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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1994. (Read 3314325 times)

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
March 25, 2015, 04:39:16 PM
^
Pretty much what equipoise said. We looked at AT and saw a lot more challenges integrating it with Monero compared to btc-style coins.

That doesn't mean we aren't interested in more powerful transaction facilities, but its bit much to take on right now. Of course, it is an open source project and if others want to do the work we'll consider including it.


Unfortunate but thats the nature of the beast i suppose. It would be hard to do advanced scripting on an opaque blockchain.

Can somebody please elaborate?
Does a view key play a necessary role in implementing AT with Monero? Or how could it work?
Could Zerocash be used with AT?

It wouldn't really help because in order for scripting to work you need everyone in the network to be able to analyze your scripts to see if they resolve true. We would need a different type of transaction. A fully transparent transaction type. This would be difficult to do without having negative externalities for the privacy of other users.

Someone smarter than me feel free to correct me but this is my understanding.
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
March 25, 2015, 04:32:36 PM
^
Pretty much what equipoise said. We looked at AT and saw a lot more challenges integrating it with Monero compared to btc-style coins.

That doesn't mean we aren't interested in more powerful transaction facilities, but its bit much to take on right now. Of course, it is an open source project and if others want to do the work we'll consider including it.


Unfortunate but thats the nature of the beast i suppose. It would be hard to do advanced scripting on an opaque blockchain.

Can somebody please elaborate?
Does a view key play a necessary role in implementing AT with Monero? Or how could it work?
Could Zerocash be used with AT?
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
March 25, 2015, 04:32:26 PM
xmr is rocketing just now..... where is the roof ?

i just loose 1btc buy order at 0.001 , just for bter hack days................ HELL

Yeah it's nuts.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1000
March 25, 2015, 04:28:19 PM
xmr is rocketing just now..... where is the roof ?

i just loose 1btc buy order at 0.001 , just for bter hack days................ HELL
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
March 25, 2015, 04:22:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this behavior is the antithesis of what the Monero Project is working against.
Then, on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it must be very closely aligned with what the project is about, eh?



I understand that by breaching one's privacy as such is kind of a way to show the value of privacy through Monero, but there's still, in my opinion, something wrong about not respecting people's privacy in the first place. We should not be the ones doing it to coerce, for lack of a better word, people to consider Monero.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
March 25, 2015, 04:09:29 PM
...failure to achieve critical mass ... leading to a downward spiral of liquidity and capitalization.

We've tested the lower bound of demand, shaken out the weak hands among the founding holders, and now emission decline is reducing supply.  Failure to achieve critical mass is a reason to fail to go exponential.  That's very different from a reason for demand to decline below December levels.  And that is strictly required for a new low.

Quote
There also could be some partial instant collapses, such as the release of a coin based on zerocash or a Bitcoin ring signature sidechain.
Each of these events seems likely to bring more visibility to XMR, and hence more demand.  Demand is really quite low because of a lack of uses.  Since the cryptocoins-dice disaster, xmr.to and CryptoKingdom constitute the bulk of the non-speculative demand.  Even bad news is good news for XMR at this point.

> 1. Bitcoin-style cryptocurrency not seen as useful (enough) by the market. Leads to same sort of downward liquidity spiral as above, but for the entire cryptocoin universe (except maybe other platform concepts such as Ripple, fiatcoin, etc.).

Negligible probability event.

> 2. Private cryptocurrency is not seen as useful by the market. Ditto.

Negligible probability event.

> 3. Bitcoin is perceived private enough or becomes more private (incl. sidechain)

Incredibly low probability event.

> 4. Zerocoin is perceived as trusted enough (both in terms of setup and cryptographic maturity)

Possible. Not sufficient.  It must also be usable.  Adequate trust is potentially achievable, but usability is a very low probability event.

> 5. Dark/dash is perceived as private enough (and/or is improved). Requires Dark/dash to also not collapse into a financial smoldering wreckage, or other non-privacy-related failure.

Now you're at the level of plausible conceivabililty, which is a high-water mark.

> 6. An unknown black swan technology replaces Bitcoin, and is perceived as private enough or has a private version.

That would be XMR, actually.  Very nice outcome.  

> 7. An unknown black swan technology replaces Monero's ring sigs, etc., and is perceived as private enough or has a private version. Monroe does not adopt/adapt, or fails to do so quickly enough.

Of your enumerated risks, this seems the most likely, and would require a failure of the community to adapt technically, forever.  The displacing competitor would have some more usable variation of zerocoin's privacy properties, in all likelihood.

In aggregate I don't think these suffice to make failure to thrive more likely than thriving.  Most of them are of pretty negligible likelihood, or depend on some dramatic technical innovation, which is certain to occur, but only after an unknowable delay, which is time for XMR to consolidate its niche.

