Topic: Why I wouldn't buy Ledger Nano S ever again? - page 6. (Read 1351 times)

I don't know because I never used passphrase option in ledger wallet and I don't like it's connection with pin code.

I think that your information is wrong, Trezor won't release their new hardware wallet device before end of 2022, and they are working on their own Open Source secure element with Tropic Square.
In latest interview they said that they will sell this secure elements to anyone who want's to buy them, including other hardware wallet manufacturers.

Adding Bluetooth to the new device, which leaves an open door for potential attacks, and not learning their storage size mistake makes me presume their up and coming product will only get worse.  A slick design is useless when there are new, more "modern" approaches you come with that are actually anything but secure.

Also, their main point of supporting bunch of altcoins turned into their main point of supporting all sorts of shitcoins.  They seem to care more about that than adding more functionality to their Live app for instance.  The Tor and Full Node features have been highly requested by the community to no avail.

This is interesting, I have looked this issue up before but found nothing about it.  I just thought it was only me who really cared.  If you go to the Passphrase option, can you switch between letters instantly as in there is no delay between the button pushes?  I do not seem to be able to switch between more than one to two characters per second.

That is for sure.  It is an unnecessary headache Trezor found a great solution for.  Unfortunately however, as far as rumors go, I heard Trezor's upcoming product will also feature a closed source chip which makes me wonder how many alternatives we will really be left with in the future.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

That is because all those 2 KB apps are just clones and forks of original coins, for example all you mentioned are forks of Bitcoin, and ETC, BNB and other crap are forks of Ethereum.
My point is that their main Nano S selling point for supporting bunch of altcoins does not stand anymore, until they fix this or upgrade with some new device and I think they are working on something like that.

It does take time to import passphrase but I never before heard someone having this issue with ledger slow speed, and installing latest firmware could fix your issue, but there is always a chance this could break your device and unusable.

I think that their model with separate apps for each coin also have some security flaws compared to other hardware wallets, and it's just a waiting ticking bomb.
More apps you have it creates more problems and you can't really have Bitcoin only firmware, even if you don't install any other app they still exist in background.

That would be enough for anyone to stop buying their devices, but I guess people only learn slow and the hard way.

I still have a Nano S in my drawer but I would rather not use it anymore.  I currently only use it for certain accounts.  Makes me happy to see you people moving away from closed-source hardware and from a questionable company.

On a positive note, my device has not had any kind of hardware failures yet and I did use it heavily for years straight.  I reduced my brightness from the start though, so keep that in mind.  However, there is a negative side to it.  My Nano S has been moving awfully slow after I updated it to one of the latest firmware versions.  I can not remember precisely, but I think it was around six months ago.  I used to navigate really fast through the menu before, but they seem to have added a button input delay which makes the Passphrase setup a pain.  Takes years now to fill in the Passphrase, while before I could have done it within a minute or less.

The storage capacity is one more big minus.  I constantly had to go through Ledger Live every time I needed to work with more than 3 coins.  Deleting and re-installing apps every time is just an unnecessary waste of time that could have been avoided from the start.  I also do not like that I have to go through Ledger Live every time I need to manage Ledger's apps.  There is no Tor option, Ledger Live is at least partially closed source as far as I am concerned and so on.  Not worth it.

The customer data leak put an end to any of my potential future Ledger orders.  That was a clear sign for me that they are not trustworthy and I shall steer away from their products.  Trezor's or airgapped computer for the win.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

It always depends on the combination of apps. If you have one standalone app like Bitcoin with multiple dependent apps, it should work. The storage capacity of the Nano S is 144 KB.

An example:
Standalone BTC app - 64 KB.
Dependent apps - DOGE, BCH, Dash, Digibyte, Zcash, BTC Gold, etc. are all 2 KB each.
That makes a total of 76 KB with 7 apps installed.

But yeah if you are going to use multiple standalone apps like BTC, ETH, TRON, Stellar, etc., you aren't going to be able to install more than 2, maybe 3 if you are lucky.

Yeah, developers claim they rewritten apps and everything else from scratch to enable reverse compatibility for future updates.
If you ask me this is a poor man choice for a hardware wallet and classical used car sellers scheme.

Plastic could happen with plastic because of cold/hot temperatures and depends how long he used ledger before the crack happened.

They never announce anything when size increases and they leave it for customers to get ''surprised'' and first post about that issue.
It's totally misleading that Ledger writes on their websites how Nano S is supporting 1100+ coins and app to 6 apps installed on your device, but in reality you can't install more than 2 or 3 apps.

I guess I could soon be affected then. I think I got mine somewhere in 2017/2018. So far I haven't noticed any screen issues or problems with the plastic cover. I am generally not a person who breaks electronic devices because he drops them or carries them in his pockets, so I don't think those types of things will affect me.

I did update the Bitcoin and Ethereum apps yesterday and was surprised when I noticed that the usual "update all" button was greyed out. Couldn't figure out why until I noticed the difference in the app sizes. I had to uninstall a third app I had to update those of BTC and ETH.   

It seems that their latest firmware has also increased in size. I read a bunch of old reports on Reddit that they had 156 to 160 kb of free storage for the apps.

