[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1425.

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: myagui on September 19, 2014, 10:43:33 AM

@fluffy, awesome intro on the openalias project.

Can you please check if I've configured an XMR alias correctly at the following DNS location:
myagui.monujo.com

It's not a secured domain or anything at this time, I just wanted to check if I got the implementation basics right.
Thanks!
~ Myagui

100% -

[ ric->bitmonero ]$ host -t TXT myagui.monujo.com myagui.monujo.com descriptive text "oa1:xmr recipient_address=41goTv5ma7GZeiRKfdNisLGHPbYTPxtMs3mjH8NExEneNB2s9fasBrehsoMRESpJApXqcvqn7PMU3W1SpjNokA1a9d7ujyr\; recipient_name=Myagui\;"

Looks good, and -

[wallet 48NGTd]: transfer 0 myagui.monujo.com 10 For URL: myagui.monujo.com,DNSSEC validation FAILED! Monero Address = 41goTv5ma7GZeiRKfdNisLGHPbYTPxtMs3mjH8NExEneNB2s9fasBrehsoMRESpJApXqcvqn7PMU3W1 SpjNokA1a9d7ujyr Is this OK? (Y/n)

oda.krell

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1007

Quote from: aminorex on September 19, 2014, 10:53:29 AM

Quote from: rpietila on September 19, 2014, 04:41:46 AM

Might be good for someone to compare XMR price development over the two days to other altcoins. Might well be that the effect of FUD is not even existent...

Quick scan: Over that period the range of LTC was 2.5%, XMR 13.6%, BBR 27.4%, XCN 34.5%, and all are within 10% of the range closest to their lows over the period.

What I see is that PoW non-app coins (pure currencies) generally, whether CN or BTC based, have declined in degree best indicated by their market cap.

My intuition: There is no FUD effect. It is pure imagination. The price is down because bitcoin.

My conjecture is that hot money is flowing out of bitcoin into US stocks (BABA) and GBP bets. This is ADHD money we're talking about. I give it a week or so, before btc bottoms. Unless there is an exogenous jump it would be reasonable to expect continuing XMR\BTC decay. Yet I am unwilling to sell for a turn-around, simply because the scale and likelihood of a positive shock is too large. The market cap is too small. One buyer can double the price forever in 20 seconds or less. I can't risk that.

I'm not above trading BTC comparably aggressive (after all, some of those profits then go into anon coins like XMR), but agreed on what you write here: Unless you trade rather small amounts (and can get in and out without slippage, and are nimble enough to jump back in on short notice), it makes little sense to trade the current swings that are largely secondary effects to XMR's older brother Bitcoin. Small correction maybe: It does make sense if you aren't attached to your XMR position, as in: if you're skimming off profits in USD only. If your goal is increasing an already non-trivial XMR stash, I find it hard to believe this can be achieved by swing trading, given the current market conditions.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: OrientA on September 19, 2014, 11:05:14 AM

The money which can flow out of BTC is too small compared to the one in stock market/foreign exchanges.

You are using opposite logic. It leads to bizarro results. GBP and BABA are enormous. They are sucking the air out of every room, no matter how tiny it is.
Yes, the money flowing from crypto into legacy is tiny compared to the size of the BABA IPO. That fact is not in any way relevant to the conclusion you are drawing.

An example of a reasonable inference: BTC is tiny. Therefore the money flowing out of BTC into BABA will not significantly impact the price of BABA.
An example of an unreasonable inference: BTC is tiny. Therefore the money flowing out of BTC into BABA will not significantly impact the price of BTC.
A drop in the ocean may not mean anything to the ocean, but it does mean a big lifestyle change for the drop.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: OrientA on September 19, 2014, 11:05:14 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 10:57:20 AM

Quote from: aminorex on September 19, 2014, 10:53:29 AM

My conjecture is that hot money is flowing out of bitcoin into US stocks (BABA) and GBP bets. This is ADHD money we're talking about. I give it a week or so, before btc bottoms. Unless there is an exogenous jump it would be reasonable to expect continuing XMR\BTC decay. Yet I am unwilling to sell for a turn-around, simply because the scale and likelihood of a positive shock is too large. The market cap is too small. One buyer can double the price forever in 20 seconds or less. I can't risk that.

