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Topic: 750 GH/s - 3TH/s Miners from $3565 - www.bitcoinultra.co.uk - page 21. (Read 30609 times)

newbie
Activity: 46
Merit: 0
No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's


that's true, if all business is done within EU and both parties have EU VAT ID, then the seller does not charge tax on the invoice and adds something like "it is the buyer's responsibility to pay VAT according to the tax laws in the buyer's country"

On the buyer's side, the buyer needs to pay additional VAT in their home country just as if they got the product locally.

and yes, the VAT ID is important because if you don't get that on the EU invoice you can't actually use it for anything other than just a proof of purchase.


newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
So... how is production going?
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
i already raised that in previous threads but got ignored...  Grin

There are too much uncertainty between the lab and production. Stability testing could take much longer time than we thought. Stability is critical and time is vital in btc mining.

agreed, look at hashfast, customer pressure for timely shipping forced them to send out unstable babyjets in batch one, but that's a pre-order market. However, in this case, there is no caution required, as we won't be paying for anything until the units are stacked up in bitcoinultra warehouse, and will have been fully tested, and the building-order-shipping process totally assured.

hi raskul,

thanks for your input, but how could we know the miner is fully tested? I still think the caution is necessary here.

My major concern is that bitcoinultra does not have the real running miners for stability testing. Another providers of 28nm miners I am keeping track of called Jingtian miners which have their first 70T testing miners running in eligius.st since Jan 30, and already have 231 bitcoins as I just checked a few minutes ago and running very stable. What I am really worried is that since bitcoinultra have miners ready to ship, but why don't they put some miners running in a pool to test how it works and at same time reap some bitcoins for themself. That's why I said be careful, a little fishy here!

From this point of view, "We will NOT accept any pre-order payments, until our mining rigs are in full production" is a bold and risk promise. If the miner is not fully tested in real mining pool, how could they put it in full production? I am waiting for hard proof and hope they do not ship "unstable babyjets" as you mentioned in your post.

Sorry bclcjunkie, I missed your post. So just bring it up again. The following is a post from KyrosKrane which I think is great. We could open a new thread for fact-checking of new 28nm ASIC companies so that our miners will not get confused by promises/lies and missed the FACTs and got screwed.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5339564

Quote
Re: New price $6K for Jingtian 28nm 1T miner
February 24, 2014, 03:59:36 PM #32
Quote from: KyrosKrane
People tend to distrust ANY new poster on these boards, whether they speak good or bad. It takes time to build trust. A history of meaningful contributions and good trading experiences makes one more trustworthy.

Quote from:  jayson001
good point, KyrosKrane. We only focused on the fact not the bad mouth. I hope the miners companies could should more valid proof here, instead of only promises. I appreciate the fact that JT miner showing their real testing rigs running in a pool. I think this is valid proof that they have real rigs, and the stability and power consumption won't lie. We should encourage more companies to come out here doing the same things. I personally won't pay a penny until I saw the real running rigs showing me the promising results.

Quote from: KyrosKrane
On this, I disagree.  A link to pool stats is meaningless.  They could have just about anything generating those terahashes on the back end.  Even worse, assuming they really are real and functioning miners, then the pool stats are proof that they're pre-mining with the machines until they're worthless, at which point they will deliver them.  Not encouraging.

Real proof would be a video of the mining rig running, hooked up to a PC (or whatever) and very clearly isolated from other machines. Real proof would be honest communication about what chips are powering the machine, how many per board, how to hook it up, what power requirements are, and so on, alongside the video.  Real proof would be sending the machines to a few different trusted board members (I'd suggest ckolivas, Kano, and Luke-jr as they're the primary developers of mining software, plus a couple of hero-level members with good trust levels and plenty of trade history) for them to run, evaluate, and post photos and videos.

This is a suspicious community, and with good reason -- there are plenty of new scams every day, and most of them start out a lot like this post does.  When proof of a working product is provided, the community almost literally throws money at these legit firms.  Sadly, the less experienced will also throw money at the scammers, resulting in many fleeced newbies. As a community, we're hard on unproven companies in part to protect the newbies, and in part to protect ourselves.  But prove yourself to be a valuable contributor, and you will be welcomed with oodles of cash and coin.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
turbo mode??
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1220

Which existing ASIC chips are you using?

From your specs:

0.65 W/GH


We are using CoinCraft A1 chips from Bitmine

Could help from a software perspective?
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1220
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
... software ...
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

Excellent, what is your VAT number?

I'll post it on Monday when I'm back in the office

It may have slipped your memory Smiley

And the VAT number is?
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Cool Have a nice day.

Apparently you don't know how the law goes - VAT registered businesses in EU buying from other VAT registered businesses do not pay VAT at the point of purchase.

bitcoinultra, I assume the prices on your website would be VAT inclusive, right?

Yes company does not pay on the payout process but the VAT will be handled afterwards in any case.

Sorry for my articulation on the earlier message. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1220
No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Cool Have a nice day.

