[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 699.

digicoin

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1000

I started my bitmonerod today after several days were off and got this

Quote

2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.663571 Core rpc server initialized OK on port: 18081
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.663571 Initializing core...
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.667572 Loading blockchain from folder F:\monero\data\lmdb ...
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.670572 option: fastest
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.671572 option: async
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.673572 option: 1000
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.821587 Attempt to get timestamp from height 914280 failed -- timestamp not in db
2016-Jan-19 13:48:33.823587 ERROR C:/msys64/DISTRIBUTION-BUILD/src/daemon/daemon.cpp:146 Uncaught exception! Attempt to get timestamp from height 914280 failed -- timestamp not in db

The daemon quitted right after that.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: digicoin on January 19, 2016, 02:06:05 AM

From bitmonerod screen

Quote

IP 190.154.236.3 blocked
IP 194.125.224.2 blocked

Why were those IPs blocked?

Misbehaving or unreachable nodes. Your node will stop trying to connect to them or stop accepting connections from them for 24 hours, then will allow retrying (after which they might get banned again if the problem persists)

digicoin

legendary

Activity: 1106

Merit: 1000

From bitmonerod screen

Quote

IP 190.154.236.3 blocked
IP 194.125.224.2 blocked

Why were those IPs blocked?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Drhiggins on January 18, 2016, 07:34:03 PM

The daemon gave me a warning it was going to shut down.

Not familiar with that. If it happens again please save the information and report it.

Quote

Also with the new Helix release is it now taking two minutes per block or is that still set at 1 block per minute?

That will change after the hard fork expected in late March.

Drhiggins

sr. member

Activity: 306

Merit: 251

So with all the traffic earlier today my daemon was showing 136 incoming connections. The daemon gave me a warning it was going to shut down. I exited out myself and restarted. Is that normal. I should have taken a screen shoot but my was not thinking at that moment.

Also with the new Helix release is it now taking two minutes per block or is that still set at 1 block per minute?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:24:05 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 18, 2016, 07:13:08 PM

.....
They would still be able to. I think you misunderstood how CT in Bitcoin works. It only hides amounts, nothing else.

I just picked up this transaction from the blockchain -> https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/4f242d2f85b5f13f68ea8bf9eba19626be161b479c5065ddc2b2f202b012d141

Now imagine CT implemented, it merely won't show 0.011234 BTC, 3.258909 BTC and the total 3.270143. All other information will still be there.

I did look at it a while back, but you are right that I haven't followed it closely enough to understand it yet.

But, I think my general point still stands.

If confidential transactions are good enough and give some level of privacy, then it makes the arguments for a complete anon coin less attractive, except for edge cases.

Agree about "less" attractive. Disagree that all that is remaining is "edge cases".

Quote

Edge cases when seen on a global basis might be worth quite a bit

Okay I don't necessarily disagree if stated that way.

A broader comment:

There is a certain "academic approach" in Bitcoin from people like Adam Back (an actual academic in a sense) and Greg Maxwell that you have to appreciate. It involves developing small advancements (or small wins if you prefer that phrase) that are extremely well supported with research and mathematics, and is often focused on advancing knowledge in ways that won't even ever be deployed on a large scale.

That is very different from a more commercial approach that often tries to deliver a "solution" to "customers", but often delivers stuff that isn't very well supported or sound, and almost inevitably becomes obsolete and ultimately outcompeted or leapfrogged by some other commercial product.

Monero, by the way, has a somewhat intermediate approach (that is my observation and opinion, not a statement of policy).

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 18, 2016, 07:13:08 PM

.....
They would still be able to. I think you misunderstood how CT in Bitcoin works. It only hides amounts, nothing else.

I just picked up this transaction from the blockchain -> https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/4f242d2f85b5f13f68ea8bf9eba19626be161b479c5065ddc2b2f202b012d141

Now imagine CT implemented, it merely won't show 0.011234 BTC, 3.258909 BTC and the total 3.270143. All other information will still be there.