There is also a conjecture I've heard that Ethereum is dumping a lot. Why they would be in such a hurry to sell I have no idea. Maybe they got a bill from their lawyer.

I think Ethereum story is more credible. The money which can flow out of BTC is too small compared to the one in stock market/foreign exchanges.

Another one is China money (and I suppose some non-China money) flowing out to speculate on the Alibaba IPO.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see that was already mentioned a few quoted levels back.

OrientA

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 10:57:20 AM

Quote from: aminorex on September 19, 2014, 10:53:29 AM

My conjecture is that hot money is flowing out of bitcoin into US stocks (BABA) and GBP bets. This is ADHD money we're talking about. I give it a week or so, before btc bottoms. Unless there is an exogenous jump it would be reasonable to expect continuing XMR\BTC decay. Yet I am unwilling to sell for a turn-around, simply because the scale and likelihood of a positive shock is too large. The market cap is too small. One buyer can double the price forever in 20 seconds or less. I can't risk that.

There is also a conjecture I've heard that Ethereum is dumping a lot. Why they would be in such a hurry to sell I have no idea. Maybe they got a bill from their lawyer.

I think Ethereum story is more credible. The money which can flow out of BTC is too small compared to the one in stock market/foreign exchanges.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: aminorex on September 19, 2014, 10:53:29 AM

My conjecture is that hot money is flowing out of bitcoin into US stocks (BABA) and GBP bets. This is ADHD money we're talking about. I give it a week or so, before btc bottoms. Unless there is an exogenous jump it would be reasonable to expect continuing XMR\BTC decay. Yet I am unwilling to sell for a turn-around, simply because the scale and likelihood of a positive shock is too large. The market cap is too small. One buyer can double the price forever in 20 seconds or less. I can't risk that.

There is also a conjecture I've heard that Ethereum is dumping a lot. Why they would be in such a hurry to sell I have no idea. Maybe they got a bill from their lawyer.

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 10:18:31 AM

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 10:16:39 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 09:31:31 AM

{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
}

Different version with two inputs:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   input(a2(4 XMR),f4(4 XMR),f5(4 XMR),f6(4 XMR),keyimage(priv(a2)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(5 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a2),pub(f4),pub(f5),pub(f6),keyimage(priv(a2)))
}

Can I use foreign unspent output or this public keys are not known ?

Yes you can use unspent outputs. There is no unspent hash format in the blockchain the way there is for bitcoin.

Looks, it is good. :-) Thank you for your time. I must absorb new information.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: rpietila on September 19, 2014, 04:41:46 AM

Might be good for someone to compare XMR price development over the two days to other altcoins. Might well be that the effect of FUD is not even existent...

Quick scan: Over that period the range of LTC was 2.5%, XMR 13.6%, BBR 27.4%, XCN 34.5%, and all are within 10% of the range closest to their lows over the period.

What I see is that PoW non-app coins (pure currencies) generally, whether CN or BTC based, have declined in degree best indicated by their market cap.

My intuition: There is no FUD effect. It is pure imagination. The price is down because bitcoin.

My conjecture is that hot money is flowing out of bitcoin into US stocks (BABA) and GBP bets. This is ADHD money we're talking about. I give it a week or so, before btc bottoms. Unless there is an exogenous jump it would be reasonable to expect continuing XMR\BTC decay. Yet I am unwilling to sell for a turn-around, simply because the scale and likelihood of a positive shock is too large. The market cap is too small. One buyer can double the price forever in 20 seconds or less. I can't risk that.

myagui

legendary

Activity: 1154

Merit: 1001

Quote from: fluffypony on September 19, 2014, 09:55:36 AM

We're starting the #Monero-Dev Fireside Chat #2 shortly, just a reminder for those that want to watch -

https://plus.google.com/b/101861896996947433029/events/c8094ts82ggh0mpkffu4ja5kohg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gH2ndAAkE

@fluffy, awesome intro on the openalias project.

