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Topic: [1200 TH] EMC: 0 Fee DGM. Anonymous PPS. US & EU servers. No Registration! - page 125. (Read 499602 times)

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
Inaba,

 How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
 Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!

Best!
Thiago

Why would we need ScamCoins  Huh

Because it is fun!! Tongue

And... Because this pool have it: http://mmpool.bitparking.com/pool

So, why we can't have it too?!

Also, with P2Pool we can enable even more coins...

Best!
Thiago
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Inaba,

 How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
 Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!

Best!
Thiago

Why would we need ScamCoins  Huh
Vbs
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
This is a new reward system for mining pools, a hybrid between PPLNS and the geometric method which combines advantages of both. It starts with PPLNS-like low share-based variance without operator risk, and then allows the operator to absorb some variance to decrease pool-based variance (which the geometric method can do, but not PPLNS). It is of course hopping-proof - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted. The variance and the maturity time (the time it takes to receive the reward) are independent of the pool's history and almost completely independent of future difficulty changes.

The bold part really sums it well for me. People need to look at DGM like it's PPS, even if at first it doesn't seem so - because it's a "PPS" that gets delayed over several blocks. But it's there - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it was submitted.
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000
฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!
Inaba,

 How hard is to enable more coins @ EclipseMC?!
 Like IXCoin, I0Coin and Devcoin?!

Best!
Thiago
woo
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
Anyone else's earnings for those lucky blocks really low? (A little more than half)

No, I wasn't playing BF3, and my shares/total shares ratio was unchanged.
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1054
Like I said its confusing. Even the eclipse FAQ section refers to making money off pool hoppers. DGM does not give you a less proportional pay out because you missed the last part of the round.

Meni "DGM doesn't care at all when you started or stopped mining. It doesn't try to detect hoppers and punish them. It rewards each share separately, in a way that is independent of the past and thus does not offer any incentive to hop."
I agree that this FAQ answer is poorly worded. I guess it was intended as "relative to proportional". Proportional loses to hopping, DGM is indifferent, so cross-relatively, DGM gains from hopping - [(Hoppers in DGM - normal miners in DGM) - (Hoppers in Prop - Normal in Prop)] = [0 - negative] = positive.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
We are bees, and we hate you.

We found 3 blocks in a 2 minute period. I'd just like to draw attention to that Four-Second Block.



That is all.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
We are bees, and we hate you.
Wow, 737 GH/s, highest I've seen here Shocked
It's a mighty fine pool! Cheesy
full member
Activity: 226
Merit: 100
Wow, 737 GH/s, highest I've seen here Shocked
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.

Consider DGM like a capacitor, you build up charge in the beginning, and as long as you keep mining, you don't lose charge.  Once you stop mining, you lose charge slowly and you get paid out even if you aren't "charging" the capacitor by mining, until it's completely empty.
Isnt that what normal old prop / score does?
In some sense, pretty much any reward system is similar to a capacitor if you stretch the analogy enough. But quantitatively, DGM behaves much more like a physical capacitor than other methods, which is why the analogy is more appropriate for it.

Notably, in hoppable methods the effect of shares on the capacitor depends on the pool's history, so some times are better than others.

It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.
DGM doesn't care about the pool's history. When you mine continuously the capacitor is at its full charge level (with some caveats irrelevant to the current topic). When you stop mining the capacitor starts discharging in a way that doesn't depend on the fact that 6.7M shares were already submitted in the round. What matters is not that you missed 20% of the block, but that you didn't mine for 1.7M shares, which with the current parameters is enough for your score to decay to the 40% level. Other hopping-proof methods are similar.

The mistake people make is thinking that the proportional method is some sort of gold standard other methods should measure up to. It's not, it's just a broken method. Looking at the % of shares submitted in the current round is meaningless.
Like I said its confusing. Even the eclipse FAQ section refers to making money off pool hoppers. DGM does not give you a less proportional pay out because you missed the last part of the round.

Meni "DGM doesn't care at all when you started or stopped mining. It doesn't try to detect hoppers and punish them. It rewards each share separately, in a way that is independent of the past and thus does not offer any incentive to hop."
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Ok, looks like that problem doesn't apply to my current base (I already had it set to April 1st anyway).

Whew... was dreading repatching everything, yuck!
sr. member
Activity: 604
Merit: 250
Yeah, looks like the same problem.  So it dates back much farther than rc1, since my base predates even the 600 release candidates or betas.

Ugh... I really don't want to go in and fix all the code again, it's a major pain patching in all my changes for the pool into bitcoind.


Apparently it can be 'fixed' by adjusting this commandline param as well: -paytoscripthashtime=1333238400 .. maybe that is easier on you.

(from this thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.789043)
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1054
It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.

Consider DGM like a capacitor, you build up charge in the beginning, and as long as you keep mining, you don't lose charge.  Once you stop mining, you lose charge slowly and you get paid out even if you aren't "charging" the capacitor by mining, until it's completely empty.
Isnt that what normal old prop / score does?
In some sense, pretty much any reward system is similar to a capacitor if you stretch the analogy enough. But quantitatively, DGM behaves much more like a physical capacitor than other methods, which is why the analogy is more appropriate for it.

Notably, in hoppable methods the effect of shares on the capacitor depends on the pool's history, so some times are better than others.

It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.
DGM doesn't care about the pool's history. When you mine continuously the capacitor is at its full charge level (with some caveats irrelevant to the current topic). When you stop mining the capacitor starts discharging in a way that doesn't depend on the fact that 6.7M shares were already submitted in the round. What matters is not that you missed 20% of the block, but that you didn't mine for 1.7M shares, which with the current parameters is enough for your score to decay to the 40% level. Other hopping-proof methods are similar.

The mistake people make is thinking that the proportional method is some sort of gold standard other methods should measure up to. It's not, it's just a broken method. Looking at the % of shares submitted in the current round is meaningless.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Yeah, looks like the same problem.  So it dates back much farther than rc1, since my base predates even the 600 release candidates or betas.

Ugh... I really don't want to go in and fix all the code again, it's a major pain patching in all my changes for the pool into bitcoind.
sr. member
Activity: 604
Merit: 250
Not sure if this is at all relevant.. but using the rc1 bitcoind build after yesterday results in huge problems. There was discussion about it in the P2Pool thread as well.

Oops. I see you posted about that above as well. It will be the same problem in 2 weeks and every 2 weeks after that I think until the P2SH date is set in stone.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
Nope, you don't get paid past the round you were mining in with prop.  With DGM, you get paid for ~7 blocks after you stop mining.
legendary
Activity: 2450
Merit: 1002
It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.

Consider DGM like a capacitor, you build up charge in the beginning, and as long as you keep mining, you don't lose charge.  Once you stop mining, you lose charge slowly and you get paid out even if you aren't "charging" the capacitor by mining, until it's completely empty.
Isnt that what normal old prop / score does?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.

Consider DGM like a capacitor, you build up charge in the beginning, and as long as you keep mining, you don't lose charge.  Once you stop mining, you lose charge slowly and you get paid out even if you aren't "charging" the capacitor by mining, until it's completely empty.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
It's just the pool size. Bad thing about DGM is the confusion of how it works. I missed the last 20% of that really long block, and received 40% of my normal payout. I still have no idea why it does that.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
What does DGM have to do with it?  Everything but PPS has the same issue.
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