Xnode 1002 XC (4x250) online 2 days nonstop, port 32348 open, latest v0.9.2.49.06.XCurrency-REV2., wallet [autonode] ok, 68 active connections, two WAN's 300 Mbps, ping 2-3 msec to ISP,
and ... not even one single mixing transaction in 48 hours !
?!
hmmm...is this just a bad luck?
Or shall I dig deeper for a reason it all goes this way?
Topic: [XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos - page 279. (Read 1484189 times)
September 24, 2014, 11:34:16 AM
September 24, 2014, 11:33:28 AM
I don't know where this discussion is going but I based my buy on the following tweet:
XC @XCurrency 19h
$XC holders will automatically own shares in the #XCurrency ICO without selling #XC!
Was this statement misleading?
XC @XCurrency 19h
$XC holders will automatically own shares in the #XCurrency ICO without selling #XC!
Was this statement misleading?
No , you will get 1 Xinc share per 10 xc you hold.
September 24, 2014, 11:31:51 AM
I don't know where this discussion is going but I based my buy on the following tweet:
XC @XCurrency 19h
$XC holders will automatically own shares in the #XCurrency ICO without selling #XC!
Was this statement misleading?
XC @XCurrency 19h
$XC holders will automatically own shares in the #XCurrency ICO without selling #XC!
Was this statement misleading?
September 24, 2014, 11:23:44 AM
One poster before me (I can not find the post anymore) claimed that the userbase is not growing. I made a screenshot on 09/10/14 (5329 Top N addresses) and 09/20/14 (6241 Top-N addresses). The number of used wallets has grown 17% in 11 days!!!!
Please check these screenshots:
http://imgur.com/OOrHoaK
http://imgur.com/FeivKzz
You can also see that the wealth of the Top-N addresses is decreasing. The distribution of XC is improving dramatically. Around 70k XC moved from the Top 10 addresses to the userbase.
1) The userbase is growing
2) Wealth distribution is going south ....
Please check these screenshots:
http://imgur.com/OOrHoaK
http://imgur.com/FeivKzz
You can also see that the wealth of the Top-N addresses is decreasing. The distribution of XC is improving dramatically. Around 70k XC moved from the Top 10 addresses to the userbase.
1) The userbase is growing
2) Wealth distribution is going south ....
And here we are 4 days later - TOP 10 still shrinking (and dumping on exchanges?):
September 24, 2014, 11:05:50 AM
Let's sketch a scenario:
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future.
XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees
shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future.
If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump.
I think the base of the current discussion is how current XC holders can get some shares (btw: thanks for this)
The risk of P&D is imo based on a timeframe, call it the ICO period or the lock period after coins where used to get shares but it still is just a time period with a fancy name.
Its good to have XC before that timeframe (get shares) and that single purpose will vanish after that time. I know there are many more reasons to hold XC but after that time one of those reasons will go away.
So why not reward XC holders continuously with XC when appropriate (XC inc had its first good year) by sending XC (generates buy pressure) to XC holders at that time?
All i see is added value to a XC coin that can transfer same as the coins itself so only adds value that will not go away.
And no legal link
Or am i missing something, are share/tokens equivalent to something more than monetary gain?
Im dutch so sometimes thats the only thing i think of:)
September 24, 2014, 11:04:20 AM
XC should not be linked to the XC Inc. tokens past distribution.
I think if there is enough reason to have a "stock" then there is enough reason for them to be separate.
If coins are time locked to get the tokens. How would that affect the network since it is POS?
If a large holder decided not to trade for tokens would they get a larger percent of the blocks making 51% type attacks easier? Or does the lock just prevent sending but not staking?
I think if there is enough reason to have a "stock" then there is enough reason for them to be separate.
If coins are time locked to get the tokens. How would that affect the network since it is POS?
If a large holder decided not to trade for tokens would they get a larger percent of the blocks making 51% type attacks easier? Or does the lock just prevent sending but not staking?