I did look at it a while back, but you are right that I haven't followed it closely enough to understand it yet.

But, I think my general point still stands.

If confidential transactions are good enough and give some level of privacy, then it makes the arguments for a complete anon coin less attractive, except for edge cases.

Actually, that might be a good thing for XMR. Edge cases when seen on a global basis might be worth quite a bit. I think I just talked myself out of a discussion on the threats to XMR - I doubt anyone thinks XMR would ever handle visa levels of transactions, so a successful Bitcoin with some hardened trade going to XMR is likely to be a net gain for the project.

edit

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:15:53 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 18, 2016, 07:12:15 PM

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:08:35 PM

Although that makes complete privacy just an edge case? That might sound oxymoronish, as long as general users can't access transaction details, they will probably believe bitcoin is private.

For example people know their Internet habbits are being logged, but generally they don't care, whereas those that do care will use a vpn, Tor, etc.

That's different. Logging at the network level requires physical access or cooperation from ISPs. Analyzing the blockchain is something anyone can do, and there are probably a dozen startup companies doing it on Bitcoin now (and probably some non-startups also doing it internally). Some of those are available to anyone on public web sites (ordinary chain explorers being the crudest example of this).

Do you think they will stop just because CT goes live and (some?) transaction amounts are hidden? I really doubt it. Their systems will become somewhat less effective, but will still work (especially if the proportion of CT transactions is low), and will still be used.

That's a fair point.

Then, what is the point of confidential transactions?

It helps add some privacy without making fundamental changes in how Bitcoin operates. As fluffypony mentioned, Greg Maxwell's own words on the topic make clear that it isn't intended as a complete solution, just an improvement.

It definitely appeals to larger users of Bitcoin who may not want their large transactions to stick out. In its original purpose (Blockstream's Liquid side chain), it allows transfers between exchanges without anyone being able to determine the amount and use that for a trading advantage.

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on January 18, 2016, 07:12:15 PM

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:08:35 PM

Although that makes complete privacy just an edge case? That might sound oxymoronish, as long as general users can't access transaction details, they will probably believe bitcoin is private.

For example people know their Internet habbits are being logged, but generally they don't care, whereas those that do care will use a vpn, Tor, etc.

That's different. Logging at the network level requires physical access or cooperation from ISPs. Analyzing the blockchain is something anyone can do, and there are probably a dozen startup companies doing it on Bitcoin now (and probably some non-startups also doing it internally). Some of those are available to anyone on public web sites (ordinary chain explorers being the crudest example of this).

Do you think they will stop just because CT goes live and (some?) transaction amounts are hidden? I really doubt it. Their systems will become somewhat less effective, but will still work (especially if the proportion of CT transactions is low), and will still be used.

That's a fair point.

Then, what is the point of confidential transactions?

I can't believe that Adam or Greg are going to release something that is not fit for purpose, by their own very high ideological and we'll intended standards.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:08:35 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 18, 2016, 07:00:55 PM

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html

Genuinely interested to hear views about this and if it will impact xmr the most, which I think is likely given the ongoing development of xmr and the substantial first mover advantage bitcoin has over every project.

You might want to read this -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/41ktxm/if_bitcoin_adds_confidential_transactions_like/

For the lazy ones:

Question:

Quote

If Bitcoin adds confidential transactions like Adam Back has been talking about, what value will Monero really have to offer above and beyond Bitcoin?

Fluffypony's answer:

Quote

To paraphrase Greg Maxwell, the creator of Confidential Transactions, CT does nothing to hide the "transaction graph", or "transaction metadata". Unfortunately, cute terminology aside, the transaction metadata is the very thing that reveals your transactions. How much you donated to Terribly Racist Slighly-Left-Wing Party Inc. is irrelevant, the fact that your donation can be traced back to you by your boss, your government, your friends, your coworkers, is a Pretty Big Deal^tm.

