Topic: WTF Avalon? Ship the Chips! - page 4. (Read 45758 times)

Wrong.

They are customers. The person organizing the group buy is just a trader which facilitates the deal between the buyers and the seller. However, the person organizing the group buy have certain obligations to both sides. This obligations is defined in an agreement with the buyers, the trader and the seller.

Apart from my own group buy, I guess all group buys in this forum did not prepared and discussed an agreement with all parties involved. So now that the shit had hit the fan, there is no defined agreement to bring up to a court of law and explain who is responsible for what.

If you guys what your cash back, you have someone who is p*ssed right now with Avalon is on your side. Robin Sidel the journalist at the WSJ made a fool of by the ex-Lehman's broker, is after blood;




--
The Wall Street Journal
TECHNOLOGY
Updated August 11, 2013, 10:11 p.m. ET

Regulator Examines Bitcoin Practices
New York Issues Subpoenas to Firms Tied to Bitcoin.
By ROBIN SIDEL

New York's top banking regulator has issued subpoenas to roughly two dozen companies associated with bitcoin as part of a wide-ranging inquiry into the business practices of the fledgling virtual-currency industry, according to people familiar with the matter.

The subpoenas, from the New York Department of Financial Services, seek information on a range of topics, including antimoney-laundering programs, consumer-protection measures and investment strategies, according to the people..

Subpoenas were sent to firms backed by high-profile Bitcoin investors such as Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss.

The department, led by Benjamin Lawsky, also plans on Monday to issue a memo expressing concern that virtual-currency companies aren't complying with the state's money-transmission laws. As a result, the state is considering setting new guidelines that are specifically aimed at virtual currencies.

"We believe that—for a number of reasons—putting in place appropriate regulatory safeguards for virtual currencies will be beneficial to the long-term strength of the virtual-currency industry," wrote Mr. Lawsky in a draft of the memo reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

Companies that received subpoenas include some of the best-known names in the nascent industry, including Coinbase Inc., BitInstant and Coinsetter.

Executives from Coinbase and BitInstant couldn't be reached for comment on Sunday. Jaron Lukasiewicz, chief executive of Coinsetter, said in an email that the information request is "an opportunity for companies in our space to open up a much needed dialogue with regulators."

He added, "They'll quickly find that most companies are working to legitimize Bitcoin and want to build bridges that help regulators understand and support these financial innovations."

The state agency also sent subpoenas to companies backed by high-profile Bitcoin investors, including venture capitalist Marc Andreessen, and twins Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, who are best known for battling Mark Zuckerberg over ownership of Facebook Inc. FB -0.10% Mr. Andreessen and the Winklevoss brothers couldn't be reached for comment on Sunday.

Bitcoin, the best-known of a crop of virtual currencies, are created in a computer process called "mining." They also can be traded on a number of exchanges or swapped privately among users. Most bitcoin are traded on a Tokyo-based exchange called Mt. Gox, where one bitcoin was valued Friday at roughly $102.

A subpoena is a legal demand for information and doesn't signal wrongdoing by the recipient. The New York banking department sent the subpoenas late last week, according to the people familiar with the matter.

The subpoenas come amid heightened scrutiny from state and federal regulators into the world of virtual currencies. Because virtual currencies aren't backed by a central government like traditional ones are, regulators are worried they can be used for illegal activity or can violate laws involving money transmission.

Federal regulators earlier this year issued guidelines placing virtual-currency exchanges under the same comprehensive antimoney-laundering requirements as traditional money-transmission businesses such as Western Union Co.

Although a growing number of bitcoin exchanges have registered their businesses with the U.S. Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, they have moved more slowly at the state level. In part, that is because the process of getting a license in each of the 48 states that require them is complicated and lengthy. In addition, states also typically require companies to put up a bond that could run as much as several million dollars.

New York has been one of a handful of states aggressively examining the industry. Mr. Lawsky has assembled a team to assess the issue and already sent a warning letter to BitInstant, a New York company that allows customers to buy and sell bitcoins.

