[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1636.

HardwarePal

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Activity: 565

Merit: 500

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 16, 2014, 01:42:38 AM

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Nekomata, Tx fees are the kiss of death. Please do them. Kiss

(so much for your blah, blah)

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2014, 01:23:40 AM

I am starting to realize that it is probably wise not to rock the boat in this respect. It's probably not that big of a deal anyway and we could scare off untold numbers of people with talk of perpetual inflation of any sort.

Yes please don't differentiate yourself from Bitcoin. And who are you targeting anyway with your mining client, the nimcompoops here or the masses?

Explain why TX's are worse than a fixed 1% for example or fixed block reward.

Imo :

1. TX's are bad as they will be low reward (unless the coin is high priced) + might lead to centralization , but if the coin goes mainstream will be alot more worthwhile when coins are moving around.

2. % Inflation is only favorably if its the same rate as lost coins ( to small a sample size in cryptos to predict what the real rate is)

3. Fixed Block reward is a somewhat hard one to nail as theres no correct formula you can derive even if your the best mathematician in the world. (only close estimates)

If you look at Bitcoin as an example people dont even ROI on their hardware but still mine instead of just buying coins.

I prefer TX's to be honest as its the best investment wise (no inflation that would cause older coins to depreciate)

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 16, 2014, 01:48:16 AM

If you just want cheer leading, I will leave. (and I think that is best. Bye)

Oh goody. My favorite part is when you leave over and over again. Wink

I really do like you SM III. You know you and I may be related. Are any of your ancestors from the Appalachians?

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: ?? on ??

...Sr. Member with fancy talks pushing it to the cliff sideways

I am not pushing it any direction. It speaks for itself. I am speaking my understanding of the facts. I am trying to influence the design to do what I analyze to be best. And everyone here is free to present counter-logic.

If you just want cheer leading, I will leave. (and I think that is best. Bye)

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: ?? on ??

Thats because you also promote NXT, a know scam, you don't know better. Dogecoin devs backstabbed the community when they decided not fix a bug in the code that would make doge be minted forever at a fixed rate (10k). Doge will never overtake anything anymore, it was put down, by their own developers that became blind with their 15min of fame, those who are not bound by commitment with lines of code on 3rd-party hands will dump everything and wait for the next sane project to rise and invest again.

It's all your personal opinion. I don't consider that a bug, and you are free to consider anything a scam.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Nekomata, Tx fees are the kiss of death. Please do them. Kiss

(so much for your blah, blah)

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2014, 01:23:40 AM

I am starting to realize that it is probably wise not to rock the boat in this respect. It's probably not that big of a deal anyway and we could scare off untold numbers of people with talk of perpetual inflation of any sort.

Yes please don't differentiate yourself from Bitcoin. And who are you targeting anyway with your mining client, the nimcompoops here or the masses?

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: Anon136 on July 16, 2014, 01:02:59 AM

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 16, 2014, 12:41:00 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 15, 2014, 11:59:49 PM

Thanks. You are annoying and pretentious but you aren't dumb. I'll have to take some time to digest this.

When I am trying to win over the affection a lot of people, it won't be with words. I have a couple of 1 million user software accomplishments in my resume already.

Comments like these are exactly the reason why you annoy me so much. Why can't you just rely on your arguments instead of appealing to authority. Who the he'll cares how many people used your software. Good arguments aren't made bad if no people used your software and bad arguments art made good if a billion people used your software. No one cares how wonderful you think you are.

My gosh you an expert at inciting noise! You are the one who personalized the issue and caused me to defend my person. If you will stay on the facts, I will too.

Primitive

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Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: devphp on July 16, 2014, 01:36:40 AM

Where, exactly? I still believe Dogecoin will overtake Litecoin on coinmarketcap.com and will be a currency of choice for micro and small transactions.

hope you're right

i'm a doge-millionaire.

PS - i need more Monero Sad

. i like this coin more every day.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: ?? on ??

doge got in the same trap, they were big, kind of like monero is now but more mainstream, then hubris got them and look where doge is now.