About the best Bitcoin could do is implement Confidential Transactions for every transaction, and then implement some sort of exceptionally well designed CoinJoin system (one where participants cannot be revealed even through Sybil attacks) on a protocol layer, enforced for every transaction. And even then, in spite of the terrible blockchain bloat that would occur, they'd still not have solved the issue of transactions being linked to IP addresses...

My additional answer:

Quote

First of all, bear in mind that the Confidential Transactions that were proposed for Bitcoin only hide amounts. Thus, sender/receiver addresses are still visible and therefore it doesn't solve linkability nor traceability problems.

Additionally, it doesn't hide metadata. This problem will be mitigated/solved in the future by Monero with I2P integration -> http://podbay.fm/show/1032156854/e/1451151298?autostart=1 & https://github.com/monero-project/kovri

~~u/fluffyponyza posted a more detailed reply about this a while ago:~~ (which I unfortunately have to post later, I posted it on a site which is down currently and have no other way of finding it).

EDIT: If you want more info regarding untraceability, unlinkability, how Monero works in general and comparing Monero vs Bitcoin, watch this vid -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks. The comparison starts at 13:00.

Interesting. Thanks.

Although that makes complete privacy just an edge case? That might sound oxymoronish, as long as general users can't access transaction details, they will probably believe bitcoin is private.

For example people know their Internet habbits are being logged, but generally they don't care, whereas those that do care will use a vpn, Tor, etc.

They would still be able to. I think you misunderstood how CT in Bitcoin works. It only hides amounts, nothing else.

I just picked up this transaction from the blockchain -> https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/4f242d2f85b5f13f68ea8bf9eba19626be161b479c5065ddc2b2f202b012d141

Now imagine CT implemented, it merely won't show 0.011234 BTC, 3.258909 BTC and the total 3.270143. All other information will still be there.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:08:35 PM

Although that makes complete privacy just an edge case? That might sound oxymoronish, as long as general users can't access transaction details, they will probably believe bitcoin is private.

For example people know their Internet habbits are being logged, but generally they don't care, whereas those that do care will use a vpn, Tor, etc.

That's different. Logging at the network level requires physical access or cooperation from ISPs (or the sites you access). More people would very likely care if their Internet access logs were published on a public blockchain.

Analyzing the blockchain is something anyone can do, and there are probably a dozen startup companies doing it on Bitcoin now (and probably some non-startups also doing it internally). Some of those are available to anyone on public web sites (ordinary chain explorers being the crudest example of this).

Do you think they will stop just because CT goes live and (some?) transaction amounts are hidden? I really doubt it. Their systems will become somewhat less effective, but will still work (especially if the proportion of CT transactions is low), and will still be used.

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 18, 2016, 07:00:55 PM

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html

Genuinely interested to hear views about this and if it will impact xmr the most, which I think is likely given the ongoing development of xmr and the substantial first mover advantage bitcoin has over every project.

You might want to read this -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/41ktxm/if_bitcoin_adds_confidential_transactions_like/

For the lazy ones:

Question:

Quote

If Bitcoin adds confidential transactions like Adam Back has been talking about, what value will Monero really have to offer above and beyond Bitcoin?

Fluffypony's answer:

Quote

To paraphrase Greg Maxwell, the creator of Confidential Transactions, CT does nothing to hide the "transaction graph", or "transaction metadata". Unfortunately, cute terminology aside, the transaction metadata is the very thing that reveals your transactions. How much you donated to Terribly Racist Slighly-Left-Wing Party Inc. is irrelevant, the fact that your donation can be traced back to you by your boss, your government, your friends, your coworkers, is a Pretty Big Deal^tm.

About the best Bitcoin could do is implement Confidential Transactions for every transaction, and then implement some sort of exceptionally well designed CoinJoin system (one where participants cannot be revealed even through Sybil attacks) on a protocol layer, enforced for every transaction. And even then, in spite of the terrible blockchain bloat that would occur, they'd still not have solved the issue of transactions being linked to IP addresses...

My additional answer:

Quote

First of all, bear in mind that the Confidential Transactions that were proposed for Bitcoin only hide amounts. Thus, sender/receiver addresses are still visible and therefore it doesn't solve linkability nor traceability problems.

