[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1635.

sammy007

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1003

Quote from: hitbtc on July 16, 2014, 06:04:17 AM

Hi! Hitbtc team here.
As you remember, several days ago we launched a new campaign:
Now everyone can send us bug reports or usability improvements.

Thank you for taking a part in this campaign. We now have more than 10 e-mails with different suggestions or reports.
For now all of them are currently under investigation. Once this process is complete, we’ll send out rewards.
But the first rewards have already been transfered!
The campaign is not over, so send your bug reports or usability improvements to [email protected] to get your reward:
• 100 XMR for a bug report;
• 50 XMR for any accepted usability improvement.
Get your reward – get in touch with us.

I will flood you.

hitbtc

sr. member

Activity: 525

Merit: 250

Hi! Hitbtc team here.
As you remember, several days ago we launched a new campaign:
Now everyone can send us bug reports or usability improvements.

Thank you for taking a part in this campaign. We now have more than 10 e-mails with different suggestions or reports.
For now all of them are currently under investigation. Once this process is complete, we’ll send out rewards.
But the first rewards have already been transfered!
The campaign is not over, so send your bug reports or usability improvements to [email protected] to get your reward:
• 100 XMR for a bug report;
• 50 XMR for any accepted usability improvement.
Get your reward – get in touch with us.

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: lordoliver on July 16, 2014, 03:10:55 AM

Quote from: equipoise on July 16, 2014, 03:08:05 AM

^It's not in the blockchain. Did you sent it with the current version from the OP? If you are using two months old version it's not sent with the right fee.

this is now the third question...

bitmonero wallet v0.8.9.65()
[wallet 48x3TT]: transfer 0

0.5 bd293b224aae610835121bd2b0b5887e45ada62da4ff3467bfc3f65a42652d21
Money successfully sent, transaction <8baa3bc1d4d98a3c83c5d8872ab26152a280115d8f77823a76333ff6e50463f4>
[wallet 48x3TT]: refresh
Starting refresh...
Refresh done, blocks received: 502
balance: 863.279174920000, unlocked balance: 862.932625920000

is the version too new?

No, it's too old (despite the misleading version numbers). You're using a version of Monero that is NOT by us and is not up-to-date with the latest changes. Only use versions of Monero linked in the OP or on the website.

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 15, 2014, 12:32:30 PM

Quote from: rpietila on July 15, 2014, 10:54:06 AM

From economical perspective, 100 years of growth at 2% APR is 624% per century. Granted, century is a long time, but also the current system with its wasteful resource acquisition and general footprint on pristine nature, cannot continue 1-2 more centuries with this growth rate.

On the other hand, gold production of about 1.2% (historically higher ~2%) can be regarded as near optimal, because gold has held its value vs. oil in the last decades.

The larger the annual % of your money supply that you spend on mining, then assuming your mining hasn't been destroyed with ASICs as is the case for Bitcoin, then the more new people can come into the coin via mining.

Mining could be the most efficient way to introduce new users to the coin, as it doesn't require AML, KYC, fraudulent exchanges, etc..

Do you want a Mt.Gox and Coinbase driving your coin's adoption, or do you want to get the coins directly to them?

Directly, of course. Show me a coin that is even near this ideal, I have a unicorn for sale. I could set up a miner and earn $20 per month, expending only $30 in electricity, except I couldn't (I can't even delete a file). The economies of the coins need people like me so the way to purchase them with existing stored value must always to be available

I argue that the bolded part falls apart in the equation I = N * A, (inflation = number * average), though. Which is a pity:

To have a coin with manageable inflation, the product of the number of individual miners and their average reward must be contained. Therefore there is no incentive for anyone capable to become a miner, and the ones not capable.. well, they cannot.

Technically and economically astute people have a high minimum transaction cost in their life. $20 per month is not enough. The ones who drool over the idea of receiving $20, are not in the position to get even that Sad

If they were, the formula above would take it to $2.

Quote from: rpietila on July 15, 2014, 10:54:06 AM

This is a really important matter. A 1%-point fail can easily destroy the coin.

Quote

You think I haven't been working eh. Wink

See PM.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: HardwarePal on July 16, 2014, 03:49:21 AM

Tx fees are based on the original money supply.

No additional coin production + lost coins etc would cause exactly that deflation in the supply which would cause inflation on the price (value increase).

It isn't the value issue I have with transaction fees, it is the fact that for transaction fees to exceed marginal costs (i.e. to serve as a funding source for proof-of-work), mining has to be monopolized, and then other problems flow from there. I can't believe that is what Satoshi intended.

I know there is a comment or two from him where he considered the whole mining model to be a bit unfinished, so perhaps he just solved what he could and then moved on.

HardwarePal

hero member

Activity: 565

Merit: 500

Tx fees are based on the original money supply. (After total coin supply has been mined)

No additional coin production + lost coins etc would cause exactly that deflation in the supply which would cause inflation on the price (value increase).

Edit : Sorry for any syntax errors or wrong wording

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: HardwarePal on July 16, 2014, 03:41:43 AM

Quote from: smooth on July 16, 2014, 03:40:38 AM

Quote from: rpietila on July 16, 2014, 03:26:48 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Gold is well approved, and its inflation has stayed at about 0%-2% for millennia

I think what was meant here was the reward model in bitcoin. The soundness of relying on transaction fees to incentivize mining is doubted by many, including me.

I wish we had more from Satoshi on why he thought that could possibly work, because it seems so crazy that my initial reaction is to assume I'm missing some important point.

Value increase I would suppose

Value increase supports a declining nominal reward, and yes that fits with the deflationary model, but transaction fees is something else entirely.