September 24, 2014, 10:35:27 AM
Let's sketch a scenario:
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future.
XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees
shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future.
If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump.
Yes. To my mind this works.
That said, my poor mind has been awake way too much. I only got 3 1/2 hours sleep due to all the excitement here.
I need to take a nap. See you later folks. :-)
September 24, 2014, 10:33:17 AM
To avoid dumping its a matter of sequence.
1. First do your internal share offering for the holders of XC currency where they are 'given' shares based on how many XC they hold. Close off 1.
2. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using XC currency only - you could recycle the currency almost straight back to market to avoid price exploding beyond what is sustainable.
3. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using any currency.
This should give a softer landing for XC. IMHO I would skip 3 and only do 1 & 2, much better for everyone.
1. First do your internal share offering for the holders of XC currency where they are 'given' shares based on how many XC they hold. Close off 1.
2. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using XC currency only - you could recycle the currency almost straight back to market to avoid price exploding beyond what is sustainable.
3. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using any currency.
This should give a softer landing for XC. IMHO I would skip 3 and only do 1 & 2, much better for everyone.
Just bumping this because its partly relevant to the current discussion.
Yeah I really like this idea.
My only concern with it at the moment is that if people buy shares with XC, then this will cause XC Inc. to hold a lot of the currency.
I'd prefer it to remain well-distributed.
September 24, 2014, 10:30:08 AM
To avoid dumping its a matter of sequence.
1. First do your internal share offering for the holders of XC currency where they are 'given' shares based on how many XC they hold. Close off 1.
2. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using XC currency only - you could recycle the currency almost straight back to market to avoid price exploding beyond what is sustainable.
3. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using any currency.
This should give a softer landing for XC. IMHO I would skip 3 and only do 1 & 2, much better for everyone.
1. First do your internal share offering for the holders of XC currency where they are 'given' shares based on how many XC they hold. Close off 1.
2. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using XC currency only - you could recycle the currency almost straight back to market to avoid price exploding beyond what is sustainable.
3. Then allow the wider community to purchase shares using any currency.
This should give a softer landing for XC. IMHO I would skip 3 and only do 1 & 2, much better for everyone.
Just bumping this because its partly relevant to the current discussion.
September 24, 2014, 10:29:46 AM
This coin is not saved 
September 24, 2014, 10:29:21 AM
Let's sketch a scenario:
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
prospects is the magic word here, they won't dump if they realise that shares and XC give them different kinds of value in the future.
XC: stake money, xmixer fees . probably web 3.0 serving fees
shares: actual owning part of the company, probably divident payments in the future.
If you can communicate the pros of each and don't tie them in any way i'm not afraid of a dump.
September 24, 2014, 10:23:12 AM
Let's sketch a scenario:
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
My biggest concern at the moment is to avoid causing an XC pump and dump.
The question we'll need to ask ourselves is whether traders will be incentivised to sell XC after ITO. I think it comes down to the following scenario:
- If owning XC before the ITO means I get XC + XC Inc. shares,
- but then holding XC after the ITO means only holding currency,
- does XCurrency thereby lose value after the ITO?
The answer, I think, is that from now until the ITO, XC has double value (i.e. XC + XC Inc. shares), after which it'll go back to having its usual value.
However, this will not provoke me to dump, because:
- if I dump before the ITO I don't get to redeem XC's double-value
- if I dump after the ITO my coins have gone back to their usual value already, so the incentive to dump disappears.
So after the ITO, I imagine that traders will simply choose to hold or dump based on the currency's prospects.
September 24, 2014, 10:21:48 AM
Let me see if i understand this correctly, there will be some day in the future that every XC holder can get (not buy) shares in XC inc.
In the period before everybody has a choice to buy XC inc shares directly or by buying XC before that moment & receive them for free
What i want to know is whats happens after that day? Am i free to spend/trade that 10 XC but can i keep my XC inc share?
If so, isn't there a big risk many outsiders will choice option b, drive the price up, only to dump a day later?