"If virtual currencies remain a virtual Wild West for narcotraffickers and other criminals, that would not only threaten our country's national security, but also the very existence of the virtual currency industry as a legitimate business enterprise," according to the memo.

The round of subpoenas also are aimed at gleaning information about how the companies are dealing with individual investors who may be attracted to the novelty of virtual currencies, but may not be sophisticated enough to understand the risk associated with them.

Write to  Robin Sidel at [email protected]

Essentially it gets down to this: Some people believe that legal action may slow things down and even get negative impact if it forces Y(es)I('ve)F(*****)Y(ou)™ to court, instead of letting him to slowly ship chip batches in the future. They see legal action as a revenge, and not as a smart business move at this moment. This is false reasoning IMHO, Yifu has an USA based company and his basic interest is not to be brought to court in the USA, or get permanent arrest order if he tries to step into the USA. Court conviction may permanently damage his future, so if anything can bring him to make some kind of personal or financial sacrifice to deliver what his company is obliged - it's serious legal action. It will not make anything slower. Proper donation for legal support should be organized, let's say everybody should donate 1% of the worth of his chips. 1% of 10 mil. US$ is 100.000 US$, and it should be enough for some serious law firm for considerable time. If anyone who already donated gets his chips during the slow process of legal action, his donation will anyhow go to good cause, helping those who didn't get the chips get their legal satisfaction.

No poll, i only asked it. But i can put the question in again in a couple days. A normal poll wouldnt be good because not only members can take part.

I'm sure she would like to get her own back and redeem her name from the person responsible for throwing mud in her eye, and both using and compromising her career, her contacts and her integrity to manipulate her into this mess!

Ya they are in breach. Where are the developer chips promised in 4 weeks? Where are our chips we ordered right now? When can we reasonably expect all chips ordered to be shipped realistically given the current delays? Do you really think those in June and July orders should have any confidence that Yifu will ship on time given the present state of shipping being 5+ weeks behind?

Please no one should have to wait for information on their chip orders. WHERE ARE OUR CHIPS RIGHT NOW? That has to be answered. If it isn't then we all want refunds I bet. Who believes that there are chips in customs? Which customs? Which country? Seriously the lack of information provided to the group buy leaders is appalling and given that we should not give Avalon the benefit of the doubt.

Giving reports about the facts is a pretty good idea and I think that we can definitely use that as part of our arsenal to get Yifu and Avalon to answer our demands immediately. I think sending that reporter that information right now is a good idea and not to wait for things to shake out days or weeks from now. The longer we wait the less likely Avalon will feel they need to answer our questions and respond to our refund tickets. We can't let people run roughshod over the community and we need to take affirmative action against anyone like this. If we do this successfully we will force companies to really take notice we won't be funding those that basically fail to deliver a product on time as promised and then ignore us when we rightfully demand information. That is the whole problem here the lack of proper information. Any company wishing to do business here in future better damn well be up front and provide relevant information.

Ya SebJu it is a tough situation with so many different ways it could go. I think we need to all strategize this and have a skype meeting or something so that some of us who can will push for refunds while other buy leaders can push for compensation but we can all agree Avalon will not be getting any more BTC from us collectively. Let the boycott start right now.

On the poll i made, around a combined 55% wants a refund and/or take them to court. the remaining are trusting in compensation somehow. (10% says they dont care, i do believe them to be trolls not buying into any group buys)..

Was there are poll? Haven't seen one.

BTW, your group buys 5 and 6 are still under 10 weeks old, so they are not breach of contract. Yet.

You could always leak to the Wall Street Journal that there is a kid called Yifu galavanting around Europe with an ex-Lehman's bankster and $20 million of other people's money, directly manipulating the supply of a now legitimate US recognised currency and dishonestly abusing people's funds for hardware to the point it's worthless.

I'm sure there's at least one reporter that would appreciate the chance to prove her investigative journalism ability exists and would jump at the chance of being able to set the record straight on a conniving bankster...

There's Harriet Agnew and Robin Sidel at the The Wall Street Journal.

Harriet Agnew - Harriet is actually based at eFinacial News - London - [email protected]

This is why the e financial news article was similar but had some more details than the Wall Street Journal Article. No doubt his was very embarrassing for her and she needs the opprtunity to undo the damage.

