Topic: Why do people think income tax is ok? - page 20. (Read 17878 times)

I think these people who want to do away with taxes and government are being selfish too. Would people really pay for stuff if they could get it for free or weren’t forced to pay it? If my landlord came to me and said "I've seen the error of my ways and don't want to be a greedy capitalist pig any more; just pay when you want and what you feel is a fair price" my desire to pay him the current going rate if any at all may start to evaporate. I'm sure this sentiment would infect a lot of other people too. Same goes for healthcare and other services. Most people wouldn't chip in for this if there was no commitment to do so.

I wouldn't. Taxes are needed because we live in partly capitalist society. It's not all bad, but it's not all good either. I know that it's very likely that I won't be at the top. So I don't want to end up like those outsourced workers... Many forms of taxation are needed to provide the services.

So, I'm selfish and believe income tax is better for me and majority than no tax... Because, it's clear what real options of people has historically been.

Hahahahha.

I'd really love it if some of these anti-government people could offer a working solution. I'd love to try it. I don't think they think things though half of the time.

Yes, because clothes are a fundamental part of the economy. If people do not have clothes, nobody will go to work, people could get hypothermia and that puts a burden on the health care which is paid for by taxes. Nobody would go out and spend money which would destroy the retail industries.

Basically clothes are needed for an economy to exist.

Whenever someone gets the crazy idea of getting rid of taxes the first thing to come up is "what about the clothes?". Because only government can provide clothes. Imagine if corporations were in charge of clothes. We would all be at their mercy. A company could buy all of the clothes stores around you and refuse to let you buy from them, then you would be stuck at home, naked. What if people cannot afford clothes for work? How would they be able to go out and get a job with no clothes in the first place?

If you think clothes should be privatized you obviously hate the poor and the children and want them to be naked. Which also makes you a pedophile, you sick bastard.

If you do not like taxes then you are a pedophile.

It's for good causes; without tax, nothing could ever get done.  Tax is a necessary evil when tax money is used for evil.  If I have to pay my taxes, so do you: what's fair is fair.  If you don't pay your taxes, X will suffer Y.  People who don't pay their taxes are selfish.

Something along those lines; it doesn't have to be logical to be a popular belief; as long as you fear it enough, you can believe in anything.

That has to be a (bad) joke.

Yes. There may be exceptions in Switzerland or South Korea, but in most countries, schools are terrible, mixing good kids with bad ones, and not teaching them what they need to learn to become responsible adults, but what national politicians or unions have chosen for them. At worst, that means turning them into puppets, and at best good citizens, but in all cases into people who would be totally unable to live outside the safe legal, and rigid environment of their home country.

Its ok if the government doesn't "waste" the taxes..

It is that. I'm trying to demonstrate that what we do right now isn't so rigid. And what system we could change to if we went self-governing tomorrow.

But it's perfectly possible for people to break out of that system, if they can look after their own services. If they can go 100% independent, then why would the rest of the locality care? Local government now doesn't want to become irrelevant, the politicians lose their jobs if so. But the people contributing to running their own community would take it as a sign that the day would come when they could forget their new (unpaid) role. So, I'm trying to illustrate a transition period, because it's no good telling people who can't get past the current system on an imaginitive level that we'll all become 100% self determined straight away, it's just too unrealistic no matter the scenario.

your government uses your tax money to buy your cloths for you?

Garbage service, TV, fire departments, food, clothing, electricity.

Wouldn't that be just another form of government with direct democracy? And would everyone really have the time to go in-depth to all forms of services they need? And isn't getting people to pay in fund still taxation?

The plan is to pass the responsibility onto me. And you. Everyone.

First we get a money system that doesn't rip us off all day until we die (bitcoin, CHECK)

Then we've got more time on our hands to organise locally. We take a stake in our communities by making the decisions ourselves, not voting for someone who does that for us.

We organise all the local services we need ourselves. Contract a company to collect waste (like your local government do now). Contract a company to maintain the local roads. Contract a company to look after water and sewage. Get all people in the area to pay into a fund to get it done (easier when the value of money is no longer evaporating into bankers pockets on a daily basis). Use a bitcoin wallet with multi-signature, where it only gets spent when a minimum number of people will sign it off.

Choose staff for the local schools, police and hospitals yourself. Even if you're only choosing the managerial staff, at least then you've got more oversight and more input than you do now.

And all the people that are doing all this organising will get to know each other. They'll get to know strengths and weaknesses, biases and . Then you'll know what's going on in your community, and where all the money went. You have no hope of anything like that from your local government now. And even the local government people get paid a tidy salary, this is such a waste when the only reason to have them there is that the sconomic system is tilted to keep everyone else too busy with their own day job.

And think about that, these people are professionals, literally dedicated to looking after running local amenities, and this is the best they can do? On their more than decent salaries? Come on. I think we (literally, WE) can do better.

Don't forget war!

Hilarious

while there is monetary governments there will be taxes. Because there is no other way. Maybe we need some other type of system. Maybe with out money.
Maybe something like resource based system or something else.

No, I'm not suggesting that's the only way. What are you suggesting exactly? Why do taxes always have to be 'theft'? Why not consider them 'donations'? Don't want to 'donate'? Don't pay the taxes (or 'donations') or move to somewhere else. Nobody is forcing you. If you want to play the game then you have to play by the rules, unless you can change the rules. This just seems like people want services but are too cheap to pay for them or are operating under the assumption that you are forced to pay for them when you're not. And if you are willing to pay for these services then you just essentially want to call taxes by something else or the government by something else. And what do you suggest as an alternative plan? Tell me how you would make this work? Why do people assume that just passing on the responsibility to someone else will solve all the problems as long as these people do not call themselves politicians or the government? And do you expect these 'entrepreneurs' you speak of to work for free or do we pay them? These entrepreneurs will essentially become synonymous with government / politicians anyway, then we'll've gone full circle. What happens if you don't pay these entrepreneurs for services rendered? Will they send the bailiffs round? Will they press charges and send you to prison ('institutionalised violence'?) when you can't pay or even worse make you a debt slave? You haven't offered a viable alternative here at all.

I don't know, I guess entrepreneurs will solve these problems. Are you suggesting that institutionalised violence is the only way? We can't help the poor without theft?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-as-a-new-way-to-embrace-taxes-381420

I actually had some success using this approach.
It's closer to crowdfunding/voting than taxes. But it should cover the needs for hospitals and roads, and shut down nukes (at least, if people are sensitive enough).

Public schools have failed everywhere? Really...