Additionally, it doesn't hide metadata. This problem will be mitigated/solved in the future by Monero with I2P integration -> http://podbay.fm/show/1032156854/e/1451151298?autostart=1 & https://github.com/monero-project/kovri

~~u/fluffyponyza posted a more detailed reply about this a while ago:~~ (which I unfortunately have to post later, I posted it on a site which is down currently and have no other way of finding it).

EDIT: If you want more info regarding untraceability, unlinkability, how Monero works in general and comparing Monero vs Bitcoin, watch this vid -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks. The comparison starts at 13:00.

Interesting. Thanks.

Although that makes complete privacy just an edge case? That might sound oxymoronish, as long as general users can't access transaction details, they will probably believe bitcoin is private.

For example people know their Internet habbits are being logged, but generally they don't care, whereas those that do care will use a vpn, Tor, etc.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 07:01:54 PM

Quote from: smooth on January 18, 2016, 06:50:54 PM

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

One of the credible devs disputed whether it can really be done with a soft fork, though I'm skeptical that it couldn't. I don't remember whether it was on that list or somewhere else.

Anyway, I'll believe it when I see it. Bitcoin is mired in debate over every little thing.

1. I think the issue is too big to be ignored and there is generally cross party support for privacy.

2. The Blockstream devs behind CT are more than competent enough to make it happen, their biggest hurdle was the potential need for a hard fork event.

3. Enabling privacy as an adjunct make things easier.

The relatively small political hurdles, the reduced technical hurdles and the substantial potential benefits would suggest this could happen this year or next.

I will wager as much as you want against it happening this year. Extra bonus for you: You can use that wager as a hedge and buy Monero with reduced risk.

Next year is somewhat possible, still a long shot imo.

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: smooth on January 18, 2016, 06:50:54 PM

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

One of the credible devs disputed whether it can really be done with a soft fork, though I'm skeptical that it couldn't. I don't remember whether it was on that list or somewhere else.

Anyway, I'll believe it when I see it. Bitcoin is mired in debate over every little thing.

1. I think the issue is too big to be ignored and there is generally cross party support for privacy.

2. The Blockstream devs behind CT are more than competent enough to make it happen, their biggest hurdle was the potential need for a hard fork event.

3. Enabling privacy as an adjunct make things easier.

The relatively small political hurdles, the reduced technical hurdles and the substantial potential benefits would suggest this could happen this year or next.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html

Genuinely interested to hear views about this and if it will impact xmr the most, which I think is likely given the ongoing development of xmr and the substantial first mover advantage bitcoin has over every project.

You might want to read this -> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/41ktxm/if_bitcoin_adds_confidential_transactions_like/

For the lazy ones:

Question:

Quote

If Bitcoin adds confidential transactions like Adam Back has been talking about, what value will Monero really have to offer above and beyond Bitcoin?

Fluffypony's answer:

Quote

To paraphrase Greg Maxwell, the creator of Confidential Transactions, CT does nothing to hide the "transaction graph", or "transaction metadata". Unfortunately, cute terminology aside, the transaction metadata is the very thing that reveals your transactions. How much you donated to Terribly Racist Slighly-Left-Wing Party Inc. is irrelevant, the fact that your donation can be traced back to you by your boss, your government, your friends, your coworkers, is a Pretty Big Deal^tm.

About the best Bitcoin could do is implement Confidential Transactions for every transaction, and then implement some sort of exceptionally well designed CoinJoin system (one where participants cannot be revealed even through Sybil attacks) on a protocol layer, enforced for every transaction. And even then, in spite of the terrible blockchain bloat that would occur, they'd still not have solved the issue of transactions being linked to IP addresses...

My additional answer:

Quote

First of all, bear in mind that the Confidential Transactions that were proposed for Bitcoin only hide amounts. Thus, sender/receiver addresses are still visible and therefore it doesn't solve linkability nor traceability problems.

