Topic: WINGS ★ Where DAO Unicorns Are Born! ★ Token launched! - page 9. (Read 522802 times)

Sad to read it, that was such promising project at the beginning with all this DAO feautures etc
It is a pity that this project did not fulfill the hopes placed in it, but on the other hand it is quite common in crypto nowadays.

The team pulled out with the release of the beta platform, and when it happened the market began to slowly crawl to the bottom. Understanding this, they did not invest much in marketing, because it seems to me that they already realized that their project was hopeless.
Why did you need more exchanges? Wings were added to the two most popular exchanges. They were quite enough. Of course, if the project was successful, then the exchanges would be more over time.

To be precise, they raised about 2000 BTC, which on the day of the ICO was worth 895.67 USD per BTC. Note that on the way BTC rised significantly, even to 20 000 USD at some point. It is unknown how much exactly they sold and how many millions they have, but it is definitely way more than is needed for development of such project. But they deserve it, since people gave them money willingly, just like any other ICO project. I agree with you, that the exact number is unknown and there is lack of transparency, but lack of transparency is something that characterises most ICOs and Wings was not the only one to never report how many funds they had and on what they are spending it, but it is something that you could accuse many other ICOs as well, so IMO not that relevant and I don't really care if they took some of that money for themselves via creative accounting like many other ICOs did, since it is standard practice here and noone minds it as long as some of that money is spend on the project. I am just disappointed by having multimillion sum from ICO  and not spending it on marketing and PR and other things that might benefit the token holders. But I am not here to ask questions what happened to the 2000 BTC and how much of it was spent, if you are curious about it you can further pursue this issue. I am here to ask, why a project that has millions of dollars is not spending fraction of that money on professional PR in times of crisis like this (when price is plummeting, bug cased people lose trust in the project, exchanges are delisting)? Is it so hard to spend some of that mony on additional paid listing, hiring professional PR company to handle this, pay back people that lost money because of the bug, become more transparent about spending so far etc.


Exactly! 6% is a lot, when you look at the numbers that they gave multiple times, stating that the rewards they gave away so far were worth 120 million USD on the day of the ICO (and note that some of them pumped significatly immediately after launch). Assuming they were average with they answers at best (but do you think the were just average?) it was additional millions of profit. And remember, this is for project only, not including personal rewards of the individual team members. And it was stated multiple times the are using those tokens belonging to the Foundation for forecasting (which they have right to do, this is source of additioal profit for the project). If the numbers you provided are correct, it means they earned ton of money and why it is not spent on some paid exchanges listing, PR, giving money back to the people who lost it because of their bug and additional marketing is beyond me. It might be in their interest to wait for Wings.ai to fall to be able to cash out rest of the money and move to the next project, it might be simply poor management or it might be something else, but the fact is they are not spending this money right. Examples what should be done are in my previous posts.


That's my point. You gave examples of project that did not reimburse, while I was talking about those that did reimburse. This is why I stated that some did and some did not. Wings decided to be in a group that moves full responsibility to the users and does not reimburse in any way, which is their choice, but it also gives a vibe "do not trust our smart contracts, becasue in case there is another bug in them (or in the UI) and your money is lost, we will not pay you anything". So once again, you are free to do this, but then do not expect people to trust you and don't be surprised that the price is declining.

There is no point to discuss it any further.
We now see (partly to your research) that they have lots of of money.
We also do not know how they are exactly spending it (which is industry standard, we all know those ICOs had more money than they needed anyway).
We also see not much is being done to regain the trust (no effort to figure out how many people lost money because of the bug and paying those people back, no immediate PR statement, not spending money on additonal marketing).
Some might think it is OK (like you), some might think it is wrong (like me). The market will decide what happens next.

well, in my opinion ICO is not a profit, it is a means to fund development, marketing and operations, which they (wings) seem to continuously be doing for more than 3 years (i think project was started in April 2016 or so) ? Lets remember they raised afair 1.7 or 1.8 million, not 15 and certainly not 100.

