[Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 129.

bezzeb

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Quote from: -Redacted- on July 03, 2013, 10:40:40 AM

Quote

Actually I think people were warned to specifically not insulate the top of the chip. I can't remember where, but I distinctly remember reading that a heatsink on top of the chip can actually cause damage. Maybe that was because the pressure of the heatsink can cause chips to come loose from the board or something, but I do remember being warned not to try to exhaust heat out of the top.

The packaging of these chips is tuned to have specific thermal gradient ranges they will operate correctly under - if you actively cool the tops of the chips it can actually end up damaging the chip/ripping loose lead bonds/fracturing the packaging because the temperature differential between the top and bottom of the chip is too large..

You're on the right track, but the risk is mechanical, not thermal. We're not dealing with a huge amount of heat here like you would get with a high end CPU or GPU, and the temperature differential won't do anything exciting. (Unless you were totally bonkers and were using liquid nitrogen or something... badideadontdoit)

These chips are just designed to cool from the bottom, not the top. You can't turn screws with hammers, use the right tools for the job.

Bicknellski

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Quote from: Exoskeleton on July 03, 2013, 09:59:27 PM

The 3M Novec 7000 coolant with a custom enclosure has been at the top of my list of cooling solutions for a while. If we can get a board tested in it and the results are good you can count me in for 2 gallons in a group buy. That is only if a group buy would lower the price by a reasonable amount. Id be curious what the cheapest rate we could get is and perhaps if someone could get a discount for us as well.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/oil-submerged-configurations-discussion-thread-248184

Add your ideas here or just lurk... we are trying to work out a solution for cooling for overclocking using submerged oil cooling.

Exoskeleton

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The 3M Novec 7000 coolant with a custom enclosure has been at the top of my list of cooling solutions for a while. If we can get a board tested in it and the results are good you can count me in for 2 gallons in a group buy. That is only if a group buy would lower the price by a reasonable amount. Id be curious what the cheapest rate we could get is and perhaps if someone could get a discount for us as well.

AMD FTW

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GET IN - Smart Ticket Protocol - Live in market!

Quote from: burnin on July 03, 2013, 08:14:20 PM

Todays status update:

Overall Project status: Working hard to get the boards into Production & final touches to the order website

Development status:
Yesterdays 24hr Burn in was completed with 0,3% HW errors.
Implemented Temperature monitoring today and tested Overclocking capabilities a bit.
20x 256Mhz = 5.120Ghash/s - 36 Watts 142Mhash/W
20x 320Mhz = 6.400Ghash/s - 50 Watts 128Mhash/W

Talked to the guys from Anfi-Tec today to get the watercooling solution going.

>>>>And for all the CAD gurus out there: 3D MODELS<<<<
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl0t2anb000tz8q/3dmodel.zip

Or one could build a custom aquarium for their rigs and stack the PCB's close and use some 3M Novec 7000 coolant. I need to find a cheaper source for this as last year it was around $275 a gallon and now its like $375 a gallon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_X_hgtlJpA

burnin

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ALTCOM Ab9upXvD7ChnJxDRZgMmwNNEf1ftCGWrsE

Todays status update:

Overall Project status: Working hard to get the boards into Production & final touches to the order website

Development status:
Yesterdays 24hr Burn in was completed with 0,3% HW errors.
Implemented Temperature monitoring today and tested Overclocking capabilities a bit.
20x 256Mhz = 5.120Ghash/s - 36 Watts 142Mhash/W
20x 320Mhz = 6.400Ghash/s - 50 Watts 128Mhash/W

Talked to the guys from Anfi-Tec today to get the watercooling solution going.

>>>>And for all the CAD gurus out there: 3D MODELS<<<<
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl0t2anb000tz8q/3dmodel.zip

SebastianJu

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I would like to see the overclocking abilities before i decide if i use burnin or klondike designs.

grabber

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Youmare the man! Cant wait to pick up my boards

Quote from: burnin on July 02, 2013, 12:52:51 PM

Changed that dammed chip and:

SUCCESS!

ujka

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Quote from: bigbeninlondon on July 03, 2013, 02:13:06 PM

Why not stack them according to the design? The front page shows a schematic.

I still want to 'stack' them in a cube:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2362815

In that cube fans are positioned to ensure good airflow both inside the heatsink tunnel, and over the top of the boards.
It's a Klondike design, but I think it can work here, too.

bigbeninlondon

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Quote from: Sophokles on July 03, 2013, 01:59:43 PM

Quote from: knedle on July 03, 2013, 01:20:35 PM

So in short for all those who think about applying some more radiators on top - if it says don't do something, it means don't do something. You can do that if you want, but it's your problem if something goes bad.

Nobody suggested doing this. Question was, is it possible to stack them top towards top, with heatsinks on each bottom side.

Why not stack them according to the design? The front page shows a schematic.

Sophokles

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Quote from: knedle on July 03, 2013, 01:20:35 PM

So in short for all those who think about applying some more radiators on top - if it says don't do something, it means don't do something. You can do that if you want, but it's your problem if something goes bad.

