Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 397. (Read 901367 times)

That's the most reasonable theist I've seen on these boards yet.

LOGIC 101:

A creator must exist outside of whatever it is he or she is creating. So if what you're creating is reality itself, you'll need to not be real.

THEREFORE, any creator could not exist within our reality, and therefore the claim of a Creator is impossible to disprove. As this claim is impossible to disprove, it can never be scientific. The end.

FURTHERMORE, a creator concealing the truth about his existence by failing to PROVE his existence would be violating of the free will of his own creation, in that you have denied them vital information about their spiritual choices, information that could determine whether or not they burn for eternity.

Finally, a voice of reason. This is exactly what I said once and it was pretty much ignored by the nonsense of some members. One needs to think deeply for a moment to understand this, I've actually read it somewhere and memorized parts of it.
 
What if you were born in a different region of the world and you were taught different beliefs than the one that you have now? Would you still hold the same beliefs as you do today? It's highly improbable that you would.
This pretty much tells us that beliefs are largely based on the region and upbringing. Atheists have managed to unlearn that which they do not agree with. It's definitely better on this path.

I am a Muslim, but to all the Atheists out there, I would like to send my special congratulations to you, because most of the people who believe in a God are doing blind belief - a man is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; another is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him. And that is truly commendable.

BADecker didn't say the last part.  I did.  And, to counteract your (invalid) secret mashed potato rebuttal, here is more of, well, me to elucidate your fallacy:


Edit:  To this extent, I could put Richard Dawkins out of business.

Christian for years, read the bible... nope.  Just lots of stories with nothing to back it up.  And a god that really has an issue with his ego :x

Of course, there is a danger if you are a staunch atheist, or a believer of some other religion... a danger if you read the Bible. It is through the words of the Bible that God works on the spirits of people. You just might wind up being converted if you read.

 

So funny.

My only point was that there are multiple stories in the bible, multiple authors. It's not like just one book, or one "story". Re-reading the bible is always a good thing. You can always see things in a new light depending on where you are in your life. There are plenty of stories, or songs, or proverbs, etc. There should be at least one thing that is interesting to everyone. Of course that's supposing they believe.

Any religious text may not be interesting to others if they don't believe in it. Though I think there are plenty of stories in the bible that are interesting even if you don't believe and just take them as parables.

Not the first time, no. The problem with Christians is that one read is never enough, and they can never stop yapping about the (2,000 year old) "good news" from their "good book".  

66 "books", each being the length of short stories written for 8th graders... I think I've just discovered the root of the problem, Christians don't know what books are!

You could also say that all the matter in the universe is secretly made of of mashed potatoes from an extra-universal potato God, but there isn't much evidence to support either claim, so sane people don't go around saying such things.

This passage that you wrote is both a mathematical and logical formulation, adhering to the most fundamental algebraic structure of all -- language.  Any thought you will ever have, and every sentence you will ever communicate, is mathematical/algebraic.  "In the beginning was the Word," i.e. language, i.e. mathematics.


Another statement formulated according to an algebraic structure.


More math (in structure).


Math (in structure).

Edit:  Correct, there is no way to possibly know whether some higher form of logic exists.  That is why it is completely irrelevant to us and I will never entertain it in a discussion (nor should you) other than to say that, well...it's irrelevant.  Actually, it's irrelevant, quite literally, because it is unreal...because only that which we know is real accords to our logic.  Anything that our logic cannot account for is thus a priori unreal.

Talk like this might be fun, but it is entirely meaningless. Why? Because even within all the math and logic that mankind has come up with, mankind is so extremely weak in every way imaginable, that we can't know whether or not there is some aspect of even logic that is in God's inside-the-universe realm, but not in man's as yet.

Mankind is starting to do some great things. And these great things lie withing the realms of both the physical and mental. But man is just barely starting to learn them, like how to regrow limbs... while there are animals by the thousands or millions that do it on a regular basis.

Mankind is just barely able to keep people alive for a little while longer. Why not for a mere 200 years?

There is no way that anyone could possibly be certain that God doesn't maintain secrets of logic, reason, wisdom, and power right inside the universe... things that would completely negate most of the logic of mankind if they were known.

Perhaps when we have discovered almost all the laws of the space-time continuum, perhaps when we have time travel, radio-telepathy, people living for a thousand years or indefinitely, and a whole lot more, perhaps then nothing about God's inside-the-universe logic will be hidden from mankind.

Until such a time, it is in our best interests to look for the ways that God talks to us about the things that He knows, rather than listening to ourselves talk about the things we assume.

Except where they don't overlap, which you never acknowledge, and in which case you use the terms incorrectly (like when trying to communicate with virtually everyone who uses the words because of their distinctions).

