Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 413.

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legendary

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Quote from: btcjoin14 on June 04, 2015, 09:58:55 PM

This thread is going out of control... Not every atheist hates religion ,Everyone has the right to believe in what they want

It was never really going to be a mature solid conversion was it. I mean OPs initial question was a fallacy because it was a loaded question from the start.

btcjoin14

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This thread is going out of control... Not every atheist hates religion ,Everyone has the right to believe in what they want

celestio

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Quote from: Mageant on June 04, 2015, 07:06:05 PM

Quote from: celestio on June 04, 2015, 07:02:19 PM

Quote from: Mageant on June 04, 2015, 06:40:02 PM

Why bother *hating* religion?

If you have figured out religion is not for you, then good for you!

Let's share our ideas and respect each others' beliefs.

Respecting people's intolerant beliefs is about the worst thing one can do. That's what leads to discrimination, prejudice, etc.

What a person actually does with their beliefs is a different matter.

Yes that's true, I indirectly meant the result of their beliefs in action i.e discrimination, prejudice. Perfect example was Indiana's laws concerning business owners having the right to refuse customers because of their religious beliefs.

Mageant

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Quote from: celestio on June 04, 2015, 07:02:19 PM

Quote from: Mageant on June 04, 2015, 06:40:02 PM

Why bother *hating* religion?

If you have figured out religion is not for you, then good for you!

Let's share our ideas and respect each others' beliefs.

Respecting people's intolerant beliefs is about the worst thing one can do. That's what leads to discrimination, prejudice, etc.

What a person actually does with their beliefs is a different matter.

celestio

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Quote from: Mageant on June 04, 2015, 06:40:02 PM

Why bother *hating* religion?

If you have figured out religion is not for you, then good for you!

Let's share our ideas and respect each others' beliefs.

Respecting people's intolerant beliefs is about the worst thing one can do. That's what leads to discrimination, prejudice, etc.

elusive1

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I will bet $100 with anyone that my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend. Hell, nations have gone to war for the same reason!

Mageant

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Why bother *hating* religion?

If you have figured out religion is not for you, then good for you!

Let's share our ideas and respect each others' beliefs.

the joint

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Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 06:31:17 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 06:19:33 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 05:29:20 PM

You know, for a million dollars I can prove anything. And for another disprove what I proved earlier! But you don't have a million dollars, so it doesn't matter anyway...

Let it go. If you really want, I'll throw down $100. If you really want to lose $100, go for it.

How can I lose? I guess I can either win or not win. We aren't betting, are we? If I prove something, you pay, if I fail, you don't. As simple as that, right?

So long as I die before you, you can never lose.

...but really, why are you so fixated on this? The deduction is correct. If you want to make an actual bet and lose, go for it.

deisik

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Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 06:19:33 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 05:29:20 PM

You know, for a million dollars I can prove anything. And for another disprove what I proved earlier! But you don't have a million dollars, so it doesn't matter anyway...

Let it go. If you really want, I'll throw down $100. If you really want to lose $100, go for it.

How can I lose? I guess I can either win or not win. We aren't betting, are we? If I prove something, you pay, if I fail, you don't. As simple as that, right?

pedrog

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The James Randi Fondation does offer 1 million dollars to anyone who can prove supernatural stuff, and they do have the million dollars to give:

http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html

the joint

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Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 05:29:20 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 05:23:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 05:02:33 PM

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on June 04, 2015, 04:37:30 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

The million dollar thing was a figure of speech.
We all have to realise we are all from different geographic locations (thousands of miles apart maybe) with different ways of saying things.

So when someone asks you to do something and says that he will pay you a tidy sum of money for doing that, this is not what he actually means or is going to pay?

Oh, well, I'm only curious whether all atheists are like that or it's just you

Just google "I bet a million dollars that..."

I haven't done this, but it's a common expression.

I'm curious whether you realize that I'm a theist. I have absolutely no idea why you think that matters, anyway.

You know, for a million dollars I can prove anything. And for another disprove what I proved earlier! But you don't have a million dollars, so it doesn't matter anyway...

Let it go. If you really want, I'll throw down $100. If you really want to lose $100, go for it.

deisik

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Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 05:23:49 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 05:02:33 PM

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on June 04, 2015, 04:37:30 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

The million dollar thing was a figure of speech.
We all have to realise we are all from different geographic locations (thousands of miles apart maybe) with different ways of saying things.

So when someone asks you to do something and says that he will pay you a tidy sum of money for doing that, this is not what he actually means or is going to pay?

Oh, well, I'm only curious whether all atheists are like that or it's just you

Just google "I bet a million dollars that..."

I haven't done this, but it's a common expression.

I'm curious whether you realize that I'm a theist. I have absolutely no idea why you think that matters, anyway.

You know, for a million dollars I can prove anything. And for another disprove what I proved earlier! But you don't have a million dollars, so it doesn't matter anyway...

the joint

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Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 05:02:33 PM

Quote from: Buffer Overflow on June 04, 2015, 04:37:30 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

The million dollar thing was a figure of speech.
We all have to realise we are all from different geographic locations (thousands of miles apart maybe) with different ways of saying things.

So when someone asks you to do something and says that he will pay you a tidy sum of money for doing that, this is not what he actually means or is going to pay?

Oh, well, I'm only curious whether all atheists are like that or it's just you

Just google "I bet a million dollars that..."

I haven't done this, but it's a common expression.

