Why do people think income tax is ok? - page 17.

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on January 16, 2014, 11:23:34 AM

Guybrush is right. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can become a homeless anarchist. To avoid VAT on food, eat out of bins, or non-endangered animals like pigeons. Or earthworms.

Then you will anger the vegan anarchists. And you don't need to be homeless.

Holdaaja

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 16, 2014, 11:22:54 AM

Quote from: Holdaaja on January 16, 2014, 11:09:14 AM

Taxes suck :/

Would they suck if they provided all the services you want or need and weren’t spent of needless wars and laundered to big business? How they're currently corruptly spent sucks, but we as a people need to change the game. It can be done but not so easily because most people are idiots who don't care nor do they want to be disturbed from their Saturday morning breakfast shows and soaps, so they just pay their taxes and get on with it.

Yeah, there is much for improvement.

Carlton Banks

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Guybrush is right. If you don't want to pay taxes, you can become a homeless anarchist. To avoid VAT on food, eat out of bins, or non-endangered animals like pigeons. Or earthworms.

If you don't want your money taxed, just don't have any money! They can't tax your clothes, or your straggly beard. Well, at least not in this century. Why didn't we think of this before! Guybrush is the anarchist philosopher of the new age!

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: Holdaaja on January 16, 2014, 11:09:14 AM

Taxes suck :/

Would they suck if they provided all the services you want or need and weren’t spent of needless wars and laundered to big business? How they're currently corruptly spent sucks, but we as a people need to change the game. It can be done but not so easily because most people are idiots who don't care nor do they want to be disturbed from their Saturday morning breakfast shows and soaps, so they just pay their taxes and get on with it.

Holdaaja

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Taxes suck :/

bitlancr

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 16, 2014, 08:37:43 AM

Go wherever you want and eat the grass and live under the stars and you can pay no taxes and you truly will be free (but I'd check the local laws first just to be safe).

OK, let's say I do that.

Now some friends of mine also decide they want to be free, and come join me under the stars.

Now some friends of friends get in on the act. We specialise - some build houses, some catch game, some forage for fruit. We start trading with each other, using rare stones as tokens of value.

We have children, and others join, our population grows.

And what point do you think the government would butt in and start demanding taxes? When would freedom become tyranny?

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: PrintMule on January 16, 2014, 08:24:17 AM

If you insist that you're not simply trolling, then please provide an example of "true 0% tax" country, so I can pack my suitcases.

In what way would I be trolling? I hope you're not trolling. Do some research. I don't know if there's many countries that will lock you up for avoiding any taxes unless you get yourself into a situation where they are owed. Go wherever you want and eat the grass and live under the stars and you can pay no taxes and you truly will be free (but I'd check the local laws first just to be safe). You might not be comfortable sometimes but I can assure you no police with guns will be after you unless you start doing illegal shit. But my guess is you'd rather stay at home infront of the comfort of your computer and modestly-sized TV and keep paying to play The Game, right?

PrintMule

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If you insist that you're not simply trolling, then please provide an example of "true 0% tax" country, so I can pack my suitcases.

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: PrintMule on January 16, 2014, 07:15:51 AM

It's funny for me to listen about big tv's

as I'm quite poor. Also that bit about "tax treshhold". The only tax threshold we have is under 0 EUR, lol.

As a kid, child, after your birth - you already have to purchase an ID/Passport. Which costs money. Which is taxed. You cannot be fed with simply water or air. Again - taxed. An etc.

You cannot avoid buying things without breaking the law. Therefore - you cannot avoid tax. And even if you're living on welfare or something, you still pay the tax. And other people pay tax so that you could pay yours. There's no country without a tax. You can skip on some taxes by being a "world citizen" (which is almost impossible to become) or changing your country every X months.

Try to renounce your citizenship, whichever country you may live in. It's impossible. They got you by the balls/vulva from your birth. Google "value of life" for some info on why we are a bunch of slaves, basically.

You're being incredibly naive and close-minded. You're just assuming it's impossible and it's not. Tell me, does a child purchase a passport or do his parents purchase it? You're not even forced to pay for a passport in this country but I don't know about yours. Maybe that child grows up in a travelling community or hippie tax-resisting commune anyway. And arguing about children is ridiculous. We're talking about adults here who can make an informed decision to not pay taxes and they can. You are not forced, but maybe you feel like you are, but you can give up paying tax at any time. Move to a country where there is 0 tax if you refuse to pay or live off the earth which is your choice. Many hardcore anti-establishment types do this. Next you'll be telling me you cannot be truly vegan or anarchist. If you want live in a tent and eat wild /foraged food and make your own clothes you can, but I get it, you want a relatively comfy life so you pay your little bit of taxes, but if you want out there are several options available for you.

PrintMule

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It's funny for me to listen about big tv's

as I'm quite poor. Also that bit about "tax treshhold". The only tax threshold we have is under 0 EUR, lol.