[email protected] I believe he was the editor or WSJ staff reporter covering this.


If all else fails Teri Buhl (yes that IS actually her name!) is excellent and a friend of Max Keiser, she has already tried to piece this mess together, with some accuracy and some confusion;

http://www.teribuhl.com/2013/08/06/the-mess-the-wsj-made-famed-trader-joe-lewis-not-investing-in-bitcoins/

Make sure you have evidence in a presentable format for them to help them write a worthwhile article this time!!

Since i was mentioned a couple of times... our groupbuy is parted regarding refund. Half would take one, the other not. This might change with time. At the moment the chips still would ROI and a compensation should be given but if the chips are too delayed and he dont want to refund we have to sue him of course.
Im not happy with the situation naturally too. I mean its near that we lost 50% of the income we would have gotten. And thats not funny at all.

Agreed. But we need everyone to bang that drum. Our group buy, that I lead, is complete agreement for a refund so it is easier for us to keep pushing for this I hope other group leaders will respond or they can contact me direct my email is available.

Kev's thread is... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/get-a-refund-from-yifu-for-avalon-chips-270726

Link to thread please?

Groupbuyers aren't actually customers. Only the groupbuy leaders are, so only they can actually take legal action and demand an audience.
However, we can all still continue to spread our story and warn the bitocin community not to do business with them anymore.
(And I obviously mean, beyond these forums... other forums, news articles, blogs, word of mouth.. any means at your disposal)
And we can still also ask authorities to investigate their recent activities

Well I am sure terrahash is busy unlike me and our coop pulling the plug on our build and given the lack of info from YIFU and Avalon we are not going to risk moving forward. I agree totally we need to have Yifu or someone in Avalon immediately inform all group buy leaders about what is really going on with our chips minimally. Personally I have been trying for about 2 weeks plus to get more information and nothing has happened and I even gave a grace period of almost 3 weeks before starting anything as I was waiting for some sort of sign from Avalon and holding out hope that we could get production going if chips were to arrive. Given the lack of proper information it is important to start legal proceedings, make reports to relevant authorities about their breach of contract which many have already done.

I suspect that many leaders of the Group Buys are really just trying to take stock of the situation and are hoping for a miracle on Friday but to be honest we should be working harder right now to pressure Avalon on refunds and getting information. KevinM posted a thread to drum up support for action and I have yet to see that many leaders jump in yet. I will start contact people this week and try to do more about getting us organized but again a large part of the pressure can come directly in the form of members of group buys directly discussing their needs to group buy leaders and joining the boycott on Avalon until we are all compensated and we are provided with proper information. It is time to rattle Avalon's cage with everything we have.

Will yifu be on this list as well?

http://www.interpol.int/Wanted-Persons?lastname=guo&Forenames=&IPSGT_ICPO_Countries=&free=¤t_age_mini=0¤t_age_maxi=100&IPSGT_Sex=&IPSGT_Eyes_Color=&IPSGT_Hair=&IPSGT_Interpol_Office=&wanted_search=

In the least, ALL the group buy leaders need to force Yifus hand and have a face-to-face with him, even if that means getting a lawyer to contact him. Noone needs to necessarily follow through with an entire drawn-out lawsuit but just to let him know people are serious. He is playing some sort of game where he doesn't think is required to communicate with anyone except when he decides to swoop down from Mt. Olympus. Then we can get real answers and work on some sort of damage compensation whether it e refunds, or adjusted chip prices, etc.

TerraHash is about as good with communication as Yifu - if they don't feel like responding, they won't.

Need to get members of group buys as well to push this as well. Yes, pushing this behind the scenes as well but again group buy leaders need feedback before they can make decisions. Terrahash obviously is going forward with his build so I am not sure whether he wants to go for a refund at this time. Members in that buy should be discussing that with him.

Bicknellski, have you tried to directly contact the other group buy leaders and places like TerraHash to organize something? I keep trying to get TerraHash to respond regarding what they are doing to get the ball rolling and I hear absolutely nothing.