My current thinking is that if you spend/trade your XC, then you loose your share's. In the period before everybody has a choice to buy XC inc shares directly or by buying XC before that moment & receive them for free
What i want to know is whats happens after that day? Am i free to spend/trade that 10 XC but can i keep my XC inc share?
If so, isn't there a big risk many outsiders will choice option b, drive the price up, only to dump a day later?
Dan
September 24, 2014, 10:15:32 AM
i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.
Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?
you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.
they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.
Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before
yeah thats a different story . but since its limited in time you just push some kind of dump in the future. it would be much better to present reasons at that point in time why selling XC the currency would be stupid beyond the obvious reason of xmixer revenue which the shares don't create. but in order to stay different kind of beasts they can't be linked ever.
Yea You are right.
September 24, 2014, 10:14:48 AM
I would like to know who the fuck is always Dumping on Mintpal Puntually after each news release..
September 24, 2014, 10:13:47 AM
i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.
Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?
you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.
they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.
Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before
yeah thats a different story . but since its limited in time you just push some kind of dump in the future. it would be much better to present reasons at that point in time why selling XC the currency would be stupid beyond the obvious reason of xmixer revenue which the shares don't create. but in order to stay different kind of beasts they can't be linked ever.
September 24, 2014, 10:12:10 AM
i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.
Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?
you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.
they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.
Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before
A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC.
Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in worse position than before because you have lost added value.
Yea I meant a "time Lock" as Synechist was suggesting back in the Thread
September 24, 2014, 10:10:14 AM
i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.
Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?
you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.
they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.
Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before
A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC.
Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in worse position than before because you have lost added value.
Yes I think you're correct about this.
I personally don't see sufficient reason to tie XC to XC Inc. shares.
September 24, 2014, 10:08:11 AM
i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.
Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?
you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.
they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.
Yea thanks I did not look it in that way..still might be a wise Idea to do not be able to sell them staright after the ICO maybe... as Synechist was saying before
A "time lock" on them might be a better idea. Because instead of it becoming an amazing thing, great advantages to XC holders, if they are locked into each other you have pretty much nullified any value or use to the shares for anyone who is owning them because they support XC.
Yes there will be some people who buy XC with the intention of selling the shares and coins, or any combination afterwards but it isn't going to be a huge amount. If they remain connected and i want to use the currency for one of the main reasons it was built for to buy stuff, not only am i paying money for the product i wish for, i am also losing shares and money and value. It completely destroys the main purpose of the currency if on spending you are in worse position than before because you have lost added value.
September 24, 2014, 10:05:46 AM
i don't think they should be linked like cryptico suggested. that means everytime you spend xc you losse shares in the company which would put a full break stop on adoption of xc in merchants and turn xc into a share too rather then a currency that is meant to be spend at some point.
Not all Xcs just the one you want to buy shares with ..Hence you will need to decide how much to Invest in the company at the time of the ICO..that makes sense to me.
Edit: just the ones you will use to have your shares Gifted to you...Remember that you r not paying anything for the shares with those XCS so why shuold you be allowed to sell them withouth selling your Share too?
you don't quite get it, the moment they get linked those XCs become a share too essentially. its the worst idea ever to link them. this way you will have too type of XC on the market, the "free" ones and those tide to the shares. people will ask which ones they buy and you will have a third hybrid type of asset the " share tide XC" trading at a different price than the normal XC. nobody wants that.
they should just work out a model to prevent "double claim" during the ito period and then it should be up to those getting the shares what they do with them or the XC they been holding at the time. don't be so afraid of the dump. its supply and demand. if this company comes to live like planned and uses XC for all types of fee payments it will still be attractive to hold XC after the ito.
Hoertest I think you're correct here.
XC coins need to be fungible, and the worst thing for fungibility is if some coins become worth more than others.
XCurrency also has independent fundamentals from XC Inc. Therefore their tokens should be independent.
Both XC and XC Inc. shares need to tradable independently of each other.
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