Topic: ★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS] - page 109. (Read 1009280 times)

Kiklo, regarding development and money for that, here is my offer. As a Knight I propose 15% out of my 100M ZEIT to be destined for that.
If the (some) other Kinghts would follow, we could easily collect 100-150M to pay the dev. I guess that would be a fair deal to start with, and finally we would have some visible contribution from the ZEIT community (apart from yours and Ray's contributions).

PS. regarding market cap I promised to not comment any more, however, please re-read carefully my previous post.

50 Thousand to 1 million coins per block will usually stake within 30 days.

Numbers below that take longer,
Bottom of the page has a chart
Stake Input Size for the last 1000 blocks
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/zeit/#!extraction


 

1.  I can't even find SatoshiFun on CMK.
2.  CONTINUUMCOIN has ZERO Markets listed in their CMK
Both of those coins are already basically dead.

In comparisons,
ZEIT has multiple Markets on Multiple exchanges in Different Countries.
We have a working Website & Working Block Explorers , they don't.


Development,
You do realize, I have been waiting since Jan. for Rent_A_Ray to have the time to update to Ultra Low Specs and compile a new wallet, which is understandable due to the time constraints placed on him by his real world situation.  
You want more development , then we are going to have to Pay some developers to help Ray with the coding, Ray is more than capable on the coding front, but his time is limited.  Developer pay ranges from $300 US to $600 for light to heavy changes.
If enough of you , are willing to combine funds to make that happen , let me know and we will go from there.

Just so everyone knows running ZEIT has never been free.
Rent_A_Ray and been covering the Domain & Website & SSL certificate out of his own pocket the entire time.
I have been covering the costs of the Chainz Block Explorer out of my own pocket the entire time.

Rent_A_Ray has been maintaining the wallet programming at zero charge to the community.
I have been doing tech support & free Blockchain Snapshots at zero charge to the community.
We both run full time nodes.

Mine & Ray's Time and Money are at their limit, so if you want more of anything for the time being,
You & the others are going to have to chip in together to make it happen.

5% rate changed to .0005% was voted on by the community & passed, that will happen at some point. (Hopefully in April or May)
Price will continue to drop per coin as inflation will continue to erode the marketcap until we change to Ultra Low.
Our only Salvation is moving to Ultra Low Inflation, sorry that is paramount and every other concern pales in comparison to it.
We change to Ultra Low or we die , there are no other options.

We can add every new feature under the sun, but to be honest until our inflation is controlled , absolutely none of it will matter.
Other coins add new features all of the time, it does not help their pricing at all.
(Because the majority of those new features are unnecessary.)

New features I am watching is header sync , but as of yet no one else has made a good working version of it for a PoS coin.
Once someone does we will start looking at it and integrating it into ZEIT , but if you want us on the bleeding edge of research & development,  
then the community will have to spend a lot of money to make it happen.
And this is the thing , most Alt communities don't want to spend additional money on those new features and are more than willing to let someone else be the one to spend the time and resources to develop a feature and then they can integrate it later with very little time and money required.

 

ok, I will give it a last chance, then I give up, as I don't want to waste my time any more.
take two altcoins as an example to see how misleading 'market cap' is, if you don't put volume/liquidity in the context:

SatoshiFun [HIFUN] (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hifun-satoshifun-scrypt-1-satoshi-fun-you-can-only-go-higher-1131278)
Total number of POW coins: 3 billion, currently at about 3.2 billion coins.
As far as I see, it is only traded on yobit now, last trade at 1 satoshi.
What is the market cap? still a chunky 16 BTC, nearly 20k$ in the current terms. Not bad, right? What is the liquidity?
Less than 0.1BTC in the last six months combined: https://yobit.net/en/trade/HIFUN/BTC#6M
Nobody wants to buy it, will probably disappear soon.

Not convinced yet? Let's get some extreme example then:

CONTINUUMCOIN (CTM) with total of 90 billion coins (sounds familiar, right?) and the last price well in sub satoshi levels. What is the market cap (or was at the time of last trade)? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/continuumcoin/#charts
A whooping 50 BTC. Excellent score, right? Nope. Simply, a misleading number, because of huge number of coins, as in case of ZEIT, and despite a very low price (5.613e-10 BTC), still somewhere sky high market cap. Coin disappeared, as many coins mentioned in this thread by Lion, simply because it was a scam. No matter the high market cap.

PS.
You may also argue that, with the same block time, CTM blocks were even more secure than ZEIT's (pun intended).

Bottom line: let's talk more about development of new features, and put less emphasis on the market cap. Otherwise, ZEIT will share the fate of the two coins mentioned above, or in the best case, it will be artificially kept alive be few zealots, with no real interest beyond that. Also, if you are so convinced about positive influence of the market cap, then don't cut the PoS rate. Let it grow by 5% to infinity. As soon as the price sinks less than 5% per year, ZEIT market cap will grow. Magic!

What minimum coins to mint?

Yep, hard to follow, cause I still don't know what you are talking about. 


 

sorry kiklo, but it looks you don't understand what is written.
I never wrote I don't believe in market cap, as such, if it is measured properly. I only wrote, I don't agree with applying the same metodology it is used for stocks to the altcoins, simply beacuse the liquidities do not match. Is it that hard to follow? Jeez louise...

Uki,
No one but you believes that nonsense that the marketcap does not matter.
So I don't know why you are thinking anyone agreed with you.

 

That will be this single day out of the whole year, like last year. that is why I wrote 364 days, not 365.

ok i will bet you 10M zeit that when the market cap hits 3600 btc (10 sats) the 24hr volume will be more than 1btc.