Regarding a I actually checked this now and according to the terms, only 6% was given to the foundation (and another 14m to core members personally vested over 36 months, but thats personal tokens). So thats 6M wings belonging to the foundation from which i assume they needed to incentivise employees, pay bills and who knowns what else, like any other company that has an asset.
Even if they did forecast using the tokens (which i'm not sure they did as i couldn't find anything about it in the quick search i did), what makes you think they actually made a profit ? (forecasted correctly or sold the tokens that were received as a reward). if they did forecast, it would actually be logical if they didn't sell the reward tokens as that would be a warning sign for potential projects ("hey look the foundation dumps our tokens so we won't give a reward").
and lets say that you are right and they did forecast and they did make a reward which they did sell. how big do you think that reward was considering the fact that they were 1 forecast out of hundreds and considering that they probably had a significant number of employees ?

also
that's actually incorrect. none of the examples i gave reimbursed people, because they all don't charge people for using their software (despite potentially making a profit from user data or what not)

Regarding Wings not making profit: it actually does make profit, but with different model. Exchanges take percentage from transactions, Wings had two income sources: the ICO (people paying in advance for a service being built) and significant amount of Wings was given to the Foundation, so they are getting significant amount of each successfully forecasted reward (so this is a lot of money!). And regarding the examples of projects you gave, that’s exactly my point, some reimbursed people, others did not. Ignoring this issue something that only biggest players can afford to do and Wings is not in a position to do something that will further damage it’s reputation. As I said before, Wings will do whatever they want, and the market will verify if it was smart and fair decision.

i disagree with this statement, because:

1. unlike exchanges, wings makes 0 profits from the software or rewards on the software (and believe me i checked this on contract level on more than 20 projects rewards, and i even asked some projects if they paid wings under the table to get listed, and the answer was no).

a more correct example would be - did myetherwallet provide a financial resolution to people that lost money when its dns was hijacked ?
did parity when it was hacked the first or second time ? did ethereum foundation when thedao hack was made possible due to an issue with solidity ?
obviously the answer is no, because they don't profit from users using the software.
unlike these, exchanges make a LOT of money, so they can obviously afford to reimburse users when something happens because of an issue in their system.
perhaps wings should have also charged 0.25% of every transaction side every time something goes through their system

2. to the best of the available knowledge online and the people claims, no tokens were lost due to this issue. the withdrawal was simply not made possible due to a software issue and was delayed (for some people for a few minutes, for others a few hours). would you expect ethereum foundation to refund potential financial loses when you are unable to move tokens due to network overload (which has happened tens of times in ico peak times). this is no different.
 
could wings have handled this issue better ? probably yes.
significantly better ? don't think so

edit - typo fix

Noone denies that it was a technical problem.
Good to know what exactly is an issue and it is good the team disclosed it and took investigating it seriously.
It is the solution that disappoints, though. Your actions simply state: you can not trust our system (or: you should take 100% risk for using our system).

Nothing illegal with that of course.
But it's like with the exchanges Many of them them encounter a technical issues (sometimes hacks, sometimes simply malfunctions).
Some of them are helping their users recoupl their losses, and some are simply saying "well, it was a hack/technical issue, you took the risk".
Too bad that Wings chose the latter path. As I said before, I was not personally affected since my tokens were on the exchange anyway, but I was affected indirectly, because the way this was handled hit Wings's reputation and perhaps indirectly resulted in further price decline.

You can do as you wish, but probably best action here would be:
- apologise instantly
- figure out how many funds were lost and by how many people
- use some of the project's funds to pay back people who lost money because of your bug (you have millions guys, those loses were probably tiny compared to that)
- launch full and transparent internal investigation and publish it's results

You chose different path and you have right to do so, but the crypto community has a right to judge you.
I guess the market in the following months will decide if it is fair in such circumstances to simply blame it on technical issue.

IMO the trust in the project is lost now after all that happened (weird direction with free listings with no rewards, then funds locked in smart contract, then disappointing solution to that).

I will not comment on this matter any further, but I could bet that the following will happen now: the team will continue to ignore the bad PR that this whole thing brought to them, they will continue open sourcing the project (which is good), but they will not spend any money for relevant things like paying people back or marketing or sponsored forecasts etc., they will wait couple of months for people to forget about the projects and they will move to other ventures (which is understandable and standard in startup business, but you should guys at least try fixing that before you move further).

