Topic: Why I wouldn't buy Ledger Nano S ever again? - page 2. (Read 1337 times)

I don't know what you mean, but ledger is even worse than casinos.
They received money from shitcoins like solana to list them, they supported them and spent time to support them them and add in their wallets.
People transferred and exchanged coins in Ledger and now they can't use or move them from ledger.

This looks like a clear promotion to me:
They spend a lot of money on advertisement and bear market probably affected them like other crypto companies, but they need more money to promote other shitcoins.
Look carefully who is going to give them money, if they ever release this information publicly.

If I may switch gears for a bit; any body hear about Ledger seeking more funding?  According to a couple of articles that came out yesterday, they're in talks with investment firms looking for $100 million.  Not sure if this is a sign that they're in trouble or that they're planning on some other gimmick to lure more newbies.

Article here.

I have no information about the hack and what happened with Solana, but the issues with this particular network is certainly not something that Ledger or any other HW manufacturer is to be blamed for. While updating one of my threads about withdrawal fees/amounts on crypto casinos, I noticed that withdrawals for Solana was disabled on a popular casino the other day. If I made some more checks, I am sure I would find other casinos that have done the same thing.

There is one more reason not to buy any of the ledger hardware wallets (including Nano S) for storing shitcoins, in light with recent collapse/hack of Solana.
People keep tweeting this would not happen if you had coins stored on hardware wallets like ledger, but ledger conveniently decided to stop ALL Solana services so you can't move coins even if you want to do it.

Solana account is Disconnected on Ledger Live and showing 504 error.
Ledger customer support officially confirmed that due to the extreme circumstances surrounding the widespread hack on the Solana network, their Solana explorer is experiencing outages and it's not up-to-date.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/wf7x9x/solana_account_disconnected_on_ledger/


https://status.ledger.com/
https://web.archive.org/web/20220803204305/https://status.ledger.com/

If you look at history of their Ledger Live app you could mostly see news about new tokens, like 100 cardano tokens added, etc.
You are better of storing bunch of bananas in secure vault, than using any hardware wallets to store shitcoins.

Yes I agree with you on this, ledger invested a lot of money on marketing and they collected millions from various companies.
This is what makes me be even more suspicious about ledger, because I don't know who exactly sent them money and for what.
I do know they are receive all customer/user stats as third party, like ledger revealed recently in their ledger live privacy policy.

I wouldn't say it's superior, and it certainly needs some updating, but it's better than Ledger and everything is open source, just like Bitcoin.

Sure, but question is can you really use all their previously discontinued devices and how...
You need to go with some shenanigans and use other ancient outdated software wallets just to make a transaction or send coins.
I could say the same thing for old Coldcard hardware wallets, I can probably use them but they are not safe and can be exploited.
I can also use win98, winXP or win vista, it works

To their credit; the devices don't become useless the moment Ledger drops support. They continue working just fine.

It is true however, that you probably should start looking around for something new once that happens, because you'll never know if there are new security vulnerabilities that are simply not fixed anymore.

That's exactly the idea behind SeedSigner. It doesn't have a secure element, so they opted not to allow for seed storage on the device; this means it's less easy to use than an actual hardware wallet that does store the seed.

However, the closest I know that you can get to that idea is:
[1] Buy Foundation Passport (by the way; price will increase from $200 to $250 next week)
[2] Open it up, verify the integrity of all components, as well as the screen circuitry etched into the glass and match what you see against the fully open-source hardware data sheets, PCBs, etc.
[3] Upload your own 'developer pub key' to it
[4] Clone the firmware repo and read all the code, perform static and dynamic security audit
[5] Build the firmware and upload it to the device

Actually, Trezor's impact is super big, just considering their actual open source license (and apparently good code).
It is used by ColdCard (though it switched to CC license which doesn't allow to use their code, which I'm not sure is even allowed by the Trezor license).
And it is used by Foundation Passport; who don't hide it at all:
They've used questionable tactics (shown in music videos with tens of millions of views) for that, of course all paid from customers buying old, low-quality (and still cheap) devices; so the margins must be pretty large and the component costs close to zero.

