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Topic: Why I wouldn't buy Ledger Nano S ever again? - page 3. (Read 1327 times)

legendary
Activity: 3234
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Would rather replace the display by myself and void the warranty instead.  Or just buy a new one but my suggestion is, do not trust strangers, particularly Ledger employees, with your Hardware Wallet on their hands.

I also wouldn’t choose to send my device in for repair, I would try to fix it myself or buy a new one and smash the old one to pieces and throw it in the fire - $50 or $150 is not worth the risk, unless the device has never stored anything of value, or we got it broken.
legendary
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And obviously also reset the HW (enter wrong PIN 3 times). Maybe even reinitialize it for an empty wallet and reinstall at least the bitcoin app.
If the display isn't working or you can't see what you are entering, it will become difficult to reset it that way.

Clearly, it depends how big the damage is. This display is also broken, but you can still see enough for doing a reset.
On the other hand, if it's completely black and one also had really big funds there, indeed, best is scraping the HW and buying another (maybe from another maker), so he doesn't get his funds and home address exposed, even if he moved the funds away.
So it depends... one has to take the decision for himself; all we can do is come with ideas.
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Is it even recommended to send them back to them for faulty device replacement though?  I would not trust them handling my Ledger.  Particularly with a closed source component they can mess with which may have easily stored information I definitely would not want it to.
You can't reset the device to factory settings with a completely broken display unfortunately and there is also no option to do that through Ledger Live. What you can do is to restore your Bitcoin wallet from seed on Electrum, for example, and then create a new wallet for temporary use until your hardware wallet is fixed. The old HW seed should never be used again since it was recovered in a hot wallet and has lost its protection.

This can become a lengthy process if you have multiple coins and you need to recover each and everyone of them and move them to a new wallet with a different seed.

And obviously also reset the HW (enter wrong PIN 3 times). Maybe even reinitialize it for an empty wallet and reinstall at least the bitcoin app.
If the display isn't working or you can't see what you are entering, it will become difficult to reset it that way.
legendary
Activity: 3668
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Is it even recommended to send them back to them for faulty device replacement though?

First set up a cold storage (with properly checking the new seed and addresses, with proper backups of the seed) and transfer your funds there.
And obviously also reset the HW (enter wrong PIN 3 times). Maybe even reinitialize it for an empty wallet and reinstall at least the bitcoin app.

Then even if they insist in recovering your seed, the most they can get is an old transaction history, if anything.
And yes, then I would not be scared to send it to them for fixing it.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1296
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The thing that people need to remember though is that you void your warranty if you physically open your Ledger HW. And according to their support, they will replace faulty devices even if the 2-year warranty period expires. That's not the case if you open it though.
Is it even recommended to send them back to them for faulty device replacement though?  I would not trust them handling my Ledger.  Particularly with a closed source component they can mess with which may have easily stored information I definitely would not want it to.

Would rather replace the display by myself and void the warranty instead.  Or just buy a new one but my suggestion is, do not trust strangers, particularly Ledger employees, with your Hardware Wallet on their hands.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
Well, I fully admit, the option of sending back a device with a broken display. Only I would first transfer the entire balance to another working device. Broken display prevents you from doing this? But you still have seed-phrase, don't you?  So, it's quite possible and you don't have to worry that Ledger will get critical information for you.
hero member
Activity: 882
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The thing that people need to remember though is that you void your warranty if you physically open your Ledger HW. And according to their support, they will replace faulty devices even if the 2-year warranty period expires. That's not the case if you open it though.
Is it even recommended to send them back to them for faulty device replacement though?  I would not trust them handling my Ledger.  Particularly with a closed source component they can mess with which may have easily stored information I definitely would not want it to.