Thanks for clearing it up. I took the liberty to check and it seems to be correct

Thanks for clearing that up!

 The conspiracy ignorance was running rampant    

.

The withdrawal problem was completely unrelated to the delist announcement. What happened is that everyone started unlocking at same time and the backend had to process a lot of transactions, however the backend missed a number of these transactions due to block reogranization on the Ethereum network (https://medium.com/blockvigil/how-we-deal-with-chain-reorganization-at-ethvigil-5a8c06859c7).

The team has started to work on a fix almost instantly after the issue was found and on the next day  a fix was uploaded which allowed the backend to work correctly with the ethereum block reorganization. Just one of the issues you don't know its there until it happens unfortunately.

It used to be very profitable, but right now the profit is zero.
There are no new forecasts and there is no way to profit from this project.
This will probably not change, the ICOs moved to Binance's platform and there is no reason why any ICO would use Wings platform, if they have better options.

Exchanges started delisting Wings token.
And there was this huge issue with people unable to withdraw their Wings from the platform on the day of the delisting announcement.
There are some conspiracy theories that the insiders were withdrawing while regular users could not and they lost a lot of money because of that which was never refunded.
(It might be true, or it might be baseless accusations, but the fact is that people were never paid back.)

Good news is that the devs have millions of dollars. And they are open sourcing the project, so anyone (even you) can use the code.
The real question is are they willing to spend those millions or simply want to wait out and start another project (Wings is not their first project, so they have experience, which is good, but they also have history of abandoning projects and moving to the next one, which is bad).

considering that they did not get out normal projects on the platform for a long time, and all those who made the forecast sell off and go out from the project after delisting from binance. would not consider investments here friend.

I would like to know if participating in Wings forecast is profitable now?
And if it depends of amount how much wings should I have to earn for examlme 10$  equivalent from a forecast approximately ?
And what are the "non-technical" e requiraments (identity verification etc?)

unfortunately this is a dead and coin that scammed us

any adult in this world ---let alone a team would speak out andeventake actions against those speaking negative against them ...

they tooth money through methods viewable --

they will not own up to anything

and do not even keep simple things updated --


my young boy keeps websites updated at 11 ?

they can't even keep twitter on point ?

something is missing

and for us to hope -- when we all lost -- is kinda silly at this point --


we only will be selling to other new suckers ..

unfortunately

know and understand the price is not the most important for the project. but given what is happening on the exchanges, the project is slowly and truly coming to a logical conclusion. the team needs to do something urgently.
the price is already below 900 satoshi. and support levels are only about 300 satoshi. enough to sell at 1-2 bitcoins and the price immediately went to this bottom.

my 2c. yes, its possible people lost opportunity to sell due to this bug. i cheked the telegram group and it seems only about 5 people (which from the texts appear to have no connection with each other) didn't have their problem solved after changing browser and cleaning cache and other offered solutions. it doesn't seem like a lot at all, certainly not enough to claim "conspiracy".
bugs are crap. people also lost money in thedao, parity bug1, parity bug2, and the list goes on and on.
Binance had publically said that no teams are made aware of delisting prior to the announcement. All the info simply doesn't match up even remotely to support the claim that this was somehow a mechanism to prevent people from dumping.

this is yet another reason why i urge wings team to open source as much as possible. i understand why the smart contracts aren't being open sourced, but the front end and maybe parts of the back end could be.

How about you go to the Wings Telegram and scroll up to the date of the delisting announcement and check all those comments from people who are unable to unlock their tokens, while the price tanks? Yes, people lost money. Yes, it seems they were unable to sell, while some big accounts were selling. Those are all facts that you can check on the block explorer and Telegram.

what is the new direction for wings, it's very quite.. nothing is going on here is the reason why wings was delisted from binance. i don not want to see it off from bittrex too. give us updates no matter how small.

You are reaching for some conspiracy, everyone knew about this contract bug and not a single person lost funds.

Delisting was a surprise event to all, especially WINGS team. Yet , here you are ... arguing with legit source, demanding, rambling on with this nonsense about the 'timing' of an simple API smart contract bug in the UI. 

Who hurt you?