Topic: Why do people think income tax is ok? - page 16. (Read 17853 times)

I don't believe it would, either more cheaply or efficiently. What happens to the people who can't afford all the services I mentioned above?

Who do you think pays for these services now? By the look of our governments' balance sheets, it's future generations.

A free market could deliver those services cheaper and more efficiently, and we'd all be better off.



I believe it will help in the long run, as we break our dependence on the financial oligopoly.

Most people won't have any wealth anyway when they're expected to pay for everything like roads, police, hospitals, schooling and their garbage being collected so it won't matter, so you might as well be living in a jungle because that's what it'll turn into.

Yes, agreed.

But then wealth confiscation isn't really a problem for 3.5 billion members of the human race it would seem - the 85 richest individuals on the planet have as much wealth as one half of the worlds population put together - http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/20/oxfam-85-richest-people-half-of-the-world - (one hell of a problem for those 85 lucky bastards though eh ? - most of whom will be from the USA btw ? ?  )

Just as a matter of interest, how do people here believe that BTC will either improve or exacerbate this situation ?

I'm assuming of course that:-

       a) you view this inequality as a problem in the first place  

  and      b) you believe BTC will have any influence one way or the other.

Yes, we agree that having no wealth is a good way to protect yourself from wealth confiscation. Just like being dead protects you from murder.

They don't have taxes here :-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle.

You could try that I suppose.








Indeed - some are fortunate and priviliged and some are not.

Some get to send their kids to Eton at £30,000 per annum, and some don't. Such people it is that are usually the ones to baulk at income tax - as their children don't actually need a state education thankyou very much. Neither do they use the NHS, public transport etc etc.

I'll bite!

My vision of a world without tax consists of loose confederations of co-operatives. Some of these co-operatives would be responsible for whole urban centres (cities, etc.). Some would be much more local: neighborhoods, blocks of flats, school districts. Direct democracy would select and vote on every issue. Everybody who voted for some kind of action (such as "we need to build a new highway connecting us to town B) would then be obliged to pay for a share to get the work done (a crowdfunding system). People would also choose which contractor got to build the roads using a voting system.

In my view, manufacturing and farming will be decentralised again, as everything devolves into smaller political entities. Technology will offset the loss of efficiency-of-scale: 3D printing, hydroponics, renewables.

Cryptocurrencies and the Internet will be essential tools for organising and running the co-operatives.

I don't think this political system is viable in a world of huge standing armies and globalization. It will get eaten alive, but it's a nice thought.

Just because I don't have an acceptable answer doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

You ever hear of the phrase "devil's advocate"?

It's where you argue in favor of a position you are against. To do this well, you have to find supporting research, etc. My debate teacher in school made us pick a side of an argument and then he would switch it.

Let's see you try. I'm switching your argument from pro-tax to anti-tax. Can you do it?

Indeed, people couldn't afford it now, because they are being robbed blind by taxation and receive effectively nothing in return, unless you count civil rights violations.

  at the bolded, but most of what you said is laughable. I can tell you now, most people wont have enough money to pay for insurance for medical and fire and to pay the police etc when they need them. You'd need to hire accountants just to pay for all this crap. Or, you could just pay a fair amount of tax every month and all this is already covered. You people seem to want to destroy something completely and rebuild it because there are small flaws in it. You don't mind paying for all this stuff individually to corporations, but to pay it to the government is diabolical?

I think you have to gradually wean off the system of taxation. America has existed longer without the 16th Amendment than with it.

People think you need taxes for roads. Not income taxes as there is a tax on fuel already. However, I would go so far as to say that businesses have a vested interest in making sure there is good access to their locations so those businesses who build and maintain access will thrive. Just look at any major mall and you will often see roads that are maintained by the mall. Home builders create the roads in their subdivisions, voluntary HOAs can maintain those roads and some do.

Police. Many people don't need them if they were to take it upon themselves to procure the means of defending their lives and property from criminals. Investigations into crimes can be conducted by insurance companies, private investigators, etc.

Prisons. Wouldn't need 90% of them if we weren't locking people up for plants. Anyone convicted of heinous crimes like murder, rape, etc., could be executed in rapid fashion instead of being warehoused for years.

Fire. In many areas, people pay to be protected by a fire department. They get a bill for it. I suspect that if there were no government-operated fire departments, private fire departments would fill the void. People can either pay them directly or take out an insurance policy on their home. Since many lenders require insurance, the vast majority of mortgaged properties would be covered against loss. Those insurance companies may opt to pay for fire protection.

and so on, and so on....

You have to take small parts of supposed government responsibilities and return it to the private market for a solution. Then you drop the tax by the associated amount of savings. Eventually, you eliminate tax altogether on citizens. Import taxes can continue to exist because companies in other nations voluntarily ship goods for imports.

I don't think people said it was the only way, but what's the better way, Mr Think Outside The Box? 

To assume that taxation is the only solution to the problem is akin to shutting your mind off to looking for other possible solutions.

Too many people spouting that taxes are a necessary evil and not enough saying "isn't there a better way?" I challenge everyone to think outside the box.

Because it distracts from the fact that the truly rich aren't getting taxed on theirs.

In the US, capital gains taxes are based on income tax rate. So, if you have no earned income then your capital gains rate is zero.

It's likely this was why Mitt Romney would not disclose more of his finances from the years when he wasn't Governor of MA and his wife was ill. It would have exposed that he made millions but paid no taxes because he didn't get a W-2 or 1099.

What do you mean "not at all?" What he said is true...


I'd rather keep the all money I earn and pay for great services that I choose - services that I need, or services that benefit others.

Key word here is choose.

What do you mean "not really"? What he said is true. And there's an answer to your issues. Make taxes fairer. Maybe introduce a flat tax or only VAT. I don't agree with penalising the rich or punishing the poor. Everybody chips in a fair around and what they can afford and everyone benefits. Would you not mind paying taxes if you had great services and healthcare / education?

Not really - income tax punishes inovative and hard-working people. It's unjust, as it takes more from the ones who earn more, so it promotes equality and people are not the same. Some are smart, some are stupid, some are lazy and some aren't. Treating all people in the same way is a communist crap.

Now let me ask you where does your VAT go if you pay it? And excise tax? Health insurance? Property tax? Customs tax? Road tax? If this is not enough to fund services?

Furthermore, we additionaly pay for most services like energy, sewage, water, security, education.

Not at all.

Property taxes.... I think homeless is the only viable option.

Public, shared services cost money
Income tax helps fund it