Would rather replace the display by myself and void the warranty instead.  Or just buy a new one but my suggestion is, do not trust strangers, particularly Ledger employees, with your Hardware Wallet on their hands.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Whatever hardware wallet you own it would be a good idea to have one back-up wallet (maybe even from different manufacturer), just in case you need to send your coins quickly.
It's also not a bad idea to have a spare display either, especially since they are not that expensive and cost only a few dollars. They are easier to replace than I thought and literally anyone can do it after watching a 2-minute YouTube video. The thing that people need to remember though is that you void your warranty if you physically open your Ledger HW. And according to their support, they will replace faulty devices even if the 2-year warranty period expires. That's not the case if you open it though.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
If only one word became unreadable (which I doubt), then could try to enter both variants of words into the passphrase. One of them would definitely fit. In this case, I would start with word "climb".
I also think the hidden word was climb... now I feel like I am in ledger tv quiz.
This was not the problem with only one word... display is fried and unusable (common issue for ledger nono S) so all words are missing some parts, but some of them are easier to read than others.
Whatever hardware wallet you own it would be a good idea to have one back-up wallet (maybe even from different manufacturer), just in case you need to send your coins quickly.
legendary
Activity: 1792
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Good question asked by one guy from ledger reddit channel regarding broken ledger nano S screen, something that is happening much more often than you may think.
If something like this happened to your device it's making it almost unusable and only thing you could do is buying new display replacement.
Anyway, do you think word #14 in this case is climb or clump (both of them can be found in bip39 word list)?


https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/t62b8a/does_anyone_know_what_this_word_is_setting_up_but/
I am inclined to the version that this word is "climb". There is too little space between characters for the word "clump". Otherwise, the distance between the 2nd and 4th letter would be greater.

In general, Pmalek expressed the same thing:
Between 'climb' and 'clump', I think it can only be 'climb'. There isn't enough space for all of the curves of the letters 'um' if they are preceded by an 'l'.
If only one word became unreadable (which I doubt), then could try to enter both variants of words into the passphrase. One of them would definitely fit. In this case, I would start with word "climb".
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
Anyway, do you think word #14 in this case is climb or clump (both of them can be found in bip39 word list)?
Between 'climb' and 'clump', I think it can only be 'climb'. There isn't enough space for all of the curves of the letters 'um' if they are preceded by an 'l'.

With the latest firmware updates they also added this 'hold both keys to open Settings'. It now takes about 2 seconds to pop up the Settings menu.
The hold both keys for the settings menu feature was introduced with firmware version 2.0.0, not 2.1.0.
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 1873
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They seem to have added a deliberate delay between button presses. It's noticeable also when you first connect the device and enter your PIN to unlock it. I remember reading about something like that in the past, but I can't find any source now to confirm it and I don't remember what reasons they gave for doing that. Have you checked in the settings menu if there is an option to speed it up? I will have to generate a new BTC addy later today so I will take a look myself and report back if I find something.
I know this reply comes a few months later but they did not add an option to remove the delay.  This sucks.  Imagine Windows suddenly imposed a delay between key presses that you can not change.

In fact, things got even worse.  With the latest firmware updates they also added this 'hold both keys to open Settings'.  It now takes about 2 seconds to pop up the Settings menu.  So now you have a delay between button presses and it takes seconds to access the Settings menu.  They even added this warning thing for the Passphrase setup.  So if before I was able to go from entering the pin to the Passphrase setup menu in half a minute, now it takes at least 2 minutes to do it.  I do not mind the Passphrase warning, it is good for new users but I think a 'never show again' thing would have been handy?  What is next?  A system UI overhaul with 5 second ads that you can not close every time you want to open an app?

It seems very obvious to me now that with every update they are trying to make us move on to a 'better' product of theirs.  The effect it had on me is exactly the opposite though, I have moved everything to a fully open source hardware wallet now.  Congrats, Ledger!  You only lost another customer.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
Good question asked by one guy from ledger reddit channel regarding broken ledger nano S screen, something that is happening much more often than you may think.
If something like this happened to your device it's making it almost unusable and only thing you could do is buying new display replacement.
Anyway, do you think word #14 in this case is climb or clump (both of them can be found in bip39 word list)?


https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/t62b8a/does_anyone_know_what_this_word_is_setting_up_but/
legendary
Activity: 2730
Merit: 7065
December 29, 2021, 03:17:31 AM
#60
But I am about to buy a new HW wallet. What do you guys think is the best option right now? The software should be open source and the memory should be enough to manage at least 10 coins. Is Ledger Nano X a good option?
My Nano S works just fine for several years, but I would never upgrade it to the Nano X. I am against the idea of Bluetooth, a battery (especially following the fiasco with all those battery hardware problems that the Nano X had), and I don't need storage space for 100 coins. I wouldn't be able to write down 100 coins to save my life. And neither could those who say that is the reason for their purchase of a Nano X.