Quote
But overall, I'm fairly convinced that failure to "take off" at some point will lead to the liquidity implosion into irrelevance (maybe not literally zero for very long time, but eventually that).

I agree on that point, as a limit in the infinite bound.  But I have seen quite a lot of instances of a specific pattern which I think is dominating XMR valuation dynamics presently, and I consider it more likely than not that it will continue in this pattern:

When a company IPOs, there is a tendency for initial volatility to create a starting spike, after which a long, slow decline occurs, ending in a very wide bottom.  You can imagine the investor dynamics, as hot speculation becomes a quarterly grind.  When the business model and process matures to the point where organic growth is manifest, price rises, slowly at first, then in a sequence of manic rushes, as various tiers of investors pile in.  Such issues are often called 'virgins', perhaps because they have yet to experience their first ecstasies.

This is very much where I see XMR today.

What it needs to flourish is basically just a lot of sweat, to consolidate value-enhancing business processes and models.  In my view the overwhelming bulk of the early risk lies in the possibility that this sweat will not get invested in a timely manner.  The risk profile changes after dramatic success and value-expansion has been achieved.


legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
March 25, 2015, 04:07:53 PM
^
Pretty much what equipoise said. We looked at AT and saw a lot more challenges integrating it with Monero compared to btc-style coins.

That doesn't mean we aren't interested in more powerful transaction facilities, but its bit much to take on right now. Of course, it is an open source project and if others want to do the work we'll consider including it.


Unfortunate but thats the nature of the beast i suppose. It would be hard to do advanced scripting on an opaque blockchain.
hero member
Activity: 794
Merit: 1000
Monero (XMR) - secure, private, untraceable
March 25, 2015, 03:58:51 PM
^
Pretty much what equipoise said. We looked at AT and saw a lot more challenges integrating it with Monero compared to btc-style coins.

That doesn't mean we aren't interested in more powerful transaction facilities, but its bit much to take on right now. Of course, it is an open source project and if others want to do the work we'll consider including it.

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
March 25, 2015, 03:54:59 PM
Ethereum launch is getting closer and closer. If they gain enough liquidity and allow xmr/btc decentralized exchange then I can imagine lot of dirty bitcoins are going to seek a new home in a safe exchange for always untainted new anonymous crypto like Monero.

Ethereum if successful could really increase the global liquidity in the whole crypto once people are allowed to trade without the counter party and security risk of centralized exchanges.

It would mean increasing the velocity of money which leads to inflation. Altcoins should rise.

Correct thinking? I guess Monero and Ethereum is still a bit a distant future Cheesy


but this could be a closer future (mercury exchange)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mercury-fully-trustless-cryptocurrency-exchange-looking-for-testers-946174

Does monero allow for the sort of scripting necessary to do atomic transactions?
hero member
Activity: 500
Merit: 500
March 25, 2015, 03:51:36 PM
great volume increase the last hours.
is a fraction coming from drk's profit?
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
March 25, 2015, 03:39:25 PM
Ethereum launch is getting closer and closer. If they gain enough liquidity and allow xmr/btc decentralized exchange then I can imagine lot of dirty bitcoins are going to seek a new home in a safe exchange for always untainted new anonymous crypto like Monero.

Ethereum if successful could really increase the global liquidity in the whole crypto once people are allowed to trade without the counter party and security risk of centralized exchanges.

It would mean increasing the velocity of money which leads to inflation. Altcoins should rise.

Correct thinking? I guess Monero and Ethereum is still a bit a distant future Cheesy


but this could be a closer future (mercury exchange)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mercury-fully-trustless-cryptocurrency-exchange-looking-for-testers-946174

In addition, Atrides is also working on an Openbazaar version for XMR.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
March 25, 2015, 03:31:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this behavior is the antithesis of what the Monero Project is working against.
Then, on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it must be very closely aligned with what the project is about, eh?

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
March 25, 2015, 03:28:51 PM
Ethereum launch is getting closer and closer. If they gain enough liquidity and allow xmr/btc decentralized exchange then I can imagine lot of dirty bitcoins are going to seek a new home in a safe exchange for always untainted new anonymous crypto like Monero.

Ethereum if successful could really increase the global liquidity in the whole crypto once people are allowed to trade without the counter party and security risk of centralized exchanges.

It would mean increasing the velocity of money which leads to inflation. Altcoins should rise.

