Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1064. (Read 4671951 times)

To non technical people just comparing the two coins, Dark may seem good enough. And what additionally worries me in a way is that many people thought OS' like Windows would eventually fall away as they were so problematic (e.g. Blue Screen of Death) but money was put into marketing. I was a DBA for Sybase in the 90's and I found it superior (at the time) and easier to use than Oracle. This was both functionally and technically (e.g. File systems on oracle and no raw partitions at the time), yet Oracle slammed Sybase with an inferior product.

The best doesn't win and since market cap / price might be the big attractor (LTC excluded lol), we should be careful with Monero in not "hedging" our bets regarding getting the word out on podcasts and such.

I'm not sure if the huge rise today in DRK is just inside buying but the volume on Poloniex has just shifted from XMR to DRK, so it makes one wonder.

The VHS/beta argument is way overplayed in my view. Yes beta had better picture quality. VHS had longer recording time and lower cost. Does that make one better than the other? Not really. People really felt the recording time and cost were the more important factors. There is no need to resort to arguments about the worse technology winning because of better marketing or suggest that people were being tricked into buying the objectively worse product. Does that ever happen? Maybe, but not nearly as often as the argument is made about beta/vhs for example (and a few others).

Anyway, user-frendliness and good enough marketing that people are at least aware of the solution and its advantages are necessary. I mean you can make the same case about "better anonymity" vs. "ease of use" that I made in the previous paragraph about better picture quality vs recording time. I think this is valid.

DARSH users don't care about theoretical superiority.  Because thinking is like, hard and not cool, and stuff.  Only nerds do that.

They will remain blissfully ignorant until DARSH is broken and they get hurt by losing coins or being thrown in jail for buying illegal botanical products from Nuclear and Abraxus.

We can just wait for whoever compromised Silk Road to do the same to DARSH, or catalyze the process with bounties.  Maybe BCX needs something to do...

I for one can't wait to hear the outcry when the remote killswitch "feature" is used to drain or otherwise exploit their dear, trusted MadoffNodes.  

Let's not make the same mistake as Beta did.

Is this even possible without a privatekey? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/cplovwe?context=3

This is my concern as well and it is multifaceted. First, we have seen the best doesn't always win. e.g., Beta vs VHS, etc. Marketing often has a HUGE role to play, which is why I asked a few times in the last day about getting on a podcast. I don't get the (outward) lack of interest, or have they tried? When I heard security experts speak on podcasts (e.g. Kristov Atlas), he sounded relatively positive on Dark and I'm not sure he said much if anything about XMR (8 months ago or so) as it was relatively unknown imo. In order to make the next big step, it DOESN'T MATTER if you are the best but being great sure will help. Yeah, tech guys will eventually find out (they still have Beta VCR's at home  ) but the common man likely won't. So, in a way: we, the developers, anyone with an interest in Monero - would be wise to pass the word on and go out there with the message. This isn't exclusively about $$$ return either. It is primarily about making sure the best anonymous coin gets used and with good reason. It is in the best interests of the alphabet agencies to make sure the best doesn't win. Chew on that.

I really don't think many know if Monero is better than Dark, from a technical standpoint - they don't look deeply, they just go with the biggest market cap (Perhaps another fork changes that, what the 4th one now?). This reminds me of AOL. Those damn cd's were every where and me being an IT guy at the time thought "Who the hell is going to use these? I can connect easily by putting in the information. No big deal." Well, let's not make the same mistake twice, just as BTC needs that perfect app, so to speak, to hit the masses, Monero needs something akin to that to get the word out there with potential crypto users. I speak to a lot of people due to my job, lots of relatively intelligent people (lots of I.T. guys and business professionals). I know of 2 out of 50 who knew anything worth mentioning about BTC. One had a few. Those who even have a clue about BTC, mostly have little clue about alts.

We are in the early days here, and Marketing, unfortunately, is going to play AT LEAST as big a role as the technology. Mark it.
Let's not make the same mistake as Beta did. And, btw, much thanks to Risto, developers who are here, etc. I am not meaning to talk down to anyone. I'm just trying to bring something that I have almost a knowing of, to the attention of others. I's sure there is some kind of plan, so again, I am not meaning this derogatorily. Having worked in IT it is clear IT guys that are people persons are hard to find. You often need to go out and get someone like that to help do that "non technical" work.

Its about sharing

         

*INB4 ItsHappening.gif*

A. fiat -> monero

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-XMR-Monero-like-Litecoin-Ripple-Darkcoin-U-S-seller-/121600620272?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4ff636f0

ebay. Its a hack, but it...... works.