But it doesn't matter, anyway, unless you're just trying to win a pointless semantic argument.  Could you contribute something of practical value?

Yes this is the problem, they are not reading. They just pick one two words from the above post and start predicting from themseleves. They dont even bother of posting false stories, which they are posting from themselves.

I don't know how anyone can read the bible and call it boring.

And it's a bit more than just "one book"...there are 66 books in the bible.

You are In Islam there are two ways where you can get Knowledge about each and every thing.
The Quran
The Sunnah of Holy Prophet S.A.W

Quran E Hakeem is the last book of Allah Almighty which is revealed on the last and beloved prophet OF Allah Almighty. This book tells the complete code of life. It is the book of wisdom. It addresses the every issue of this life and the next world. The teachings of Quran are not for only particular nation but for the whole community. It is not a profound Book discussing only crime and punishment but it is a Book that talks of God, His relationship with man, man’s relationship with other men and man’s relationship with nature. There are many issues which are addressed in Quran E Hakeem. There are certain major themes of Quran E Hakeem. The discussion on these themes is given below:-

Allah and His unity
Mohammad and the Prophets
Islam and other religions
Man as individual
Man as social
Satan and Evil
The concept of life after death
All the ways of life
and much more.....

1) Assuming God must therefore be outside the Universe could in this case be viewed as a semantic limitation of an empirical worldview.  I much prefer to use mathematical sets, specifically Real and Unreal.  If God is real, then He must necessarily be within the set of reality, and there could be nothing real enough outside of Reality so as to be able to determine it or create it (hence reality must create and/or determine itself).  I'd also point out that your own thoughts or feelings cannot be empirically observed.  Would you conclude they are unreal or outside of the Universe?

2) Yes, and I actually attempted to linguistically model this within this thread.  The most general modeling, which requires a lot of explanation, is that God : reality :: man : perceptions.  You could say God is trying to know Himself and self-actualize via a superpositional, singular act of creation; that reality is essentially a theory of itself; that we are stratified, isomorphic images of God who attempt to know ourselves and self-actualize via our perceptions of objective reality and the theories we derive therefrom.  Objectivity is a relation.  At the "god-level," He knows Himself objectively relative to his creation.  At the "stratified-level," we know ourselves relative to the theories we form about objective reality as it is perceived.  There must always be a subjective anchor by which objective reality can be known, and it is known in terms of the subjective anchor itself.  

Edit:  Phrased another way, consider God in terms of both objectivity and relativity, where "objective" God is monistic, and "relative" God is stratified, i.e. "objective god" is distributing its monistic structure or essence into its stratified constituents.  This stratification allows for diversity in essence.  Accordingly, one person who claims Jesus is the only way may be completely correct, and as correct as someone else who says Allah is the only way -- what the two share is a recognition of the monistic essence in spite of its diversity.  However, one who rejects the essence altogether may be in trouble, for he rejects the means by which he can self-actualize and know his true nature as a part of that essence.

I forgot to mention, another reason I hate religion is because it's so fucking boring. One book? You GOTTA be kidding me, even the LIBRARY is infinitely more exciting than a church.

Think about how retarded it is that in 2015, when nine year olds have pocket-computers linking them to the entire compendium of human knowledge, we still have entire buildings dedicated to the study of one book.

#Libraries_Not_Churchs

This ^^ thinking is reasonable.

Many atheists use the word "atheism" incorrectly. They are not atheists as much as they are agnostics.

I think that it is similar for the word "religion." I don't know what word would be a good word to take the place of "religion," but some of the dictionary definitions for both words, "atheism" and "religion," are not what people often think of. In fact, some of the definitions of both words overlap, making atheism fall within the classification as a religion... and maybe religion fall within the classification as atheism a little.

i think religion was made by people for the people, so that they learn discipline, stay focused and absorb some good character. but there are lots of things which need explanation. atheists refuse to believe in things which do not have any physical presence. they find it illogical to follow something blindly. but this is not the reason for hating religion. the main problem with religion is it creates divide among the people who can be united. secondly it is also being used as a business tool (at least here). may be main reason for hating religion..   

My only questions about this are:

1. If God is omnipotent, why couldn't He make Himself to be within the universe and outside of it, entirely, and at the same time, while not allowing the universe to have anything to do with anything outside of it, and vice versa, except that He allowed it to be so in certain instances?

2. Is there any way an Objective God could let some people believe in Him while completely allowing those people who didn't believe in Him to not even recognize that He exists, and also letting a method exist to reach those people who didn't believe in Him so that now and again some of them would become believers?