I'm curious whether you realize that I'm a theist. I have absolutely no idea why you think that matters, anyway.

deisik

legendary

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Merit: 1280

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Quote from: Buffer Overflow on June 04, 2015, 04:37:30 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

The million dollar thing was a figure of speech.
We all have to realise we are all from different geographic locations (thousands of miles apart maybe) with different ways of saying things.

So when someone asks you to do something and says that he will pay you a tidy sum of money for doing that, this is not what he actually means or is going to pay?

Oh, well, I'm only curious whether all atheists are like that or it's just you

Buffer Overflow

legendary

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Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

The million dollar thing was a figure of speech.
We all have to realise we are all from different geographic locations (thousands of miles apart maybe) with different ways of saying things.

deisik

legendary

Activity: 3514

Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 04:02:47 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

Yeah...I think you read into this way, way too much. You didn't prove the deduction wrong, you'll never prove it wrong, and nobody else will ever prove it wrong, because it is correct.

How much are you really going to stake?

the joint

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Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

Yeah...I think you read into this way, way too much. You didn't prove the deduction wrong, you'll never prove it wrong, and nobody else will ever prove it wrong, because it is correct.

deisik

legendary

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Merit: 1280

English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 03:24:37 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

I'm not going to say that this is not how agreements are made (that was your idea, after all), since even if you had a million dollars (which you obviously don't), you wouldn't give them in any case. In fact, your failure is more serious than that. You tried to emphasize your confidence where you actually should have questioned it...

the joint

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1020

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:55:56 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 01:41:20 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:21:43 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 01:00:41 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 12:52:01 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 12:42:08 PM

Premise 1: Empiricism (i.e. gaining knowledge through experience of physical phenomena) cannot explore or conclude upon that which is not physical. This is axiomatic (i.e. this premise is true).

Premise 2: By definition, the defining characteristic of God is non-physical. This is axiomatic (i.e. this premise is true).

Therefore: Empiricism cannot explore or conclude upon God. This is a sound deduction (the conclusion follows from true premises).

That is the crux of my point, and you must refute that exact point to stand a chance at being correct. I'll give you the rest of your natural life to do so, and give you $1 million if successful.

Okay, do you have $1 million and are you ready to give it to anyone who would refute that point (in case you have that much in the first place, of course)?

Lol Nice.

I don't disclose my wealth, so take that as you wish.

I would gladly enter into this agreement, but I would clarify some things before actually doing so (e.g. the definition of God used in premise 2 is that of an "omnipotent creator of reality," which needn't actually be proven true or false for the argument to work, but rather is assumed to be true because it is a commonly-accepted conceptualization of what a monotheistic god is). Other clarifications are also necessary, e.g. that empiricism cannot *soundly* conclude about God (saying something like "Empiricism can soundly conclude that it can't conclude about God," or something similar, doesn't count). There would be a few others.

But on the whole, yes.

I didn't ask about your wealth, I asked whether you have 1 million dollars, since it was you who said that you would give that amount (not me asking in the first place). Do you follow me?

Asking if I have $1 million dollars is asking me about my wealth. Or at least it's asking about it enough to the point where an honest answer could jeopardize my safety.

Let's put it this way -- I may or may not have $1 million, and if I do, I'll gladly enter into such an agreement.

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

It's a moot point, anyway. The reason I said what I said was to emphasize my confidence. I thought this was obvious. Really, I don't need to worry about some negative feedback along the lines, "User offers $1 million dollar bet without proof he has it. Scammer!" do I?

deisik

legendary

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Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 01:41:20 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 01:21:43 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 01:00:41 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 04, 2015, 12:52:01 PM

Quote from: the joint on June 04, 2015, 12:42:08 PM

Premise 1: Empiricism (i.e. gaining knowledge through experience of physical phenomena) cannot explore or conclude upon that which is not physical. This is axiomatic (i.e. this premise is true).

Premise 2: By definition, the defining characteristic of God is non-physical. This is axiomatic (i.e. this premise is true).

Therefore: Empiricism cannot explore or conclude upon God. This is a sound deduction (the conclusion follows from true premises).

That is the crux of my point, and you must refute that exact point to stand a chance at being correct. I'll give you the rest of your natural life to do so, and give you $1 million if successful.

Okay, do you have $1 million and are you ready to give it to anyone who would refute that point (in case you have that much in the first place, of course)?

Lol Nice.

I don't disclose my wealth, so take that as you wish.

I would gladly enter into this agreement, but I would clarify some things before actually doing so (e.g. the definition of God used in premise 2 is that of an "omnipotent creator of reality," which needn't actually be proven true or false for the argument to work, but rather is assumed to be true because it is a commonly-accepted conceptualization of what a monotheistic god is). Other clarifications are also necessary, e.g. that empiricism cannot *soundly* conclude about God (saying something like "Empiricism can soundly conclude that it can't conclude about God," or something similar, doesn't count). There would be a few others.

But on the whole, yes.

I didn't ask about your wealth, I asked whether you have 1 million dollars, since it was you who said that you would give that amount (not me asking in the first place). Do you follow me?

Asking if I have $1 million dollars is asking me about my wealth. Or at least it's asking about it enough to the point where an honest answer could jeopardize my safety.

Let's put it this way -- I may or may not have $1 million, and if I do, I'll gladly enter into such an agreement.

You yourself said that you have 1 million dollars, by implication ("I'll... give you $1 million"). But since now you are essentially denying what you said previously ("I may or may not have $1 million"), it makes no sense to enter into any agreement with you, sorry...

Nothing personal

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