Nobody suggested doing this. Question was, is it possible to stack them top towards top, with heatsinks on each bottom side.

knedle

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So in short for all those who think about applying some more radiators on top - if it says don't do something, it means don't do something. You can do that if you want, but it's your problem if something goes bad.

-Redacted-

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Quote

Actually I think people were warned to specifically not insulate the top of the chip. I can't remember where, but I distinctly remember reading that a heatsink on top of the chip can actually cause damage. Maybe that was because the pressure of the heatsink can cause chips to come loose from the board or something, but I do remember being warned not to try to exhaust heat out of the top.

The packaging of these chips is tuned to have specific thermal gradient ranges they will operate correctly under - if you actively cool the tops of the chips it can actually end up damaging the chip/ripping loose lead bonds/fracturing the packaging because the temperature differential between the top and bottom of the chip is too large..

WynX

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Quote from: bigbeninlondon on July 03, 2013, 04:32:26 AM

Actually I think people were warned to specifically not insulate the top of the chip. I can't remember where, but I distinctly remember reading that a heatsink on top of the chip can actually cause damage. Maybe that was because the pressure of the heatsink can cause chips to come loose from the board or something, but I do remember being warned not to try to exhaust heat out of the top.

He doesn't mean the avalon chips. Other components (capacitors, regulators, etc) need to be slightly cooled too. They don't have vias probably.

bigbeninlondon

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Quote from: Sophokles on July 02, 2013, 04:24:45 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 10:27:04 AM

Quote from: oktar on July 02, 2013, 07:33:09 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 07:05:43 AM

Wow, didnt know that its so featurerich... and all 4! power connectors are for cables that goes horizontal right? The left 3 for sure but im not sure with the right one. But i guess the second right one would be the one to use with a ATX-PSU.

Do you mean the green power connector goes with ATX? I wonder how to split power from ATX to multiple boards, like 14? What additional cables/connectors do we need?

No, the connector on the left side of the green connector. Im not sure what the green connectors cable would look like.
You would most probably split the power from a psu via y-cables.

Quote from: bigbeninlondon on July 02, 2013, 08:07:22 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 07:05:43 AM

Quote from: Sophokles on July 01, 2013, 04:56:13 PM

Putting a heat sink on top will restrict the airflow over the pcb. The pcb has internal copper layers ('ground' is usually designed as a plane) which act as heat spreaders as well.

Do you say the other side of the pcb needs airflow too? I intended to force the airflow from the fans through the heatsinks only to maximize cooling. Do i have to rethink this?

The chips are designed to release heat out of the bottom, and putting a heatsink on the top of the chips can restrict convection and cause the chips to overheat. The top of the board doesn't need additional air flow AFAIK. The fan on the heatsink should create enough airflow around the board that all you need on top is convection for the other parts. That is, don't cover it up, but no need for anything else.

So it doesnt need airflow but then you say the fan will make enough air. But what will happen when i force the airflow ONLY through the heatsink. You know like creating a tunnel. I would like to take 2 miners with heatsink and put them together tight with the heatsinks. Then put a fan on the side and somehow build a tunnel that only allows the air flowing between the ribs of the heatsinks. Im not sure yet what material would be best for this but i think it would greatly effect the cooling because i think otherwise most of the air is going useless the easier way.
So would that be possible or is it needed to put a little bit of the airflow to flow above the other sides of the boards.

The avalon chips will certainly be ok with bottom cooling only, even if the top side is completely insulated. They are designed to release the heat via the bottom. But there might be other components on the board, which might need a slight breeze, to prevent them from getting quite hot (voltage regulators for example).

Actually I think people were warned to specifically not insulate the top of the chip. I can't remember where, but I distinctly remember reading that a heatsink on top of the chip can actually cause damage. Maybe that was because the pressure of the heatsink can cause chips to come loose from the board or something, but I do remember being warned not to try to exhaust heat out of the top.

Chefnet

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Quote from: mutex on July 03, 2013, 12:02:41 AM

Are there any miner hosting services in Germany? Is burnin offering one?

in planning.

mutex

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Are there any miner hosting services in Germany? Is burnin offering one?

tiros

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Just another miner

Quote from: burnin on July 02, 2013, 12:52:51 PM

Changed that dammed chip and:

SUCCESS!

YAY!

What a guy you are Martin.

And also we shouldn't forget the Yifu and his crew for making their design available for modding, so thank you all guys.
Long live Bitcoin and bitcoin community!

Sophokles

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Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 10:27:04 AM

Quote from: oktar on July 02, 2013, 07:33:09 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 07:05:43 AM

Wow, didnt know that its so featurerich... and all 4! power connectors are for cables that goes horizontal right? The left 3 for sure but im not sure with the right one. But i guess the second right one would be the one to use with a ATX-PSU.

Do you mean the green power connector goes with ATX? I wonder how to split power from ATX to multiple boards, like 14? What additional cables/connectors do we need?