Correct thinking? I guess Monero and Ethereum is still a bit a distant future Cheesy


but this could be a closer future (mercury exchange)

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mercury-fully-trustless-cryptocurrency-exchange-looking-for-testers-946174
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
March 25, 2015, 03:25:08 PM
Ethereum launch is getting closer and closer. If they gain enough liquidity and allow xmr/btc decentralized exchange then I can imagine lot of dirty bitcoins are going to seek a new home in a safe exchange for always untainted new anonymous crypto like Monero.

Ethereum if successful could really increase the global liquidity in the whole crypto once people are allowed to trade without the counter party and security risk of centralized exchanges.

It would mean increasing the velocity of money which leads to inflation. Altcoins should rise.

Correct thinking? I guess Monero and Ethereum is still a bit a distant future Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
March 25, 2015, 03:21:47 PM
~32k coins bought at .0031 in 2 orders
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
March 25, 2015, 01:29:37 PM
I feel very discusted as someone classifies investors to classes of 1. Wanted investors 2. Unwanted investors.

I welcome everybody to the family - including drk community members.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
March 25, 2015, 01:25:39 PM
Look again at your stated intention for finding investors:
"A good way to make money is to try to find local rich people's contact details and start contacting them (not explaining things in technical jargon but in the language of average Joe), then find the right people and sell them coins with markup which is your salary."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this behavior is the antithesis of what the Monero Project is working against. By doing this, one targets those he/she knows are rich, with no respect towards their privacy, primarily to solicit for their money simply because one knows they're rich and already deemed they could live without some amount of this money, without mind towards any other regard. This doesn't even attract the best kind of investor (read: educated) for Monero.

If these rich people did not agree to be solicited for investments, then leave them alone. If you, however, have built up a good reputation for others' wealth management, and people come to you asking for investment advice at their own accord, more power to you.


Looks like you tried to read something from my writing that I did not say. The buyers obviously has to be solicitated/interested in owning it. Obviously that is the job of a salesman to find the people who are interested in buying it. Selling to millionaires is not a similar process than selling crab in Jerusalem old city Arab bazars. Who by the way remembered me last time I passed by that I was there a few years earlier (impressive).
The job of a booker is to try to find the potentially interested individuals and the seller's job is to close as many sales as possible.

I dont know what is the original idea of Monero but I certainly hope it is not to be owned by only us.

In my country it is public information how much anyone is taxed and therefore you can easily find the richest by visiting in a tax office. Some countries you need probably to be more sophisticated (like trying to get the contact infos of local golf clubs etc).
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
March 25, 2015, 10:53:59 AM
I also emailed everyone I (personally) know about Monero in November when MyMonero launched. Offered them free monero if they signed up but nobody did it. Now I followed up again the other day, and this is the only response I got. (from a a smart professional person)

Code:
"I'm moving to the desert to do drugs and leaving all technology behind."

Monero is still a difficult pitch for the average person that doesn't care about privacy, doesn't use bitcoin yet, etc.

Investors are needed for Monero.
I am convinced in the world exists money enough to buy up the Monero and rise the marketcap significiantly. The problem is to find those people.
A good way to make money is to try to find local rich people's contact details and start contacting them (not explaining things in technical jargon but in the language of average Joe), then find the right people and sell them coins with markup which is your salary.
You might get nice hourly wage in this way by the way. Just tell them you are not accepting less than 30 000 usd investments per person.  Grin

This is kind of a morally depraved way of going out about this, just because it reeks of solicitation, an ugly situation to put someone in.


Please could you give some arguments on why is it immoral to sell xmr to millionaires with sums they will even bother to consider investing. You are ridiculing a guy who is worth 1 million usd if you offer him an investment for 1000. Also seller needs comissions and there is not much possible to earn if you are selling only smaller amounts.

Look again at your stated intention for finding investors:
"A good way to make money is to try to find local rich people's contact details and start contacting them (not explaining things in technical jargon but in the language of average Joe), then find the right people and sell them coins with markup which is your salary."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this behavior is the antithesis of what the Monero Project is working against. By doing this, one targets those he/she knows are rich, with no respect towards their privacy, primarily to solicit for their money simply because one knows they're rich and already deemed they could live without some amount of this money, without mind towards any other regard. This doesn't even attract the best kind of investor (read: educated) for Monero.

If these rich people did not agree to be solicited for investments, then leave them alone. If you, however, have built up a good reputation for others' wealth management, and people come to you asking for investment advice at their own accord, more power to you.
sr. member
Activity: 400
Merit: 263
March 25, 2015, 08:17:32 AM
I am under the impression that during the last few days XMR has been gently nudged to stay in a holding pattern, not being allowed to rise or fall very much. Maybe to wait out the DRK hype? Or the final touches to the new release?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
March 25, 2015, 08:09:21 AM
Someone is trying to manipulate Monero down.. it doest cost that much to buy the wall...  Roll Eyes
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