Where, exactly? I still believe Dogecoin will overtake Litecoin on coinmarketcap.com and will be a currency of choice for micro and small transactions.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: superresistant on July 16, 2014, 01:15:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

I am starting to realize that it is probably wise not to rock the boat in this respect. It's probably not that big of a deal anyway and we could scare off untold numbers of people with talk of perpetual inflation of any sort.

superresistant

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1131

Quote from: ?? on ??

-_-
blah blah blah, monero should not be overly inflationary, it must go like bitcoin, after mining 'stops', only transactions fees are rewarded to the miners, anything more will kill a currency, bitcoin model is well approved.

Nothing is approved. We have no idea what will happen to Bitcoin in a near future.

Quote from: mafostedu on July 16, 2014, 01:14:41 AM

Any chance of getting this coin listed on cryptsy ? I can't find XMR under their voting list, QCN is listed there though !

lol cryptsy added QCN instead of XMR ? No wonder why this exchange is dead.

mafostedu

full member

Activity: 171

Merit: 100

Any chance of getting this coin listed on cryptsy ? I can't find XMR under their voting list, QCN is listed there though !

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 16, 2014, 12:41:00 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 15, 2014, 11:59:49 PM

Thanks. You are annoying and pretentious but you aren't dumb. I'll have to take some time to digest this.

When I am trying to win over the affection a lot of people, it won't be with words. I have a couple of 1 million user software accomplishments in my resume already.

Comments like these are exactly the reason why you annoy me so much. Why can't you just rely on your arguments instead of appealing to authority. Who the he'll cares how many people used your software. Good arguments aren't made bad if no people used your software and bad arguments art made good if a billion people used your software. No one cares how wonderful you think you are.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: Anon136 on July 15, 2014, 11:59:49 PM

Thanks. You are annoying and pretentious but you aren't dumb. I'll have to take some time to digest this.

When I am trying to win over the affection a lot of people, it won't be with words. I have a couple of 1 million user software accomplishments in my resume already.

AnonyMint

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 521

Quote from: cAPSLOCK on July 15, 2014, 11:07:04 PM

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 15, 2014, 09:54:01 PM

He was arguing against a constant % rate of perpetual mining rewards (a.k.a. debasement). He conflated this with the exponential growth of the value and adoption of the coin.

This is not at all what I read. I understood him to mean he favored a fixed constant block reward (ie 1 coin) as opposed to the exponential growth from a percent inflation (ie 1% total coins per x time).

The "1 coin per" scenario keeps rewards flowing while effectively reducing the value of the reward via the greater total coins while the percent ends up ramping up the coin supply on an exponential curve.

Was it not clear?

I see now that he was referring to an exponential growth of the money supply, and not an exponential growth of the rewards relative to the money supply.

I see no divergence problem with an exponential growth of the money supply if you are distributing it to yourselves (i.e. the broad usership). The money supply has been growing exponentially since the beginning of human history.

For one thing exponentially growing money supply is necessary to be consistent with the issuance of debt, because otherwise there is no means of paying the aggregately accumulated exponential growth in money needed due to interest compounding.

If we want to consider divergent outcomes and resilient strategies, note that any strategy might have a divergent outcome, e.g. even a feedback loop might carry with it some game theory for manipulation.

Anon136

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Quote from: AnonyMint on July 15, 2014, 10:31:45 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on July 15, 2014, 03:07:35 PM

Ok so im reading the mini blockchain whitepaper. It appears to be a marginal improvement in some ways but it doesnt address the fundemental difficulty in scaling blockchains. The scalability problem doesn’t have anything to do with the size of the blockchain. It comes from the fact that each actor's transactions must be verified by all other network participants. Its the same math as network effects, except its a negative network effect.

Suppose actors make 1 transaction per minute.

1 actors = 0 verifications because he doesnt need to verify his own transactions.
2 actors = 2 transactions per minute. 2 * 2 actors = 4 transactions verifications. They dont need to verify their own so 4 - 2 = 2.
3 actors = 3 transactions per minute. 3 * 3 = 9 verifications. they dont need to verify their own so 9 - 3 = 6.
4 actors = (4*4)-4=12
5 actors = (5*5)-5=20
ect...

0,2,6,12,20,30,42,56,72

This very quickly gets out of hand when you consider that there is a cost associated with verifying a transaction. even if that cost is infinitesimal.

