ALLMINE INC - FPGA Cryptominer - page 11.

Iamtutut

full member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 131

Quote from: dazzmore on July 20, 2018, 05:01:07 PM

I don't see how that is illegal because the cards WILL eventually go to EU (dealing with VAT up front is less hassle for both parties in my opinion). Unless there is an agreement to ensure that cards will stay in the US, only then charging VAT for EU MIGHT be illegal. I don't work for ALLMINE; just my personal view on the whole VAT thing.

You don't see because you don't know.
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/eu-vat-rules-topic/chargeable-event-chargeability_en#_Imported_goods
"Importation of goods from outside the EU
Basic rule
The chargeable event occurs – and VAT becomes chargeable – when the following types of goods enter the EU"
goods that are not for free circulation in the EU

melpheos

jr. member

Activity: 557

Merit: 5

Quote from: dazzmore on July 20, 2018, 12:26:28 PM

I just skimmed through last few pages, and I think people are complaining about non-existence issue here. They are charing VAT because they don't know what your plan is at the end of hosting service; whether you want to continue hosting or you want your cards back (you paid full price for them, remember?). They are doing this to protect themselves, and if it is something you disagree with, I'd just request a refund before it's too late. Maybe they could work something out with you to ensure your cards will always stay in the US (like an agreement to sell at market price or donating them to a data center or something in the event of hosting service going belly up), just something to think about.

Sure at a point the card will be send to EU but only at the point it is legal to charge VAT. Nothing prevents them to charge VAT along with the shipping after the hosting is completed.

dazzmore

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

Quote from: Iamtutut on July 20, 2018, 02:25:16 PM

Quote from: dazzmore on July 20, 2018, 12:26:28 PM

I just skimmed through last few pages, and I think people are complaining about non-existence issue here. They are charing VAT because they don't know what your plan is at the end of hosting service; whether you want to continue hosting or you want your cards back (you paid full price for them, remember?). They are doing this to protect themselves, and if it is something you disagree with, I'd just request a refund before it's too late. Maybe they could work something out with you to ensure your cards will always stay in the US (like an agreement to sell at market price or donating them to a data center or something in the event of hosting service going belly up), just something to think about.

That's illegal, period.
They run established buisiness companies, they're not small time DIYers out of a developping country.

I don't see how that is illegal because the cards WILL eventually go to EU (dealing with VAT up front is less hassle for both parties in my opinion). Unless there is an agreement to ensure that cards will stay in the US, only then charging VAT for EU MIGHT be illegal. I don't work for ALLMINE; just my personal view on the whole VAT thing.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: Iamtutut on July 20, 2018, 02:25:16 PM

Quote from: dazzmore on July 20, 2018, 12:26:28 PM

I just skimmed through last few pages, and I think people are complaining about non-existence issue here. They are charing VAT because they don't know what your plan is at the end of hosting service; whether you want to continue hosting or you want your cards back (you paid full price for them, remember?). They are doing this to protect themselves, and if it is something you disagree with, I'd just request a refund before it's too late. Maybe they could work something out with you to ensure your cards will always stay in the US (like an agreement to sell at market price or donating them to a data center or something in the event of hosting service going belly up), just something to think about.

That's illegal, period.
They run established buisiness companies, they're not small time DIYers out of a developping country.

Are you even one of the orders?

There are only a handful of orders from the EU. Of those orders, a good percentage are companies with VAT IDs that didn't pay any vat at all to begin with. It seems like the only people who are in an uproar over this are people who aren't customers. I think the number of people who were vat paying EU orders that also had mineority hosting were 2. 3 pages of posts here and endless chatter on discord..... over... 2 orders...

Iamtutut

full member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 131

Quote from: dazzmore on July 20, 2018, 12:26:28 PM

I just skimmed through last few pages, and I think people are complaining about non-existence issue here. They are charing VAT because they don't know what your plan is at the end of hosting service; whether you want to continue hosting or you want your cards back (you paid full price for them, remember?). They are doing this to protect themselves, and if it is something you disagree with, I'd just request a refund before it's too late. Maybe they could work something out with you to ensure your cards will always stay in the US (like an agreement to sell at market price or donating them to a data center or something in the event of hosting service going belly up), just something to think about.