However, it would be nice if the Nano S could at least support 4-5 installed coins at once. But it doesn't.
Based on what is available right now. I would probably take one of the two Trezor HWs. Just make sure you extend your seed with a long and secure passphrase. But don't expect to get one of those until February either, unless you are purchasing one from an official reseller who still has some.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
December 27, 2021, 02:33:33 PM
#59
However, with the above in mind and if I was buying right now, I really like the way Keystone is going, especially when it comes to the point of batteries issues over time.
I also like Keystone approach on many things, but I have my concerns and complains for them also.
For example, they are still not supporting Segwit addresses and Taproot support will come maybe in 2022 but just for Bitcoinonly firmare.
Second thing is that we don't exactly know what secure element they use because they never disclosed that information.
If you ask me, I am waiting to see first fully open source hardware wallet from Trezor, Square or maybe someone else who knows.

Lastly, no way I'd use Ledger for FIDO and I don't suggest anyone use any hardware wallet for that purpose either, simply because you're putting too many eggs in one basket if you ask me.
Adding FIDO 2FA is cool feature in theory, and it would be nice to use one device only for that, but my issue is what happens if device gets broken or firmware update messes up everything.
You can't use any backup on other FIDO devices and you must buy new ledger, or your can't log-in on your account anymore.
 
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 508
December 27, 2021, 11:39:06 AM
#58
Have used the Ledger Nano S before and as far as the display is concerned, I can only agree with the OP. It is very cheaply produced and does not last long. After the display broke, I have no longer used a HW wallet.
You can easily order and replace that display yourself, order it online from from one many websites that sell them likethis one for example, and follow this video instructions.
If you need any help you can write in this topic, and people will help you if you get stuck somewhere during this process.
Ledger should also release new device ledger nano s plus in 2022 and they improved display and made it bigger.

But I am about to buy a new HW wallet. What do you guys think is the best option right now? The software should be open source and the memory should be enough to manage at least 10 coins. Is Ledger Nano X a good option?
I would not suggesting anyone to waste money purchasing ledger nano X for several reasons, it's closed source, many people recently reported battery and firmware update issues.
More information about this can be found in my topic Ledger Nano X Battery Pandemic.

My suggestion for everyone is to think about purchasing and supporting Open Source hardware wallets, or simply use offline computer with software wallet.
List of hardware wallets supporting more coins like you want:

- Trezor
- Bitbox
- Keystone



I had some of the same Ledger concerns shared in this thread but to me they are absolved if you're willing to buy 2-3 wallets at a time and shelve/store them securely after verifying they work. I didn't like the data breach Ledger had but these things happen, even to governments. Batteries and screens also fail over time, no electronic device is exempt to it. I want to be clear that I'm not knocking open source here either though, I'm just saying I don't share the grave concern here as to why Ledger is that bad in comparison to other options out there.

However, with the above in mind and if I was buying right now, I really like the way Keystone is going, especially when it comes to the point of batteries issues over time.

Lastly, no way I'd use Ledger for FIDO and I don't suggest anyone use any hardware wallet for that purpose either, simply because you're putting too many eggs in one basket if you ask me.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
December 26, 2021, 04:09:13 PM
#57
Have used the Ledger Nano S before and as far as the display is concerned, I can only agree with the OP. It is very cheaply produced and does not last long. After the display broke, I have no longer used a HW wallet.
You can easily order and replace that display yourself, order it online from from one many websites that sell them likethis one for example, and follow this video instructions.
If you need any help you can write in this topic, and people will help you if you get stuck somewhere during this process.
Ledger should also release new device ledger nano s plus in 2022 and they improved display and made it bigger.