As a kid, child, after your birth - you already have to purchase an ID/Passport. Which costs money. Which is taxed. You cannot be fed with simply water or air. Again - taxed. An etc.

You cannot avoid buying things without breaking the law. Therefore - you cannot avoid tax. And even if you're living on welfare or something, you still pay the tax. And other people pay tax so that you could pay yours. There's no country without a tax. You can skip on some taxes by being a "world citizen" (which is almost impossible to become) or changing your country every X months.

Try to renounce your citizenship, whichever country you may live in. It's impossible. They got you by the balls/vulva from your birth. Google "value of life" for some info on why we are a bunch of slaves, basically.

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 16, 2014, 04:40:57 AM

Taxation is voluntary. You're confused if you think you have no other option than to pay it. I suppose if you play a game of Monopoly you're forced to go to jail and pay fines, right? Yes, if you play the game, but nobody is forcing you, you can quit any time, nor do you even have to start playing the game in the first place, but if you want to keep arguing with me and 'pumping up my postcount' so be it. What's your reason for posting nonsense?

It's not voluntary. You buy something in the shop - you pay tax. You get your salary - you pay tax automatically. There's no option of not paying tax. Quitting the game = suicide?

EDIT: not starting the game = ? Self-abortion from inside the womb?

Buying the TV is voluntary. You're not forced to buy one. And if you want a TV buy a secondhand one. Either don't earn any money or chose a job that pays under the tax threshold or move to place with no income taxes. You're not taxed as child from the womb. Quitting the game is not suicide. Quit the rat-race and playing their game by their rules. You willingly choose to live this life and you can choose to get out of it without suicide, but of course, people want to live in their comfy houses in-front of their big TVs whilst pretending to be anarchists and moaning at the government, yet they willingly pay their wages. Up to you what you do. You are not forced. You willingly give this money up. You can willingly and legally refuse to pay it as well. You can't have it both ways unless you want to break the law, but that is also your choice.

PrintMule

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 16, 2014, 04:40:57 AM

Taxation is voluntary. You're confused if you think you have no other option than to pay it. I suppose if you play a game of Monopoly you're forced to go to jail and pay fines, right? Yes, if you play the game, but nobody is forcing you, you can quit any time, nor do you even have to start playing the game in the first place, but if you want to keep arguing with me and 'pumping up my postcount' so be it. What's your reason for posting nonsense?

It's not voluntary. You buy something in the shop - you pay tax. You get your salary - you pay tax automatically. There's no option of not paying tax. Quitting the game = suicide?

Not starting the game = ? Self-abortion from inside the womb?

Quote from: Kouye on January 15, 2014, 07:35:27 PM

Another, completely opposite approach, would be to forget about taxes, and just pay for what you use + related projects tied to it (which you voted for).

For example:

You enjoy using the airport close to your home, you pay to maintain it each time you use it. But you also pay for a second related layer that all other users (including you) have decided to tie (by BTC-voting) to airport taxes. Such as space exploration, transport innovation, etc.

You are reassured by this excellent hospital in your vinicity, everytime you need to use it, you pay to maintain it, and also pay for related stuff (which you voted for), such as doctors in hostile zones, free medecines for poor people, etc.

You fancy that nice highway to get to your job quickly? You pay when you use it, and it covers both the price to maintain it, and also maintain/create new roads in the countryside, because you decided to vote for that related project.

I've always had similar thinking. I do not want my tax money to be spent on X Y an Z. We should have an online system, where people could distribute their tax money, at least 50% of that tax money. And the government should be LOBBYING YOU to distribute money to their liking.

guybrushthreepwood

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People voluntarily hold bitcoins despite being 'raped' by miners who brutally tax all the holders with an inflating supply.

If you choose to allow yourself to be 'raped' willingly then it's not rape. You're not forced to use Bitcoin. Why don't you create a coin that is free to use for all and see how many miners help you out then?

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: Mike Christ on January 15, 2014, 06:31:09 PM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 15, 2014, 03:07:10 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 15, 2014, 03:01:54 PM

Please stop with the idea that income tax is voluntary.
It's correct to say that you don't pay tax if you live in the streets spending your days begging and farting, but for normal people living a normal working life, there's no choice.

There's always a choice. You can live a comfortable and worry-free existence without paying taxes and have a roof over your head. And I don't know what you mean by 'normal'? The brainwashed materialistic naive masses who think that it has to be this way and that you must conform as there's no other option normal?

Are you just trying to pump your post count to get the ad reward or are you serious? Even the most ardent statists will tell you that taxation is not voluntary; it's not supposed to be, and that's how they like it. You're either very confused or really need to keep posting nonsense for your sig.

Ah, the old you're only posting because of your sig approach. Petty. I would argue this all day regardless of a sig deal and regardless of what you may or may not think.