Additionally, it doesn't hide metadata. This problem will be mitigated/solved in the future by Monero with I2P integration -> http://podbay.fm/show/1032156854/e/1451151298?autostart=1 & https://github.com/monero-project/kovri

~~u/fluffyponyza posted a more detailed reply about this a while ago:~~ (which I unfortunately have to post later, I posted it on a site which is down currently and have no other way of finding it).

EDIT: If you want more info regarding untraceability, unlinkability, how Monero works in general and comparing Monero vs Bitcoin, watch this vid -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVm1dMn5Ks. The comparison starts at 13:00.

wpalczynski

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html

Genuinely interested to hear views about this and if it will impact xmr the most, which I think is likely given the ongoing development of xmr and the substantial first mover advantage bitcoin has over every project.

Introducing any anonymity into Bitcoin would be viewed as a breach of the social contract by the majority of the people responsible for the more than Billion dollars in VC money invested up to now. In addition the soft touch regulation we have seen applied in most parts of the world to this new financial paradigm would surely change drastically.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: coins101 on January 18, 2016, 06:46:22 PM

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

One of the credible devs disputed whether it can really be done with a soft fork, though I'm skeptical that it couldn't. I don't remember whether it was on that list or somewhere else.

Anyway, I'll believe it when I see it. Bitcoin is mired in debate over every little thing.

EDIT: CT also does not keep metadata private. That is very important.

Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/41ktxm/if_bitcoin_adds_confidential_transactions_like/cz36xy8

How much you donated to Terribly Racist Slighly-Left-Wing Party Inc. is irrelevant, the fact that your donation can be traced back to you by your boss, your government, your friends, your coworkers, is a Pretty Big Deal^tm --fluffypony

coins101

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Confidential transactions in bitcoin, as a soft fork:

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-January/012194.html

Genuinely interested to hear views about this and if it will impact xmr the most, which I think is likely given the ongoing development of xmr and the substantial first mover advantage bitcoin has over every project.

bitebits

legendary

Activity: 2242

Merit: 3523

Flippin' burgers since 1163.

Just posting to follow this thread, great to see that there is so much discussion going on (I was actually only aware of the Monero Speculation thread, did not still expect activity in the Announcements section).

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: pönde on January 18, 2016, 03:25:34 PM

Quote from: pönde on January 17, 2016, 04:47:52 PM

Quote from: nioc on January 17, 2016, 04:43:15 PM

Quote from: pönde on January 17, 2016, 04:30:51 PM

Why it is not possible to withdraw xmr from bittrex.com? XMR can be exchanged to BTC and BTC can be withdrawn but XMR can not be directly withdrawn. Why?

Sorry if this is not right thread for this question.

Did you ask bittrex? I have no idea how quick their support is.

It was working yesterday. I have seen this happen before on bittrex with Monero as well as other coins. It usually lasts less than a day.

Ok. Thanks.

I have not yet asked of bittrex what is the problem.

I also can remember these issues with bittrex. This is why I hold most of my coins in my own wallet. I think I will now take every coin out off bittrex.

Ok. Today XMR withdrawals were possible.

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on January 18, 2016, 09:49:09 AM

Quote from: pönde on January 18, 2016, 08:44:52 AM

Hey Coinwarz says there will be 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 Moneros to be issued.
http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency/coins/monero

Could someone please inform them about the real number which is about 18 million.

It's ~2^64 actually, but the problem with Coinwarz is that they used a comma instead of a dot after 18,446,744.

Well that is a lot of coins. I do know that after all the 18 million coins are mined, there is about 1% annual emission to secure the profitable mining after that. But ~2^64 coins is new for me.

Anyway, could someone do a comparison of XMR/DASH and post it here? There is an other thread on bitcointalk of this issue, but it does not look very active.

This compares the anonymity of both -> http://blog.makemoneywhileyouwork.com/2016/01/11/using-alt-coins-to-mix-bitcoins/

I don't think there is a detailed comparison of other features/fundamentals currently.

Thanks smooth for correcting me btw.

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 699. (Read 4670673 times)