Can you please check if I've configured an XMR alias correctly at the following DNS location:
myagui.monujo.com

It's not a secured domain or anything at this time, I just wanted to check if I got the implementation basics right.
Thanks!
~ Myagui

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: ?? on ??

its already fairy accepted.

not that there's anything wrong with that.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 07:02:01 AM

I found the inclusion of CZ to be bizarre

I don't see why the Czech Republic shouldn't get a voice.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 10:16:39 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 09:31:31 AM

{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
}

Different version with two inputs:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   input(a2(4 XMR),f4(4 XMR),f5(4 XMR),f6(4 XMR),keyimage(priv(a2)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(5 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a2),pub(f4),pub(f5),pub(f6),keyimage(priv(a2)))
}

Can I use foreign unspent output or this public keys are not known ?

Yes you can use unspent outputs. There is no unspent hash format in the blockchain the way there is for bitcoin.

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 09:31:31 AM

{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
}

Different version with two inputs:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   input(a2(4 XMR),f4(4 XMR),f5(4 XMR),f6(4 XMR),keyimage(priv(a2)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(5 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a2),pub(f4),pub(f5),pub(f6),keyimage(priv(a2)))
}

Can I use foreign unspent output or this public keys are not known ?

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

We're starting the #Monero-Dev Fireside Chat #2 shortly, just a reminder for those that want to watch -

https://plus.google.com/b/101861896996947433029/events/c8094ts82ggh0mpkffu4ja5kohg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gH2ndAAkE

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 09:25:24 AM

Quote

No there is one signature for each input and the key images are not included in the outputs

In this case (key images are not included in the outputs), how do you want to prevent DOUBLE spend ?

whitepaper LNK

Quote

LNK: The verifer checks if "keyImage" has been used in past signatures (these values are stored in the set ).
Multiple uses imply that two signatures were produced under the same secret key.

I will sign again and again same input.

Because I made an error (omission). The key images are indeed not included with the outputs, they are included with the inputs.

Corrected:
{

  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
}

Different version with two inputs:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR),keyimage(priv(a1)))
   input(a2(4 XMR),f4(4 XMR),f5(4 XMR),f6(4 XMR),keyimage(priv(a2)))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(5 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a2),pub(f4),pub(f5),pub(f6),keyimage(priv(a2)))
}

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 09:01:53 AM

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 08:53:38 AM

Are you trying to confuse me ?

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR), keyimage(priv(a1)))
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f1))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f2))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f3))
}

No there is one signature for each input and the key images are not included in the outputs

That transaction above has one input (with a mix factor of 4), so it would have one sig. Some corrected examples:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
}

Different version with two inputs:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
   input(a2(4 XMR),f4(4 XMR),f5(4 XMR),f6(4 XMR))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(5 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a2),pub(f4),pub(f5),pub(f6),keyimage(priv(a2))
}

In this case (key images are not included in the outputs), how do you want to prevent DOUBLE spend ?

whitepaper LNK

Quote

LNK: The verifer checks if "keyImage" has been used in past signatures (these values are stored in the set ).
Multiple uses imply that two signatures were produced under the same secret key.

I will sign again and again same input.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 08:53:38 AM

Are you trying to confuse me ?