That's illegal, period.
They run established buisiness companies, they're not small time DIYers out of a developping country.

dazzmore

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

I just skimmed through last few pages, and I think people are complaining about non-existence issue here. They are charing VAT because they don't know what your plan is at the end of hosting service; whether you want to continue hosting or you want your cards back (you paid full price for them, remember?). They are doing this to protect themselves, and if it is something you disagree with, I'd just request a refund before it's too late. Maybe they could work something out with you to ensure your cards will always stay in the US (like an agreement to sell at market price or donating them to a data center or something in the event of hosting service going belly up), just something to think about.

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: TheRealCashen on July 20, 2018, 10:39:33 AM

Haven't been around in a couple weeks.

Any update with when we think they will ship?

August is still the delivery target / expected delivery time -- We're still waiting for Xilinx to let us know when the first boards will be off the assembly line.

TheRealCashen

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Haven't been around in a couple weeks.

Any update with when we think they will ship?

senseless

hero member

Activity: 1118

Merit: 541

Quote from: dragonmike on July 20, 2018, 04:38:44 AM

Quote from: Longsnowsm on July 19, 2018, 02:49:57 PM

Something seems off if you are hosting with Mineority and the product is some place outside of the the EU I do not see how they can get away with charging VAT. Something is wrong with someones understanding of how this should work. This needs to be challenged. If you had the product shipped to you in the EU then certainly you owe VAT, but for a hosting service? That isn't right!

No it's not right.
But they aren't budging. Which is concerning.

I've offered refunds to those EU orders who submitted support tickets regarding the issue. If you'd like your order refunded let me know send an email to sales [at] fpga dot land.

dragonmike

hero member

Activity: 1274

Merit: 556

Quote from: Longsnowsm on July 19, 2018, 02:49:57 PM

Something seems off if you are hosting with Mineority and the product is some place outside of the the EU I do not see how they can get away with charging VAT. Something is wrong with someones understanding of how this should work. This needs to be challenged. If you had the product shipped to you in the EU then certainly you owe VAT, but for a hosting service? That isn't right!

No it's not right.
But they aren't budging. Which is concerning.

Longsnowsm

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 517

Something seems off if you are hosting with Mineority and the product is some place outside of the the EU I do not see how they can get away with charging VAT. Something is wrong with someones understanding of how this should work. This needs to be challenged. If you had the product shipped to you in the EU then certainly you owe VAT, but for a hosting service? That isn't right!

killquentin

newbie

Activity: 1

Merit: 0

there is also an additional tax on parts which got manufactured in China, US takes 25% on top...

just for parts which get imported to the US

Iamtutut

full member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 131

Quote from: RivAngE on July 17, 2018, 02:29:36 PM

In their site's FAQ, they're saying (about GPUs),

Where are my GPU cards located?
Your GPU cards are located in one of our data centers in either the United States or Europe.

So I was wondering, can't I just buy an FPGA which will be hosted in a European center and then shipped from Europe? Or no matter what, they'll ship from US to a European center and I'll get charged the import fees?

Europe doesn't necessary means EU.

And I think the country of origin regarding custom clearance rules will always be USA, unless the final assembly does not take place is the US.

What is not legal is to charge the import VAT on the FPGA itself as long as the FPGA is not being delivered to the buyer. And the buyer has to bear his/her country's VAT. The EU countries VAT rates vary from 17% to 25%, six EU countries only having a 20% VAT rate. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/sites/taxation/files/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf

melpheos

jr. member

Activity: 557

Merit: 5

Quote from: Searing on July 18, 2018, 12:20:50 PM

I agree...but if such happened to me...and I found out I paid VAT for USA hosting..at the average EU rate (more than 1/2) from what
I can tell at 20% VAT ...I'd be pissed...legit or not...would show bad management under the 'best' of circumstances...

brad

Being in Europe, I wont escape VAT (well I already paid it because I bought it with FPGA land anyway and shipped to me)
But indeed 20% hurts

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: Mashy81 on July 18, 2018, 01:26:11 PM

There is a simple solution to not pay the tax.
Dont buy the cards

yep...the group buy allowing the majority of these cards to go to the hosting place...also is not cool...

not looking good IMHO, bringing up unneeded doubts ..if this project is on the up and up

just saying

Mashy81

jr. member

Activity: 225

Merit: 1

There is a simple solution to not pay the tax.
Dont buy the cards

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: melpheos on July 18, 2018, 12:14:57 PM