Keep in mind to check out the 'questionable' stuff about CC I wrote above and in the ColdCard thread. Also looking at its price vs. current (discounted Passport price) of just $40 more, I find ColdCard a hard sell right now.

Certainly that argument can be made, and I am inclined to agree with you.  I was merely commenting on shear numbers, Ledger having a bigger market share may have made a bigger impact on attracting end users, and hence mass adoption. 


Couldn't agree more, Trezor is a superior product, and company.  Although the ColdCard is starting to win me over, I can't see myself without a Trezor any time soon.



Haha!  Touché.  Shitcoiners will grow up eventually, and they still need some love in the mean time. 

Although software like Electrum will most likely support older firmware, this will happen only until the point some big change/update/security fix is implemented (into bitcoin itself, or Electrum, or even Ledger itself).
While I expect Electrum be on the side of its users, it probably won't allow unsafe device still work.

So at some point, whether we like or not, after Ledger stops supporting Nano S, it will become just an useless piece of hardware.

However, we're still fine for 2 more years at least, so it's not something I'd insist on too much this early.

I am not saying something just because it's trendy, but I am doing exact opposite and just stating the facts.
I would argue that first ever hardware wallet Trezor has done much more than Ledger for whole Bitcoin ecosystem, and has much less problem with their devices.
Same Trezor model One still works perfectly fine and they have regular updates, and I don't know a single contribution Ledger made to Bitcoin ecosystem,
but yes they are contributing a lot for shitcoinery and NFT scammery.... so they basically accelerated shit, like when you flash water in your toilet.

[/quote]

I think that if that happen, we can just ignore ledger live and use third party wallets such as Electrum/metamask/etc that will most likely never drop support.

our seed will never be unusable, and any firmware update that would "destroy" the device we can simply skip it.



I totally agree with this.

Cheap, easy to use, compatible with every altcoin/fork/etc.  And most important: very safe.

I could say that they didn't do anything spectacular and the competition has done the same.
But: they've done it cheaper than most of the competition. And clearly that means cost cutting here and there, which is bound to back fire sooner or later. And it did.
It's not about bashing Ledger because it's a trendy thing to do, it's about losing confidence/trust in them; and you know how difficult is to build up trust and how easy is to lose it.

I agree, it's bound to happen eventually.  Any excuse they come up with will have to be evaluated at the time for validity.  Companies are in business to make money, and selling hard goods is a tough business to be in.  I know from experience.  You sell one hardware wallet to someone, and that's probably the only one they'll buy for the next 5 years.

I've been a manufacturing worker in various industries for nearly 30 years, and I've seen companies I've worked for use different strategies to stay relevant while also supporting their old clients as best as they can.  One widget manufacturer I used to work for would try to upgrade their products annually, and as their previous products became less and less common the prices of maintaining those products would organically become less cost effective.  It's not due to greed, but manufacturing rates.  If I make 100 pieces of widget A, each piece is cheaper than if I only made 50, or 25.  As fewer people need Widget A, it'll become more expensive for the manufacturer keep in production, and more expensive for the customer to buy.  But, in order to stay relevant and keep attracting new customers, they need implement new technology in their products.  It can be a double edged sword; your new customers are happy to have the latest and greatest, and your old customers become bitter as their product becomes more expensive to maintain, or even useless.

I know it's trendy to bash on Ledger these days, especially in recent years, but consider what they have done to help the crypto community over all.  One could argue they've been a tremendous force in the effort to accelerate mass adoption due to the simplicity, affordability, and security of the Nano S.

Again, I'm not a fan of Ledger but at the same time I have a perspective on their struggle that may not be common on this forum.

From reading the quote above, I had some thoughts. Ledger guarantees one thing, Ledger guarantees another. They can't even guarantee the safety of the personal data of their customers, not to mention something else.
 