No, the connector on the left side of the green connector. Im not sure what the green connectors cable would look like.
You would most probably split the power from a psu via y-cables.

Quote from: bigbeninlondon on July 02, 2013, 08:07:22 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 07:05:43 AM

Quote from: Sophokles on July 01, 2013, 04:56:13 PM

Putting a heat sink on top will restrict the airflow over the pcb. The pcb has internal copper layers ('ground' is usually designed as a plane) which act as heat spreaders as well.

Do you say the other side of the pcb needs airflow too? I intended to force the airflow from the fans through the heatsinks only to maximize cooling. Do i have to rethink this?

The chips are designed to release heat out of the bottom, and putting a heatsink on the top of the chips can restrict convection and cause the chips to overheat. The top of the board doesn't need additional air flow AFAIK. The fan on the heatsink should create enough airflow around the board that all you need on top is convection for the other parts. That is, don't cover it up, but no need for anything else.

So it doesnt need airflow but then you say the fan will make enough air. But what will happen when i force the airflow ONLY through the heatsink. You know like creating a tunnel. I would like to take 2 miners with heatsink and put them together tight with the heatsinks. Then put a fan on the side and somehow build a tunnel that only allows the air flowing between the ribs of the heatsinks. Im not sure yet what material would be best for this but i think it would greatly effect the cooling because i think otherwise most of the air is going useless the easier way.
So would that be possible or is it needed to put a little bit of the airflow to flow above the other sides of the boards.

The avalon chips will certainly be ok with bottom cooling only, even if the top side is completely insulated. They are designed to release the heat via the bottom. But there might be other components on the board, which might need a slight breeze, to prevent them from getting quite hot (voltage regulators for example).

f.baasch75

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Quote from: burnin on July 02, 2013, 12:52:51 PM

Changed that dammed chip and:

SUCCESS!

yeeaaah! brilliant! great work burnin!

I really want to pick up these boards myself and shake hands with this guy!

still fingers crossed!

.
.

considering cooling, more fins will have a significant effect.
I just remember my old 8800GTX which ran more than 100°C with stock cooler and less than 70° with an Accelero Extreme!
I don't know how much of watts that old card needed, but it must have been a lot more.
So I think there is room for optimization with air cooling.

maybe another fan on the other side will help too because it helps the air flowing.

SebastianJu

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You might want to check out the klondike heatsink thread. Someone there had a nice piece of software testing 2 heatsinks. Its a big difference with a heatsink with 10mm and 36mm size. So maybe you can test your theories about different heatsinks with this software if you can get your hands on it?

Quote from: cimpex on July 02, 2013, 03:09:06 PM

Quote from: bigbeninlondon on July 02, 2013, 12:52:32 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 10:27:04 AM

Quote from: oktar on July 02, 2013, 07:33:09 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 07:05:43 AM

Wow, didnt know that its so featurerich... and all 4! power connectors are for cables that goes horizontal right? The left 3 for sure but im not sure with the right one. But i guess the second right one would be the one to use with a ATX-PSU.

Do you mean the green power connector goes with ATX? I wonder how to split power from ATX to multiple boards, like 14? What additional cables/connectors do we need?

No, the connector on the left side of the green connector. Im not sure what the green connectors cable would look like.
You would most probably split the power from a psu via y-cables.

Quote from: bigbeninlondon on July 02, 2013, 08:07:22 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on July 02, 2013, 07:05:43 AM

Quote from: Sophokles on July 01, 2013, 04:56:13 PM

Putting a heat sink on top will restrict the airflow over the pcb. The pcb has internal copper layers ('ground' is usually designed as a plane) which act as heat spreaders as well.

Do you say the other side of the pcb needs airflow too? I intended to force the airflow from the fans through the heatsinks only to maximize cooling. Do i have to rethink this?

The chips are designed to release heat out of the bottom, and putting a heatsink on the top of the chips can restrict convection and cause the chips to overheat. The top of the board doesn't need additional air flow AFAIK. The fan on the heatsink should create enough airflow around the board that all you need on top is convection for the other parts. That is, don't cover it up, but no need for anything else.

So it doesnt need airflow but then you say the fan will make enough air. But what will happen when i force the airflow ONLY through the heatsink. You know like creating a tunnel. I would like to take 2 miners with heatsink and put them together tight with the heatsinks. Then put a fan on the side and somehow build a tunnel that only allows the air flowing between the ribs of the heatsinks. Im not sure yet what material would be best for this but i think it would greatly effect the cooling because i think otherwise most of the air is going useless the easier way.
So would that be possible or is it needed to put a little bit of the airflow to flow above the other sides of the boards.

I believe convection is enough for the top of the board. Just don't plaster over it or cover it with a blanket.

I think the question is if a bottom side heatsink is enough for strong oc.
Maybe its a good idea to use a (bit more expensive) heatsink with a lot of more fins/surface and a 80/92 mm fan for each unit + top side heatsink (w or w/o fan). sandwiched.

should be enough for 70 W.
air cooling is much cheaper than water cooling.

Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 129. (Read 624197 times)