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR), keyimage(priv(a1)))
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f1))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f2))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f3))
}

No there is one signature for each input and the key images are not included in the outputs

That transaction above has one input (with a mix factor of 4), so it would have one sig. Some corrected examples:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
}

Different version with two inputs:

tx{
  prefix= {
   input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
   input(a2(4 XMR),f4(4 XMR),f5(4 XMR),f6(4 XMR))
   output(r1(3 XMR),c1(5 XMR)) ; fee 1 XMR
  }
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
  sign(tx_prefix,pub(a2),pub(f4),pub(f5),pub(f6),keyimage(priv(a2))
}

Quicken

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

It has been tricky to follow the various sub-threads here over the last couple of days, but here are a few points regarding development funding.

1) As a moderately large holder, I am planning to join MEW ASAP with a 100 XMR donation, half of which will go to the devs. Hopefully MEW will raise a fair chunk collectively.
2) As a miner, I'd be happy if more of the mining fees, and/or transaction fees went to the developers rather than miners directly. I do mine on a pool that donates to the devs.
3) I mine based not on the current value, but the potential future value of XMR (say 10x current value). Perhaps the devs could consider donations in the same light (assuming you're able to hold)?
4) I'm not in favour of changing the emission schedule at this stage.

Q

Odalv

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 08:09:33 AM

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 08:00:00 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 07:49:57 AM

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 07:34:29 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 07:26:30 AM

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 07:21:33 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 07:12:10 AM

Quote from: Odalv on September 19, 2014, 06:36:38 AM

So miner(or anybody) knows sum of all spent inputs and outputs ?

The ins and outs each have amounts, so you can add that up.

Quote

Am I right ?

Transaction
input(a1=5 XMR, random=6 XMR) output( g1=3 XMR, a3=1 XMR, keyImage_a1 )
ringSing(pub a1, pub random and private a1)

using VER and LNK everybody can verify that a1 holds 5 XMR, so I'm able to spend 4 XMR and miner can take 1 XMR fee ?

implies a1 was used (because I can't spend random)
implies a1_priv * H_p(A1_pub) = keyImage_a1

Am I missing something ?

I'm not sure of your notation here Is 'random' a foreign output used for a ring sig? In that case, that's not how it works. Each input uses a separate ring sig, with other outputs of the same same.

And what does g1 (or a3 for that matter) denote on your output?

yes I want use "foreign output used for a ring sig" to obscure transaction. I'll pull it from block chain.
g1(I pay for god) and a3(my new address) does not matter.

Okay well like I said, each input will have it own set of foreign outputs used for mixing. Such outputs will all be of the same size, so this doesn't change the amount of the transaction, just its possible funding sources. Perhaps you want to revise your example?

Please can you make example:
1) I have unspent output 5 XMR, I want to pay 3 XMR for goods and 1 XMR transaction fee.
2) I want obscure my payment with 1 foreign input what holds 6 XMR.

You can't do #2 with the the protocol works today. There is a modification from gmaxwell that allows using foreign outputs of different sizes but it isn't implemented anywhere AFAIK.

Your foreign ouputs need to be of the same size.

So we would have (borrowing some of your notation)

tx(input(ring(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR)) -> output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR)))

a1 = our own upspent output
f1..f3 = foreign outputs of size equal to a1
r1 = output owned by recipient
c1 = change output owned by us

We could also include additional inputs (and generate more change) if we wanted to further obscure the amount of the transaction.

Did you forgot to add keyImage for a1 ? Or how can be this transaction verified ?

I wasn't including an actual signature here at all. I thought we were discussing transaction fees.

The tranasction prefix -- which consists of what we normally think of as the tranasction (inputs and outputs) -- gets signed using public keys from a1,f1..f3 and a key image derived from the private key of a1

sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1)) -> signature

There is one such signature for each input. These are then included in the transaction along with the transaction prefix.

Are you trying to confuse me ?

tx{
prefix= {
input(a1(5 XMR),f1(5 XMR),f2(5 XMR),f3(5 XMR))
output(r1(3 XMR),c1(1 XMR), keyimage(priv(a1)))
}
sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(a1))
sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f1))
sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f2))
sign(tx_prefix,pub(a1),pub(f1),pub(f2),pub(f3),keyimage(priv(f3))
}