Actors (users) are not verifying nodes, so you math is slightly incorrect in that respect.

However, your point remains valid that transactions scale O(NxN) by Metcalf or Reed's law. And verifying nodes probably don't scale by N actors.

However, Metcalf's law doesn't tell you the frequencies at which actors do transactions. Visa is currently at about 6000 transactions per second, so this can be verified with a single Intel CPU, so no problem for verifying nodes.

Scaling up to 6 billion people and micro transactions (more frequent transactions) might present a scaling problem. I've looked at Lamport signatures schemes that can verify 100,000+ transactions per second on a single i7 cpu. Since verifying nodes tend to be pools with considerably more resources (amortized over a large amount of hashrate), then a 10 - 100 cpu farm (or a Tilera 64 core cpu) is not unfathomable without destroying decentralization of pools.

Long-term the solution is simple. An ASIC for verification will scale sufficiently to 6 billion and micro transactions.

In short, no problem! Mini-block chain addresses the problem of block chain size and its impact on decentralization of mining. Cryptonite does not include anonymity however.

Thanks. You are annoying and pretentious but you aren't dumb. I'll have to take some time to digest this.

jwinterm

legendary

Activity: 3136

Merit: 1116

Quote from: DumDumz on July 15, 2014, 11:50:41 PM

where is dev right now?
say something!
Do some acture work.

lol DumDumz, you so CrayCrayz

DumDumz

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

★☆★Bitin.io★☆★

where is dev right now?
say something!
Do some acture work.

David Latapie

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 503

Monero Core Team

Quote from: rpietila on July 11, 2014, 03:28:56 PM

I have also decided to donate a bottle of wine from my cellars to all core developers who show up in my castle.

Once I'll get rich with Monero, I'll definitely visit Malla (plus, it would a great place for a Murder mystery game or a tabletop RPG.

..I'll remember Malla in 2019.
The Supernode, Baltic Sea
And an old Pietila wine...
Estonian Walkways

Quote from: rpietila on July 14, 2014, 04:35:08 AM

I've been using it to mean == "goes up to a value 10 times higher the original value" == +900%.

Maybe I accidentally invented it and it's not in general use Tongue

Decuples is the term

Quote from: RentaMouse on July 15, 2014, 03:26:56 PM

And is it me or does the quality of discussion in this thread seem to improve between about 10:00 and 17:00 UTC each day? I've only bothered to check this "statistic" for the last few days' worth of posts but so far it holds up, at least on weekdays.

Interesting, especially if it holds true with time.

Quote from: Primitive on July 13, 2014, 12:22:24 PM

im interested in alts - can't put my finger on why exactly.

Because you find Darwinian evolution at work fascinating? Innovations in altcoins

Quote from: ?? on ??

This really was a great interview with David. Shocked

Glad you liked it

cAPSLOCK

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 5146

Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!

Quote from: AnonyMint on July 15, 2014, 09:54:01 PM

He was arguing against a constant % rate of perpetual mining rewards (a.k.a. debasement). He conflated this with the exponential growth of the value and adoption of the coin.

This is not at all what I read. I understood him to mean he favored a fixed constant block reward (ie 1 coin) as opposed to the exponential growth from a percent inflation (ie 1% total coins per x time).

The "1 coin per" scenario keeps rewards flowing while effectively reducing the value of the reward via the greater total coins while the percent ends up ramping up the coin supply on an exponential curve.

Was it not clear?

onemorebtc

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Activity: 266

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Quote from: AnonyMint on July 15, 2014, 10:58:54 PM

Quote from: monero-extended on July 15, 2014, 10:48:00 PM

A new thread has been created for any discussion relating to development and engineering for Monero. This is not a general support thread, there is already one for that.

Please check it out here!

-updated by kbm

I will not post there.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I will not participate in a self-moderated thread because I've already seen a desire for censorship which impact engineering considerations. My posts will continue in the unmoderated thread.

I edited the post to explain that technical considerations were impacted by the topic you wanted to censor.

+1
censorship is only for people who are afraid.

edit: if you just want good discussions you can use "local thread rules" which are enforced by mods

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1636. (Read 4670972 times)