And what if one day Ledger ceases to exist (or just support its devices) and all devices bought by users turn into useless junk. It turns out that at least part of crypto community depends on this company, which is not at all in harmony with the ideas of decentralization. In principle, this applies to any sold devices.

Now I'm going off topic a little a bit and ask a question. Why hasn't crypto community created their own hardware wallet yet? It seems to me that this can be done with due desire, although many difficulties and obstacles will arise.

The idea is the following:
Hardware and software must be separate. The firmware must be open source with the ability to download, as is done with electrun, for example, and the device itself so that it can be bought separately or assembled by yourself. Even better, if the device will have a high level of maintainability and be modular.

As a result, it could look like this:
- bought the device or assembled it youself from the components.
- downloaded the firmware and installed it on the hardware wallet.
- use it.

It's obvious that sooner or later that's what will happen. The point is the "when". I hope that it'll happen only after the chip shortage loosen up and SeedSigner becomes more mature too.

Sure, and it's not a bad idea to archive this links and save them for future.
If something changes on Ledger website regarding this we can always refer to archives.

Judging by their actions in past and how they handled support for many of their discontinued devices (HW.1, Unplugged, Nano, Blue), I am not trusting what they say about support for one more discontinued wallet.
They are wasting time and resources on other useless things, so I am predicting they will create some update that will make model S unusable in reality... maybe with much bigger ledger coin apps.
Excuse could be that they are doing this for ''safety and security'' of their beloved customers 

This is not really unexpected since they still want to sell the remaining units and by European laws they have to offer support and warrantee for 2 years, afaik.
The interesting part is that they don't give any time frame, nothing. So since I expect they will sell all remaining Nano S this year, .. let's see what will they say about this at the end of 2024.

On the other hand, Nano S+ is, afaik, basically just a Nano S with bigger memory. If it's like that, keeping it updated may not be a big hassle even after those two years. And if they do it, they'll keep quite a big number of old customers happy.

I'm not a fan of the Ledger wallets, whether the Nano S or the Nano X, so I'm not trying to defend them from anything other than misinformation.  To that end, they will be supporting the Nano S for the foreseeable future despite their plans to discontinue production.

This is from the blog post revealing the news:


Again, I've been critical of Ledger for various reasons, but I seriously doubt they would leave their Nano S users out in the cold.  That would be worse (for their business) than leaking all their customer info onto the darkweb.  

It would be nice to add links. Do you mind if I add?

https://www.ledger.com/blog/our-security-products-educational-announcements-at-ledger-op3n-during-nft.nyc

https://www.ledger.com/the-ledger-nano-s-sunset-the-next-phase-in-our-web3-hardware-journey - post on the termination of production and sales Nano S.

Exactly what dkbit98 had repeatedly warned about happened. What will be the next stage? Is it really the termination of support Nano S. Then millions of user devices will turn out to be a useless toy and people will be forced to buy a new HW device again?

It's good that dkbit98 keeps track of updates and reports on changes, otherwise community would not have learned about the latest 10k Nano S devices here soon. There are those who want to buy HW from the latest supply?

It is now officially confirmed and announced on Ledger Op3n in NYC, Ledger Nano S last 10 000 devices will be sold next week with NFT, and they are going to stop it's production in favor of new model Ledger Nano S Plus.
I hate to say it again, but I told you this will happen, and they are still wasting time and resources for some NFT crap called Ledger Market (market.ledger.com).
They created some extension for this that sounds a lot like one old scam BitConnet, and it's called LedgerConnect... very similar terrible name  
This means lot's of new sign-ups and new chances to get elected for their new leak and contacted from scammers.
Ledger has become a lot like circus show.

No it's not recommended, and even if you reset your device who knows what can happen during delivery, not to mention cost of doing that would be much more then you paid for this bad device.
DIY repair and ordering cheap display replacement from China is not that hard, I don't think there is any soldering process at all.
Ordering links and instructions for this can be found in the first post of this topic.
In case device screen is dimmed (one more nono s issue) you can use smartphone camera to see content on ledger display.