riding a roller coaster can be a huge experience. But we don't have anything at all to do with the experience-producing part of it. It simply happens to us.

If you want to say that getting on the roller coaster in the first place was a free choice, consider all the things in life that prompted us to do it.

Again, I don't claim that there is no free will or free choice. What I claim is that without God, evidence of such becomes nothing... at least at this stage of our understanding.

the joint

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Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:13:26 PM

What you advocating is, reality is an illusion. I don't buy that.

I'd like to weigh in, here:

What is "reality" or "real" is inherently linked to a theory of what "real" is. For example, if I say "this apple is real," this constitutes a theory of the apple inasmuch as it is theorized to be real. In this case, because we could not identify the apple without our perceptions to verify its existence, the "realness" of the apple is linked to perception. This can be said of any identfiable, "real" phenomenon -- i.e. what is "real" is a theory of something based upon how it is perceived.

Tusk

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 260

Everything we experience is reality, this is true for for everybody. How we make sense of our experiences and try to communicate it is subjective. That's why the sciences have been developed to try and distill an essence of what is common about or experience of it.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 02:13:26 PM

What you advocating is, reality is an illusion. I don't buy that.

Not at all. What I am saying is that the things that we often conclude to be reality from our observations of the universe, those are the illusion.

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