In addition to that, there's one user who's saying he/she got a crack when it wasn't in use:

• Quote from: dkbit98 on November 12, 2021, 08:41:42 AM
  Ledger has one of the worst support I ever saw, that is very slow and they probably have small stuff so there is really no fix for this, except if they hire more people.
  
  They're also a bunch of liars ^{[e.g. here's one case]} who love to give false hopes.
  
  
  Quote from: dkbit98 on November 12, 2021, 08:41:42 AM
  considering all I mentioned above I don't think it's worth the money.
  
  I totally agree ^{[it's a shame, they could've easily fixed the first half of issues from your list, but for some reason, they've done nothing so far]}.

I don't want to transform possible coincidences into conspiracies. While it may be possible, a much easier explanation is that those components are cheap and made so. It's the current consumerism era's fault.
However, it's their loss. While I am not sure I'd be capable of changing that display myself, I am pretty sure that I will no order HW from them again.

I'll keep in mind next time I power the Nano S to reduce the brightness. Thanks.

People who purchased Nano S devices in 2017 are starting to see first issues now, that means cheap display is probably meant to last 4 years more or less.
Ledger warranty is two years and they are not responsible for your device after that, but like I said you can fix this ordering new display for $2 or $3, don't waste any money purchasing new ledger.
However, there could be an issue with their new closed source firmware breaking devices, like this guy reported few days ago (post is being downvoted on purpose):
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/qqsyov/ledger_nano_s_not_working/

I also have Nano S and, while I knew from start that's closed source and the memory is small. Meanwhile the cheap plastic is the smallest problem, while the leaking of personal info and the awful handling of that situation made me kinda stop recommending Nano S.
The bad multisig was something I've read between the lines, but didn't give much attention - I always thought that if I want to multisig then I'll buy one more HW, from another maker (probably Trezor) and see then what is possible and that's not.

So now my bigger concern is the screen issue I didn't know about (hence thank you for bringing it into discussion!).
How many years is the average for "normal use" after which it's expected to become difficult to read?

Ledger Nano S hardware wallet was first released in 2016 and it's arguably still one of the most popular hardware wallets in the world with millions of sold devices.

I will post here my reasons why I wouldn't buy this device again, and I will post ways how you can try to fix some of the Nano S problems (if possible).

1. Closed Source
Ledger Nano S is closed source device with no intention to change that in future, that means it could potentially store hidden backdoor for years.
Firmware updates are often causing more problems and only few closed circle of people is working on it.
There are even cases when updating devices with new firmware simply breaks the device and makes it unusable.

How to Fix this? Switch to other open source hardware wallets, or ask Ledger developers to release their code.



2. Small Memory
Memory for Ledger Nano S is very small with around 144kb 138Kb, but even bigger problem is that size of apps for coins is growing all the time and memory stays the same.
With recent 2.0.0 update size of Bitcoin app has grown from 40kb to 64kb, that means you can support less coins on your device at the same time.
Developers now claim this is only temporary but I don't believe them because it's getting bigger constantly.

How to Fix this? Uninstall apps that you don't use on regular basis, or use only Bitcoin app.



3. Display dies after few years
Ledger Nano S is using cheap OLED display that will die or start to dim usually after few years even if you don't use device so often.

How to Fix this? Easiest way to prolong life of your display is to change and reduce brightness in settings and keep device in dry place.
If you already have faulty display you can order new cheap display online or locally and replace it yourself following this video instructions.
Make sure you are purchasing this display with 12 PIN connector.
Some people are even using smartphone cameras to see characters on dim display.
Last and most expensive option is to buy new hardware wallet and import your seed words.



4. Cheap plastic body
Nano S is made from cheap plastic that gets broken easily if you hold it stronger when removing USB cable.

How to Fix this? You can try to superglue the plastic, but you should be extra careful when handling and removing cable.
Maybe it's possible to make custom 3d printed case or order it online from other people, but I couldn't find one myself.



5. Nano S could soon be discontinued
Ledger have a history of defunct and discontinued products like Ledger HW.1, Ledger Nano, Ledger Unplugged and Ledger Blue.
One more thing is that Nano S is using old Micro-USB to USB Type-A cable, and most of devices switched to USB Type-C.

How to Fix this? Simple. Don't buy Ledger Nano S.



6. Bad Multisig support
Ledger is probably one of the worst hardware wallets you can use for your multisig setup.
You can't display own or cosigner xpub on demand, it's not showing Electrum Zpub and Ypub formats, xpubs are not registered inside the device, and ledger is not
showing multisig receive address for verification, it always assumes that cosigners are trustworthy.

How to Fix this? Use other wallets for your multisig setup and avoid Ledger and Trezor for this purpose.

7. Leaking personal information
Ledger leaked personal information for millions of their customers leaking everything including full names, address and phone numbers.

How to Fix this? Buy in local reseller or use PO boxes when ordering your device.

8. Bad support
Ledger has one of the worst support I ever saw, that is very slow and they probably have small stuff so there is really no fix for this, except if they hire more people.

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Price of Nano S is currently around 60€ (+shipping) and that is not a lot today but considering all I mentioned above I don't think it's worth the money.
It's still a better option that Nano X epic fail with battery issues, and probably better option than keeping coins on hot wallet.

Are there any alternative hardware wallets? Yes there are, but you need to pay a bit more money and get better quality and open source device.
Do your own research.