Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? - page 16.

Mike Christ

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Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 02:56:30 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 02:50:06 PM

Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

Capitalism unaffected? Shocked

Taxes may be overspent and spent on wrong subjects, but people(myself included) never really want to pay for stuff that everybody (but not themselves specifically) benefits from and survives with. That's taxes for me.

Taxation for the good of all is not a capitalistic ideal. Why it exists in capitalistic societies is beyond me--well, that's a lie. Most of it is spent of frivolous BS, such as SS, war, and the very people who propagate the tax (after all, a government worker is paid by the government, who gets its paycheck from taxation. Ergo, those who make a living off tax, will always support tax.) There is nothing tax pays for that could not be paid for by the individual. Hell, even with taxes, you're still boned out of your cash; not only do I pay an officer's salary, I pay for him to give me a tickets and/or to take me to jail. Wicked! I always wanted to pay for someone to punish me.

Geddi

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Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 02:50:06 PM

Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

Capitalism unaffected? Shocked

Taxes may be overspent and spent on wrong subjects, but people(myself included) never really want to pay for stuff that everybody (but not themselves specifically) benefits from and survives with. Capitalism has that stuff too. That's taxes for me.

bonker

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Quote from: ArmoredDragon on April 09, 2013, 02:18:48 PM

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Bitcoin is anti-socialism as far as I can see. Thank f*ck!

myrkul

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Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 02:46:54 PM

Quote from: ArmoredDragon on April 09, 2013, 02:18:48 PM

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Not only socialism is undermined by tax evasion.

Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

Geddi

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Quote from: ArmoredDragon on April 09, 2013, 02:18:48 PM

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Not only socialism is undermined by tax evasion.

ArmoredDragon

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I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Geddi

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Quote from: Minor Miner on April 09, 2013, 02:04:40 PM

Quote from: antibanker on April 09, 2013, 01:58:32 PM

fuck one can stupidass

what? pull the dick out of your mouth before you speak so we can attempt to understand you.

I guess he is a bit confused since Thatcher's death..

myrkul

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Quote from: Minor Miner on April 09, 2013, 02:04:40 PM

Quote from: antibanker on April 09, 2013, 01:58:32 PM

fuck one can stupidass

what? pull the dick out of your mouth before you speak so we can attempt to understand you.

I think he's suggesting fucking a can. I don't recommend it, most have sharp edges.

Minor Miner

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Quote from: antibanker on April 09, 2013, 01:58:32 PM

fuck one can stupidass

what? pull the dick out of your mouth before you speak so we can attempt to understand you.

myrkul

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Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:58:45 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 01:53:56 PM

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:45:24 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 01:36:32 PM

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:34:42 PM

I can't see that it is not a crime to be unemployed in a capitalistic society. I'd rather work in a gulag than starve to death while being spit on by the employed.

Do you have no friends? No relatives? No support structure whatsoever? If so, I feel for you.

I have friends, relatives and enough money to fill a pool with cash. I just don't like the fact that if you are assumed 'not good enough' in a capitalistic society and have problems getting a job, you can get screwed very fast.
But then again, socialism has its drawbacks too.

Like being screwed very fast if you're "too good," and forced to support those who aren't.

Keep in mind that Capitalism allows for entrepreneurship, and one can, if unable to find work for someone else, always go into business for one's self. There are some fields which are very low cost, even free, to enter. Of course, State regulations do tend to increase the cost (and/or risk) of entering even those fields, which is why I'm anti-State.

You are right. There's freedom. Freedom to do think and like whatever you want. I love that freedom. But I've seen many sides of the medal, and I think there are things socialism can offer which capitalism can't. Anti-State is a big word, I'd rather see a State with the power of socialism harnessed by some open-source democracy.

No thanks, I've seen the prosperity capitalism produces, and the widespread poverty socialism and voting yourself money produces, and I'll take capitalism.

antibanker

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look at fucking Thatcher, she talked the same bs and screwed over her country in the process.

yet these idiots keep talking her way.

Geddi

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Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 01:53:56 PM

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:45:24 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 01:36:32 PM

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:34:42 PM

I can't see that it is not a crime to be unemployed in a capitalistic society. I'd rather work in a gulag than starve to death while being spit on by the employed.

Do you have no friends? No relatives? No support structure whatsoever? If so, I feel for you.

I have friends, relatives and enough money to fill a pool with cash. I just don't like the fact that if you are assumed 'not good enough' in a capitalistic society and have problems getting a job, you can get screwed very fast.
But then again, socialism has its drawbacks too.

Like being screwed very fast if you're "too good," and forced to support those who aren't.

Keep in mind that Capitalism allows for entrepreneurship, and one can, if unable to find work for someone else, always go into business for one's self. There are some fields which are very low cost, even free, to enter. Of course, State regulations do tend to increase the cost (and/or risk) of entering even those fields, which is why I'm anti-State.