Apparently you don't know how the law goes - VAT registered businesses in EU buying from other VAT registered businesses do not pay VAT at the point of purchase.

bitcoinultra, I assume the prices on your website would be VAT inclusive, right?

Yeah mate they said they were VAT inclusive, even though they are in $ instead of £
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 502
No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Cool Have a nice day.

Apparently you don't know how the law goes - VAT registered businesses in EU buying from other VAT registered businesses do not pay VAT at the point of purchase.

bitcoinultra, I assume the prices on your website would be VAT inclusive, right?
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1220
No you are not correct

Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Cool Have a nice day.
I agree, that's how I know VAT to work... as a VAT registered company, you'll pay the VAT on the purchase and submit your VAT return at the end of the tax year to claim it back...

Actually we have all been over this a million times.

He is talking about buying/selling from companies in other countries and EU VAT rules.

There is an option if a VAT registered company buys from another VAT registered company in a different EU country, if the buyer supplies their VAT number to the seller then the seller does not have to charge the VAT.

e.g. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm

Quote
Zero-rating goods sold within the EU

If you're sending goods to someone who is genuinely registered for VAT in the destination EU country, you can zero-rate the supply for VAT purposes, provided you meet all the conditions below.

To account for the VAT on zero-rated sales to another EU country, include the value of the goods and services in your VAT Return in Box 6 and Box 8 in the usual way. If any VAT is due in the destination country, then your customer pays it to the tax office in their country.

You can only zero-rate these supplies when all these conditions are met:

    the goods are sent out of the UK to somewhere in another EU country
    whoever you're sending them to is genuinely registered for VAT in another EU country
    you get their VAT registration number - including the two letter country code - and show it on your sales invoice
    you've got paperwork showing that the goods have gone out of the UK - 'evidence of removal'
    you dispatch the goods and get evidence of removal within a set time - which is normally three months

Evidence of removal will include a number of things like:

  • customer orders
  • correspondence with customers
  • sales invoices
  • packing lists
  • invoices from hauliers
  • bank statements
  • consignment notes showing the goods have been received in another EU country

These documents must show details of:

  • your business
  • your customer
  • the goods and their value
  • the method of transport and route
  • where the goods are going to

The description of the goods mustn't be vague.

If the evidence is unsatisfactory, then you may have to pay all the VAT. You must keep all the evidence for six years and show it to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) if they ask to see it.

If you can't get this evidence in time you must account for VAT on your return when the time limit has passed.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
I got Satoshi's avatar!
No you are not correct

Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Cool Have a nice day.
I agree, that's how I know VAT to work... as a VAT registered company, you'll pay the VAT on the purchase and submit your VAT return at the end of the tax year to claim it back...
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's

It is not the mining companies that say how business law goes. It's the normal Tax-law.

We've been running business for 40 years in our family so I do know how the law goes. Just directing to the right path nothing else.

Cheers. Cool Have a nice day.
legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1004
No you are not correct


Ask knc and other mining European company
How you do the business's
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
From knc which is Sweden company
I did not pay vat


Why pay vat to you?


I have European company vat Id

So I did not pay vat




 If you have a valid European company VAT ID, enter it below.


Because if you have an IT-company inside EU you HAVE to pay VAT otherwise your doing illegal purchases avoiding to pay the TAX like all the other companies does. But when you buy with your company it does not matter how much is the VAT (tax) because at the end of TAX-session you get them off from your accounting.

Just simple normal business.
hero member
Activity: 818
Merit: 508
I noticed in the description on the Enigma 1 and 2 there is a usb hookup.  Is there an ethernet hook up?  Can they be ran as a standalone?

Thanks.
legendary
Activity: 2408
Merit: 1004
From knc which is Sweden company
I did not pay vat


Why pay vat to you?


I have European company vat Id

So I did not pay vat




 If you have a valid European company VAT ID, enter it below.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Just to confirm regarding VAT again.

Our company is VAT registered in the UK, any orders delivered within the EU are subject to VAT at 20% which is paid during checkout. and orders delivered outside of the EU are not subject to VAT and this isn't charged during the checkout process.

As we have already mentioned the published prices aren't our final production prices, we will have our final pricing confirmed later this week which will hopefully be lower.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1022
Anarchy is not chaos.
NO I MEAN SIMPLE LIKE KNC DO

NO VAT FOR PROFFESIONAL VAT NUMBER WITHIN EUROPE

WHERE IS THE PROBLEM

IF THESE COMPANY NOT KNOW THAT
SORRY IS NOT COMPANY
IS SCAM Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

... The bong, Jellin.... Hit the bong... then Caps Lock... deep breath.

VAT law is complicated. I am in the US, so I don't have to deal with it, but I very definitely recall the brouhaha over it in the KNC thread. Seems that while the EU has a published "standard", it's open to massive interpretation and endless debate. Give 'em a minute to get it sorted.

Not saying they aren't a scam, nor that they are. But this is a pretty minor technical detail up until they actually start taking money.

Oh, the first sentence is all in good fun. You seem awfully excitable Cheesy
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