I believe we already agreed that the notion of 'market cap' used for altcoins is absolutely meaningless (my offer to sell 100M ZEIT at 10 sat to prove me wrong is still open and I doubt anybody will accept it), and so is the value of such an 'advertisement'. If that is the only way we want to draw the attention of broader public then we may as well keep the current PoS rate forever. We will grow the 'market cap', keeping the astonishing volume on all exchanges combined below 1BTC for 364 days of the year, as it happened last year.   

I am not going to have to convince any one , the facts will convince any one that bothers to look.
Our Price per coin will increase and therefore the marketcap will increase, that marketcap is the only advertisement we are going to need for a while.
Once it reaches high enough, then we can focus on getting out to the general populace thru paid advertisements.

Excuse me, who was it arguing for the ultra low inflation changes.
(it was me, I am not afraid of dramatic changes and will be paying directly out of my pocket 50 million Zeit to stakers and the Zeit jousting tournaments once Ray make the changes.)

The whole point is to move from an unsustainable Proof of Stake Inflationary model , to a sustainable Proof of Stake Transactions model ,
meaning you can make more coins from processing the transactions that you will from staking the blocks.
Unsustainable & Sustainable are in reference to the effects PoS inflation has on the price of a coin, not its energy usage which is equal.

Diving ZEIT#s by 3 zeros, stops global usage , cripples our network security , and destroys the chance for our marketcap to become that beacon that draws the larger community that we all want.
That is why I am against it. It would directly block what we need to happen with the Marketcap's advertising our coin.
Keeping Micro payments, being used Globally, staying usable in foreign markets are all part of the plan.
Much of the infrastructure we need has not been built yet , but it is getting there.
Sites like PoSwallet.com are needed , so that people like in Haiti  , that all have cell phones can access ZEIT, and use it there.
With Ultra Low Inflation , our price will stabilize and these poorer countries will be able to use our coin for their economies and as it's use grows there so its price will grow to the point that even 1st world countries use it , ZEIT will be an excellent form of barter payment between individuals and more.  

 

FYI:
In a PoS coin people stake whenever they want and leave their wallet closed for weeks at a time, never really losing anything.
In a PoST coin , people earn more from the transaction fees than the PoS reward,
so they make more coins by staking more blocks to earn more fees,  the less blocks they stake the less they earn,
it is a direct incentive to stay online and staking more than a standard PoS coin.  

Well, you have eight decimal places so even if the unit price is big, you are good enough to make it arbitrary low. (btw. either way, be it with huge numbers or with many zeros in front, an average Joe will have difficulties to grasp the meaning of it, being used to the fiat system).

Theoretically, you are right. Planning a globally accepted coin you have to think big. The problem I see, is, however, practically we are one of a zillion of insignificant coins that exists into the altcoins sphere. How would you convince a new user or investor to put, say $1k of his, hers, hard earned money into ZEIT, instead of any other coin?

Also, and that is finally touching the point I am trying to make here since quite a long time, if something is going wrong and you are afraid of introducing changes looking for the excuses like 'that is impossible with our code's (which btw. I have heard in many projects) then you are destined to vanish. If the code is an obstacle why not writing one that will permit such functionality? In the example above you may increase minimum value of the days in stake variable to keep hash proof of stake high, don't you?
In the end of the day, with bigger unit you may wait say 100 days to make your 0.0000001 gain on pos, instead of getting the fraction of it every 5 days. If we are thinking big there should be enough nodes in the network to keep it running even if we stack every 100 days.

also i would add mintcoin is 5% still. so zeit would be the only coin in history to explore this proof of stake model of distribution. no proof of stake coin has matured to the point where a transaction fee is incentive to stake. it is the fully evolved framework and something we can see happen here given the opportunity.

First off ,
we have been over this , but here is a repeat if you need it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZEITCOIN/comments/5yjyuc/why_does_zeit_needs_36_billion_coins/

 

There will probably be no new Knights this year, the inflation was just way too high for way too long, so even after the New Ultra Low is setup, it is going to take some time.
I am willing to be patient, as there is really no alternative unless you just want to cash out.

Even if no new knights ever join the ultra low inflation will solve the price per coin issue.  


 

probably a few only. MINT and ZEIT that I know out of my head, not sure what else.

But what does it really mean? If you think about distribution lasting three years, you have on one hand the advantages, like no premine (check), reasonably fair distribution (these who came first have the advantage anyway, but I would give it a check, too), and, also possibly coins are wide spread (how about this one?). There are also disadvantages, like losing a lot of enthusiasts in the process (check), having effectively a very small fraction of created coins in the circulation and active at all (check), becoming an 'unattractive old lady' (don't want to offend any one in here), a coin that seems unattractive to most of the potential new investors that is only kept alive by few bag holders (check). Did I miss something (for/against)? How does this balance?

I repeat, it is not that much about coin's parameters, it is about what the coin has to offer to attract a big community. How about ZEIT?
ZEIT has so far 14 Kinghts (recruitment window is open now, no new candidates have been seen so far) and, maybe, twice as much regular members altogether (looking at the last two years in this thread).
Is it enough to survive? Sure, as long as you still care to keep your wallet up to date.
But, is it enough to become a successful coin? Most likely, not.

how many had 3 years of high inflation distribution period before switching to low?

Probably no Top 100, if that is all the change that we will have to offer.
Look how many other ultra low PoS or even PoW are around and above on the list.

No Top 100, if zeitcoin does not change to ultra low