HardwarePal

hero member

Activity: 565

Merit: 500

Quote from: smooth on July 16, 2014, 03:40:38 AM

Quote from: rpietila on July 16, 2014, 03:26:48 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Gold is well approved, and its inflation has stayed at about 0%-2% for millennia

I think what was meant here was the reward model in bitcoin. The soundness of relying on transaction fees to incentivize mining is doubted by many, including me.

I wish we had more from Satoshi on why he thought that could possibly work, because it seems so crazy that my initial reaction is to assume I'm missing some important point.

Value increase I would suppose

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: rpietila on July 16, 2014, 03:26:48 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Gold is well approved, and its inflation has stayed at about 0%-2% for millennia

I think what was meant here was the reward model in bitcoin. The soundness of relying on transaction fees to incentivize mining is doubted by many, including me.

I wish we had more from Satoshi on why he thought that could possibly work, because it seems so crazy that my initial reaction is to assume I'm missing some important point.

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Gold is well approved, and its inflation has stayed at about 0%-2% for millennia

Since antiquity, the amount of gold has roughly gone up 100x. This is equal to 0.23% average APR.

I will continue in the Monero economics thread.

HardwarePal

hero member

Activity: 565

Merit: 500

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on July 16, 2014, 03:11:23 AM

Quote from: HardwarePal on July 16, 2014, 02:20:31 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2014, 01:23:40 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

I am starting to realize that it is probably wise not to rock the boat in this respect. It's probably not that big of a deal anyway and we could scare off untold numbers of people with talk of perpetual inflation of any sort.

Definitely not wise to rock the boat.

Perpetual inflation - a death sentence.

I live in Cyprus btw. Roll Eyes

Feel free to explain yourself. We need some type of inflation to keep transaction fees from escalating. I prefer a fixed percentage inflation, and have argued my reasons plenty here and in the economy thread. It solves a number of problems.

That is a very tricky question.

Is Monero a :
a) store of value
b) medium of exchange
c) both

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Quote from: HardwarePal on July 16, 2014, 02:20:31 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2014, 01:23:40 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

I am starting to realize that it is probably wise not to rock the boat in this respect. It's probably not that big of a deal anyway and we could scare off untold numbers of people with talk of perpetual inflation of any sort.

Definitely not wise to rock the boat.

Perpetual inflation - a death sentence.

I live in Cyprus btw. Roll Eyes

Feel free to explain yourself. We need some type of inflation to keep transaction fees from escalating. I prefer a fixed percentage inflation, and have argued my reasons plenty here and in the economy thread. It solves a number of problems.

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Quote from: equipoise on July 16, 2014, 03:08:05 AM

^It's not in the blockchain. Did you sent it with the current version from the OP? If you are using two months old version it's not sent with the right fee.

this is now the third question...

bitmonero wallet v0.8.9.65()
[wallet 48x3TT]: transfer 0

0.5 bd293b224aae610835121bd2b0b5887e45ada62da4ff3467bfc3f65a42652d21
Money successfully sent, transaction <8baa3bc1d4d98a3c83c5d8872ab26152a280115d8f77823a76333ff6e50463f4>
[wallet 48x3TT]: refresh
Starting refresh...
Refresh done, blocks received: 502
balance: 863.279174920000, unlocked balance: 862.932625920000

is the version too new?

equipoise

hero member

Activity: 794

Merit: 1000

Monero (XMR) - secure, private, untraceable

^It's not in the blockchain. Did you sent it with the current version from the OP? If you are using two months old version it's not sent with the right fee.

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Quote from: phzi on July 16, 2014, 02:51:45 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on July 16, 2014, 02:49:57 AM

Quote from: equipoise on July 16, 2014, 02:47:29 AM

^About what?

its still not sent but locked.

Wait a while. Sometimes spends can take a bit. I've had to wait up to an hour for a large (in bytes) transaction to confirm when the network was busy.

I waited for 500 blocks since a lot of hours already...

phzi

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: lordoliver on July 16, 2014, 02:49:57 AM

Quote from: equipoise on July 16, 2014, 02:47:29 AM

^About what?

its still not sent but locked.

Wait a while. Sometimes spends can take a bit. I've had to wait up to an hour for a large (in bytes) transaction to confirm when the network was busy.

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Quote from: equipoise on July 16, 2014, 02:47:29 AM

^About what?

its still not sent but locked.

equipoise

hero member

Activity: 794

Merit: 1000

Monero (XMR) - secure, private, untraceable

^About what?

lordoliver

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1020

expect(brain).toHaveBeenUsed()

Code:

bitmonero wallet v0.8.9.65()
[wallet 48x3TT]: transfer 0

0.5 bd293b224aae610835121bd2b0b5887e45ada62da4ff3467bfc3f65a42652d21
Money successfully sent, transaction <8baa3bc1d4d98a3c83c5d8872ab26152a280115d8f77823a76333ff6e50463f4>
[wallet 48x3TT]: refresh
Starting refresh...
Refresh done, blocks received: 502
balance: 863.279174920000, unlocked balance: 862.932625920000

what can I do?

HardwarePal

hero member

Activity: 565

Merit: 500

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2014, 01:23:40 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

I am starting to realize that it is probably wise not to rock the boat in this respect. It's probably not that big of a deal anyway and we could scare off untold numbers of people with talk of perpetual inflation of any sort.

Definitely not wise to rock the boat.

Perpetual inflation - a death sentence.

I live in Cyprus btw. Roll Eyes

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1635. (Read 4670972 times)