But I am about to buy a new HW wallet. What do you guys think is the best option right now? The software should be open source and the memory should be enough to manage at least 10 coins. Is Ledger Nano X a good option?
I would not suggesting anyone to waste money purchasing ledger nano X for several reasons, it's closed source, many people recently reported battery and firmware update issues.
More information about this can be found in my topic Ledger Nano X Battery Pandemic.

My suggestion for everyone is to think about purchasing and supporting Open Source hardware wallets, or simply use offline computer with software wallet.
List of hardware wallets supporting more coins like you want:

- Trezor
- Bitbox
- Keystone

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 3406
Crypto Swap Exchange
December 26, 2021, 04:22:43 AM
#56
After the display broke, I have no longer used a HW wallet.
Did you drop it or you're still referring to the third point in OP?

The software should be open source and the memory should be enough to manage at least 10 coins. Is Ledger Nano X a good option?
Since the firmware that's being used in it isn't open-source, it doesn't tick all the boxes... As a Trezor user, I'm quite happy with mine, but it doesn't come with a "secure element".
- Open Source Hardware Wallets
tyz
legendary
Activity: 3360
Merit: 1533
December 26, 2021, 03:42:57 AM
#55
Have used the Ledger Nano S before and as far as the display is concerned, I can only agree with the OP. It is very cheaply produced and does not last long. After the display broke, I have no longer used a HW wallet.

But I am about to buy a new HW wallet. What do you guys think is the best option right now? The software should be open source and the memory should be enough to manage at least 10 coins. Is Ledger Nano X a good option?

hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 5834
not your keys, not your coins!
December 17, 2021, 12:14:45 PM
#54
It's also a developer's duty (in my opinion) to consider the device's capabilities that the software is made to run on. If you have to develop software for an extremely limited embedded device, that should allow users to install extra stuff onto it, you better focus on actually leaving them space to do so.

A bit of snark.
Introductions:
n0nce this is reality, reality this is n0nce apparently you never met each other yet :-)
Cheesy I guess you're right, that developers always try to squeeze out the most out of the available hardware - even to this day. However, these days I see this mostly for example in AAA games, where sometimes at launch date nobody really owns the hardware to run them. But I feel like 'getting the most out of the hardware' should also mean making it run as good as possible, for as long as possible. I noticed in recent years smartphones running longer and better than in the past, where a 2013 application could slow a 2012 phone down to the point of 'unusability'.
Also, just because a bad practice is going on for a long time, doesn't mean it should continue. Especially if a manufacturer makes both the hardware and the software, they need to make sure it runs. If they're different, they can always blame it on the other party; but that's not the case with Ledger and their Ledger apps.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
December 14, 2021, 07:02:17 AM
#53
Serious thought, Ledger has already made it 100% clear that they don't care about their customers. They are not even trying to hide it. But they are selling a ton of devices. So, the question is WHAT are they doing that other manufacturers are not?
Ledger indeed sold millions of their devices so far, and I tried to find some official information how much devices are sold by other hardware wallet manufacturers.
It's not easy to find exact data and some of them didn't want to reveal this info, but what I know is that Trezor also sold over one million devices, but they made first ever hardware wallet in the word so no wonder.
I think that Ledger have better marketing strategy and they are willing to work with anyone including centralized exchanges like Coinbase,
they probably have better funding, and and they have hidden signed agreements, maybe even with government agencies for spying people.
Ledger is also part of DCG - Digital Currency Group with 165 companies including Chainalysis, Coindesk, etc. so that may be one more reason.

Imagine having to deal with way more faulty features than we're already seeing after each of the updates, on their current line-up... No, thanks Cheesy
Maybe next step from them is to make ledger hardware wallet brain implant, and I am sure that many people would accept this phone/wallet spying nightmare.
Everyone should read latest interview of Ledger CEO Pascal Gauthier to see how optimistic and ambitious he is:

Quote
Do you envision the Ledger device evolving into a phone, like the iPhone, that can do a lot of things?

Potentially. And it's a future that Ledger is ready for in the sense that we are developing technology that can be embedded into a phone. But you have to redesign the phone completely. You will have to compromise on some of the phone’s functionality. This is why it's such a challenging problem.
https://www.protocol.com/fintech/ledger-crypto-wallet-pascal-gauthier

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