Taxation is voluntary. You're confused if you think you have no other option than to pay it. I suppose if you play a game of Monopoly you're forced to go to jail and pay fines, right? Yes, if you play the game, but nobody is forcing you, you can quit any time, nor do you even have to start playing the game in the first place, but if you want to keep arguing with me and 'pumping up my postcount' so be it. What's your reason for posting nonsense?

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Another, completely opposite approach, would be to forget about taxes, and just pay for what you use + related projects tied to it (which you voted for).

For example:

You enjoy using the airport close to your home, you pay to maintain it each time you use it. But you also pay for a second related layer that all other users (including you) have decided to tie (by BTC-voting) to airport taxes. Such as space exploration, transport innovation, etc.

You are reassured by this excellent hospital in your vinicity, everytime you need to use it, you pay to maintain it, and also pay for related stuff (which you voted for), such as doctors in hostile zones, free medecines for poor people, etc.

You fancy that nice highway to get to your job quickly? You pay when you use it, and it covers both the price to maintain it, and also maintain/create new roads in the countryside, because you decided to vote for that related project.

I'm just thinking aloud, don't mind me. Grin

Mike Christ

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Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 15, 2014, 03:07:10 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 15, 2014, 03:01:54 PM

Please stop with the idea that income tax is voluntary.
It's correct to say that you don't pay tax if you live in the streets spending your days begging and farting, but for normal people living a normal working life, there's no choice.

There's always a choice. You can live a comfortable and worry-free existence without paying taxes and have a roof over your head. And I don't know what you mean by 'normal'? The brainwashed materialistic naive masses who think that it has to be this way and that you must conform as there's no other option normal?

Are you just trying to pump your post count to get the ad reward or are you serious? Even the most ardent statists will tell you that taxation is not voluntary; it's not supposed to be, and that's how they like it. You're either very confused or really need to keep posting nonsense for your sig.

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: countryfree on January 15, 2014, 03:01:54 PM

Please stop with the idea that income tax is voluntary.
It's correct to say that you don't pay tax if you live in the streets spending your days begging and farting, but for normal people living a normal working life, there's no choice.

There's always a choice. You can live a comfortable and worry-free existence without paying taxes and have a roof over your head. And I don't know what you mean by 'normal'? The brainwashed materialistic naive masses who think that it has to be this way and that you must conform as there's no other option normal?

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Please stop with the idea that income tax is voluntary.
It's correct to say that you don't pay tax if you live in the streets spending your days begging and farting, but for normal people living a normal working life, there's no choice.

davedx

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Ahhh, the complexities of the social contract. Undecided

guybrushthreepwood

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Quote from: bitlancr on January 15, 2014, 10:01:09 AM

OK, I'll explain this in detail.

You claim tax is voluntary because it can be avoided - or logically speaking - if something can be avoided, it is voluntary. Let's call this proposition P.

Rape can be avoided by staying in your house your whole life. So by logical inference on P, rape is voluntary. Let's call this result Q.

We both agree that Q is absurd. Therefore, assuming the other premises are sound, P must be false.

In summary, the basis of your argument (P) is false, so your argument is invalid. Tax is involuntary.

I genuinely hope this helps. If not, I'd suggest some reading on the rules of logic.

That's not my logic and yours is not relevant to this regardless of how you want to spin it.

And rape cannot be avoided by staying in your house. You can be raped from within the house, or somebody can break in, but this is irrelevant because being raped and paying or not paying taxes are completely different. I don't know why we're even comparing rape and slavery to wilfully paying or not paying taxes /being in un/employment.

Quote from: shawshankinmate37927 on January 15, 2014, 10:13:00 AM

Quote from: shawshankinmate37927 on January 15, 2014, 05:13:47 AM

Quote from: guybrushthreepwood on January 14, 2014, 05:30:38 PM

Sorry, I wasn't trying to confuse you, but you kept answering a question that I wasn't asking. I was just clarifying a simple, straight-forward question. I was asking about not paying taxes when a tax obligation has been incurred and the taxer is aware that you have incurred a tax obligation. Of course you can avoid incurring a tax obligation, or take measures to prevent the taxer from realizing that a tax obligation has been incurred, but that isn't the same as refusing to pay a tax.

You didn't confuse me, but nice try. And why were you asking such a ridiculously stupid question? That's like saying the government is forcing you to not commit murder, yet they are because they'll come and arrest you with guns when you’ve committed the crime of murder. Idiotic proposition.

You are still very confused. I wasn't making a proposition. I was asking a simple question in response to your proposition. Only an idiot would struggle with such a simple question.

Only an idiot would ask such a stupid question, but I guess you like trolling, right? Your original question was What does happen when you don't pay taxes? and I answered that several times in almost every possible permutation. I even answered the stupid question of what happens when you don't pay taxes that you owe, but that's obvious, just like saying what will happen when you murder somebody.

Topic: Why do people think income tax is ok? - page 17. (Read 17878 times)