You are right. There's freedom. Freedom to do think and like whatever you want. I love that freedom. But I've seen many sides of the medal, and I think there are things socialism can offer which capitalism can't. Anti-State is a big word, I'd rather see a State with the power of socialism harnessed by some open-source democracy.

antibanker

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fuck one can stupidass

myrkul

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Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:45:24 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 01:36:32 PM

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:34:42 PM

I can't see that it is not a crime to be unemployed in a capitalistic society. I'd rather work in a gulag than starve to death while being spit on by the employed.

Do you have no friends? No relatives? No support structure whatsoever? If so, I feel for you.

I have friends, relatives and enough money to fill a pool with cash. I just don't like the fact that if you are assumed 'not good enough' in a capitalistic society and have problems getting a job, you can get screwed very fast.
But then again, socialism has its drawbacks too.

Like being screwed very fast if you're "too good," and forced to support those who aren't.

Keep in mind that Capitalism allows for entrepreneurship, and one can, if unable to find work for someone else, always go into business for one's self. There are some fields which are very low cost, even free, to enter. Of course, State regulations do tend to increase the cost (and/or risk) of entering even those fields, which is why I'm anti-State.

Geddi

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Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 01:36:32 PM

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:34:42 PM

I can't see that it is not a crime to be unemployed in a capitalistic society. I'd rather work in a gulag than starve to death while being spit on by the employed.

Do you have no friends? No relatives? No support structure whatsoever? If so, I feel for you.

I have friends, relatives and enough money to fill a pool with cash. I just don't like the fact that if you are assumed 'not good enough' in a capitalistic society and have problems getting a job, you can get screwed very fast.
But then again, socialism has its drawbacks too.

Minor Miner

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Quote from: SgtSpike on September 08, 2011, 01:52:38 PM

Quote from: Ekaros on September 08, 2011, 01:38:44 PM

I don't understand, maybe I'm just too young with whole cold-war mentality born just around collapse. Sure communism didn't work out very well.

But, I do prefer some socialism to pure capitalism. So I don't realy get this whole fear of it in USA, it can't be all bad or is it? Can someone explain it to me?

It's not a fear - it's a reality. If people get less benefit from working, they will be less likely to work. Less work means a less productive country and more freeloaders.

Just look at google. If I start typing in the words "If I quit", the words that follow for the top 3 of 5 auto-entries are along the lines of "will I get unemployment". People are already trying to game the system by not working, but still collecting a paycheck through unemployment.

In an ideal world (in my mind), people would reap what they sow. If they don't work, they don't get squat. If they work hard, and work to ensure they have more than basic labor skills, then they will have plenty to provide for themselves and their family, without having to leech off other people. If people had heart (which I know some do, myself included), then they would feel inclined to help those who are down on luck and deserve a helping hand, but it should be completely OPTIONAL and VOLUNTARY. I shouldn't be forced to give my tax dollars to a drug addict who doesn't even have to take a drug test to collect unemployment.

Wow, I think this is the first time I completely agree with the sarge.

myrkul

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Quote from: kokjo on April 09, 2013, 01:19:19 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 11:10:48 AM

Quote from: kokjo on April 09, 2013, 05:44:46 AM

in a capitalistic/liberal/anarchistic/whatever society i would not be able to study math, because i would not have the money to do so.

https://www.khanacademy.org/

their lectures are only on first year university level... but some of it is useful.

But clearly you can study mathematics, all the way up to first year University level, for free. So to say that you would be unable to study at all is a bit disingenuous, is it not?

Quote from: Geddi on April 09, 2013, 01:34:42 PM

Quote from: vampire on April 09, 2013, 10:54:36 AM

This is BS. Really do you think a lot of people love to clean dirty restrooms? Do you know how they solved this problem in Soviet Union? Oh you don't want to work, now either clean the shit or go to a gulag and work until death. It was a crime to be unemployed.

I can't see that it is not a crime to be unemployed in a capitalistic society. I'd rather work in a gulag than starve to death while being spit on by the employed.

Do you have no friends? No relatives? No support structure whatsoever? If so, I feel for you.

vampire

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Quote from: kokjo on April 09, 2013, 01:19:19 PM

Quote from: myrkul on April 09, 2013, 11:10:48 AM

Quote from: kokjo on April 09, 2013, 05:44:46 AM

in a capitalistic/liberal/anarchistic/whatever society i would not be able to study math, because i would not have the money to do so.

https://www.khanacademy.org/

their lectures are only on first year university level... but some of it is useful.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/find-by-topic/

Geddi

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Quote from: vampire on April 09, 2013, 10:54:36 AM

This is BS. Really do you think a lot of people love to clean dirty restrooms? Do you know how they solved this problem in Soviet Union? Oh you don't want to work, now either clean the shit or go to a gulag and work until death. It was a crime to be unemployed.

I can't see that it is not a crime to be unemployed in a capitalistic society. I'd rather work in a gulag than starve to death while being spit on by the employed.

antibanker

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Quote from: bonker on April 09, 2013, 10:56:10 AM

Because they don't like clueless authoritarian shithead bureaucrats telling them to what to think

such as Ben Shalom Bernanke, the jew

Topic: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much? - page 16. (Read 34853 times)