B. Finally found (or the universe presented) the solution to the "how do I really keep my shopping private with monero" problem, considering anything you buy online will be shipping to you.

Say hello to roadie

https://www.roadie.com/

this little peer to peer company is trying to disrupt shipping. So how is this used in the monero private online shopping economy?

1. network of "shyptos" would exist (shypto is a horrible portmanteau of ship, cryptography, and shop. It might not be the best. Maybe shoptopgraphy)
2. Alice wants to buy something from amazon, but doesn't want anyone to know about it. And she means ANYONE.
3. Alice goes to shypto network and places a buy ticket - basically lists the item she wants. Someone from shypto network claims that ticket (bob), engages with Alice via some secure, encrypted messaging system. Main information that needs to be sent Alice -> shypto member is the destination wafflehouse (yes, because wafflehouse is involved in the roadie system) http://techcrunch.com/2015/02/24/waffle-house-partners-with-roadie/#lcX6TT:1i6d
3b. Alice and Bob work out some way to trust each other re: reimbursement.
4. Bob orders the item from amazon (using FIAT!!), has it shipped to his house. based on whatever he and alice figured out, he proves to alice he bought it (or alice had paid upfront, whatever). Alice then sends the XMR payment to Bob.
5. Bob then finds a gig on Roadie to deliver the package. He drops it off at the wafflehouse, roadie person drives it from bobs wafflehouse to alice's wafflehouse.
6. Alice picks up her package at the wafflehouse.

And there yah have it. Alice now bought something from amazon, and only Bob really knows what it is, but bob really doesn't know who Alice is, because Alice contacted bob on some anonymouse straw purchase network website and alice paid with monero, so....

I think its this one:

This is a very interesting topic.  If a solution was found, a much better, easier, more convenient implementation of Bitcoin would be possible.

Originally, a coin can be just a chain of signatures.  With a timestamp service, the old ones could be dropped eventually before there's too much backtrace fan-out, or coins could be kept individually or in denominations.  It's the need to check for the absence of double-spends that requires global knowledge of all transactions.

The challenge is, how do you prove that no other spends exist?  It seems a node must know about all transactions to be able to verify that.  If it only knows the hash of the in/outpoints, it can't check the signatures to see if an outpoint has been spent before.  Do you have any ideas on this?

It's hard to think of how to apply zero-knowledge-proofs in this case.

We're trying to prove the absence of something, which seems to require knowing about all and checking that the something isn't included.

btw xmr.to is getting some well deserved attention:

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/579092073875308545

I would like to help translate to the languages I speak, when such platform is available I'm sure it will make Monero website and wallets much more accessible.

btw xmr.to is getting some well deserved attention:

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/579092073875308545

We're going to find out the hard way that Bitcoin will get outcompeted by currencies like Monero and Zerocash if we don't act to get better anonymity and privacy into Bitcoin itself.

Maybe we can get someone that lives somewhere where regulation is a bit more lax to create a XMR/USD exchange.

I really don't think many know if Monero is better than Dark, from a technical standpoint - they don't look deeply, they just go with the biggest market cap (Perhaps another fork changes that, what the 4th one now?). This reminds me of AOL. Those damn cd's were every where and me being an IT guy at the time thought "Who the hell is going to use these? I can connect easily by putting in the information. No big deal." Well, let's not make the same mistake twice, just as BTC needs that perfect app, so to speak, to hit the masses, Monero needs something akin to that to get the word out there with potential crypto users. I speak to a lot of people due to my job, lots of relatively intelligent people (lots of I.T. guys and business professionals). I know of 2 out of 50 who knew anything worth mentioning about BTC. One had a few. Those who even have a clue about BTC, mostly have little clue about alts.

We are in the early days here, and Marketing, unfortunately, is going to play AT LEAST as big a role as the technology. Mark it.

The fact there are SO MANY people who are willing to buy into a platform with SEVERE problems worries me.  Because if people can't understand why DRK is bad, then how will they understand why Monero is good?

anyone speak chinese?

Considering that Coinbase is valued at more than $400M (approximately 100x the market cap of Monero), and Circle and Buttercoin are probably valued at least $5-10M (something greater than the ~$4M market cap of Monero), I don't think Monero is quite ready for this type of full service, nationwide fiat-to-crypto conversion. It'd be nice, but I think it costs a bit much relative to the worth of all the Monero currently available...

Just existing isn't good enough you need liquidity to have an exchange. You'd be better of setting up something like a local bitcoins seller where you accept fiat and then buy back your xmr on market.