Topic: why do people agree to pay taxes? - page 108. (Read 50995 times)

Bitcoin helps you be in control of your wealth. It is also useful because of the technological aspect.

The US has been pushing SDRs through the IMF for some time now. SDRs came out of the Bretton-Woods System and where created as a fail safe for an expected USD shortfall in the 70s.

Interstingly, the US wants to bring China on board. The Chinese want no part as they stand to lose out because of all the US debt they hold. It's becoming clearer that the US cannot support the reserve status it has anymore, but is unwilling to relinquish the power the position provides. The rest of the World is becoming wise to the US antics.

I give it 15-20 years for full transition to something different. With things like BTC starting up in the late 2000s, I fully expect the US has been planning for the eventual end for a solid 10 years prior, maybe 20. Policy shifts take a lot of time, especially given the current one is ~100 years old.

The US may be feeding off of everyone else (I agree with you), but we have a large military. Might always makes it right no matter what. There is no morality in power. It is amoral by birthright. China will have no choice but to submit given the current economic devastation of its allies i.e. Russia/N. Korea/Pakistan (unless this changes).

Look for increasing manufacturing on the US home front and a larger return to made in America. The era of the US exporting dollars for a living is slowly grinding to a halt. The idea would be for the US to start selling China stuff and control the fiscal monetary unit used to trade as well. China will be a US-debt bagholder with the US no longer paying off "those" debts.

Losing 60-70% of one's worth seems like a pricey education, but to each his own

You and I both. I'd love to see BTC succeed from both an economic standpoint and a personal one. BTC could be the vehicle that finally educates people regarding how the financial world works and gives them their voice back in how it all plays out in the future.

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Let's see...  You've joined this forum on the fifth of January, BTC price bounced between $830 & $950 that day.

Good thing you've discovered Bitcoin (Just in time!), and opted out of USD 2%/yr inflationary death spiral

The two biggest holders of the U.S. debt are Japan and China. Japan is not an independent state, so it is effectively out of the equation (whoever begs to differ). China is the largest trading partner of the U.S., so it is very unlikely that it will drop its U.S. treasury holdings all of a sudden. In a sense, it can be said that right now the U.S. feeds on China (like it fed on Japan previously), but how long will it last?

This only becomes a problem when the holders of debt no longer agree to give it value as the debtor does. The World is financed by debt, US included. Everyone is a giant bag holder in a way. As long as everyone continues to see "value" in this debt based model, there isn't any problems per say.

Inflation alone is robbing people of spending power yearly with their fiat dollar, but nobody is complaining about this enough to change it. At the end of the day, 1 US dollar in 1900 is 1 US dollar today. That hasn't changed. The debt and deficit work this way too. All that matters is the # of USD you have, not what it is actually "worth." <--- This is the key to keeping it all going. Worth is derived from # today, not purchasing power.

The HOC will always stand, but I think a financial shift is coming that is going to try to sweep much of the debt under the rug at the expense of the America citizen via corporate America. They will place large demands on corporations who will generously 'pass' this down to their customers. When the system is at its limits, a "relief switch" will come in the form of new spending in a different (but nearly identical) system. Same meat, different grinder. The mass public will be none-the-wiser.

If they are both broke, what's going to happen next? How long will the House of Cards stand?

It's a "nice" feedback loop if you are the USG/FED. Collect taxes yearly to pay off some deficit interest and then print more money (QE) to target economic inflation rates. Depending on what type of QE program is going on (QE1 - mortgage securities/corporate credit risk or QE2 - Treasury purchases), different economic channels can be utilized to temporarily keep the House of Cards together in the event of having a debt interest burden that is way too high and is unable to be paid by the population alone (without extreme tax rates which case revolt). Just the typical robbing Peter to pay Paul or vice versa. They're both broke anyway.

How about no?  How about I come and live at your house, eat your food, and you make the rent optional?  It would certainly eliminate some unnecessary bureaucracy.

I thought money printing was used for paying the interest... Oh, wait, it is still called an inflation tax! The most ruthless one at that.

What I think few people on this thread realize is that the majority of collected taxes yearly in the US doesn't go to anything other than paying down the interest on the deficit. Spending for Gov't mandated projects (public transport, hospitals, buildings, roadways, etc.) is already built into a budgetary plan annually. These projects are also projected out many years as well. The money for these projects has already been approved and spent.

Taxes serve to pay down the interest, nothing more.

Good.  When everyone has a positive reason to fund their government there is no need to force people to pay taxes.  Your country can make its taxes optional, effectively making them "suggested donations", and thereby eliminate some unnecessary bureaucracy.

hence the need for truly representative government, hence we need to increase the size of the house and repeal the 17th.

Exactly, they are synthetic, man-made, virtual crimes, call it what you want

It is the govermnent scum that creates such rubbish to subdue and shaft the population...

Gun control, to subdue
Speed limits, to shaft

and so on, just those two categories. No victimless crime serves to protect. Sure enough, if only malum in se was prohibited (which really is the way libertarianism/anarchy makes sense) 90%+  of government employees would no longer be required.

Government is like fungus, it grows and produces toxins == shitty laws to steal our lifetime

The problem with taxes is not that they are paid to make free hospitals, etc possible. The main problem is their inefficient assignment and obscure expenditure on purposes that most people find dubious, e.g. military operations. And I don't even mention direct theft and fraud.

you people are crazy , and i dont know what countries you live in , but in my country we pay it so that we can have free hospitals , free schools , free roads. basically everything that needs to be there for everyone.

Lol, are we talking 'bout the same Bitcoin?

+1 

Exactly.  it's just like old fashioned money, except you aren't being continually robbed. 

Not depending on someone else to hold your money is progress not anarchy. People can still do everything they are doing now with bitcoin instead of fiat and that includes paying taxes.