Quote from: Searing on July 18, 2018, 07:45:52 AM

Depends...if they buy the cards for the USA then they ship to a USA site...NO VAT...if they ship to EU and then they ship and host

to a USA site, then you'd have a VAT charge

Seems dumb, (if not fishy) if it ends up in a USA site that they would have it go to EU first and then have VAT charge. More likely

then such an arrangement (if it existed for them or anyone else) is IF they said there was a VAT and it was hosted in a USA site

it would be just a way to get 20% supposed VAT charge added to the card...that whatever firm saying this could pocket the $$$.

not saying that is the case, but would raise my eyebrows, is such convoluted logic was used to justify a VAT charge on a USA site

from ANY manufacturer of anything....not just these guys...

brad

Well I guess it's a possibility like the possibility to go from the USA to Canada via Peru. It's possible, it just doesn't make sense.

I agree...but if such happened to me...and I found out I paid VAT for USA hosting..at the average EU rate (more than 1/2) from what

I can tell at 20% VAT ...I'd be pissed...legit or not...would show bad management under the 'best' of circumstances...

brad

melpheos

jr. member

Activity: 557

Merit: 5

Quote from: Searing on July 18, 2018, 07:45:52 AM

Depends...if they buy the cards for the USA then they ship to a USA site...NO VAT...if they ship to EU and then they ship and host

to a USA site, then you'd have a VAT charge

Seems dumb, (if not fishy) if it ends up in a USA site that they would have it go to EU first and then have VAT charge. More likely

then such an arrangement (if it existed for them or anyone else) is IF they said there was a VAT and it was hosted in a USA site

it would be just a way to get 20% supposed VAT charge added to the card...that whatever firm saying this could pocket the $$$.

not saying that is the case, but would raise my eyebrows, is such convoluted logic was used to justify a VAT charge on a USA site

from ANY manufacturer of anything....not just these guys...

brad

Well I guess it's a possibility like the possibility to go from the USA to Canada via Peru. It's possible, it just doesn't make sense.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: OurManInHavana on July 18, 2018, 07:23:37 AM

Quote from: RivAngE on July 17, 2018, 02:29:36 PM

In their site's FAQ, they're saying (about GPUs),

Where are my GPU cards located?
Your GPU cards are located in one of our data centers in either the United States or Europe.

So I was wondering, can't I just buy an FPGA which will be hosted in a European center and then shipped from Europe? Or no matter what, they'll ship from US to a European center and I'll get charged the import fees?

I believe Minority has said that GPU packages could be hosted in the US or Europe, but they'll only be hosting the BCU FPGA's in the US.

Depends...if they buy the cards for the USA then they ship to a USA site...NO VAT...if they ship to EU and then they ship and host

to a USA site, then you'd have a VAT charge

Seems dumb, (if not fishy) if it ends up in a USA site that they would have it go to EU first and then have VAT charge. More likely

then such an arrangement (if it existed for them or anyone else) is IF they said there was a VAT and it was hosted in a USA site

it would be just a way to get 20% supposed VAT charge added to the card...that whatever firm saying this could pocket the $$$.

not saying that is the case, but would raise my eyebrows, is such convoluted logic was used to justify a VAT charge on a USA site

from ANY manufacturer of anything....not just these guys...

brad

melpheos

jr. member

Activity: 557

Merit: 5

Quote from: Iamtutut on July 16, 2018, 04:20:27 AM

The customs duties have to be paid when the good is shipped and at the entry point in the EU, so before delivery. VAT for "consumption" has to be paid in the country of destination that can differ from the entry point in the EU, and also BEFORE delivery. In the meantime, the status of the good is "transit" (this rule is know as "regim 42").
I already wrote here that NO EU TAX is due on the items themselves as long as they stay hosted at mineority, read my posts here.

Talking about stocks irrelevant, there is a specific set of rules for stocks.

This is absolutely correct.
Actualy if the hosting is outside EU, there shouldn't VAT charged. The only VAT charged could be the one in the state where the hosting is done.
This is straight from gov.uk website !
https://www.gov.uk/vat-businesses/when-not-to-charge-vat

Quote from: the freaking UK govt

Out of scope

Some goods and services are outside the VAT tax system so you can’t charge or reclaim the VAT on them. For example, out of scope items include:

goods or services you buy and use outside of the EU

Mineority should change it's accountant because he is terrible.

Topic: ALLMINE INC - FPGA Cryptominer - page 11. (Read 51510 times)