Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now! - page 169. (Read 529056 times)

It's doubtful at this point we will even see a working prototype by the 15th!

Another thought which came across was, I wonder if their company is insured? If not, that could be disastrous for folks.

Pure speculation: They get their equipment together finally, and because they're in a less-than-savory neighborhood, something happens and all of the equipment is "stolen". They're left without a product. Without insurance, they can't pay anyone back. And their doors close.

Searing, BFL has been successfully sued numerous times, 25 or more. There's a couple of threads on here which contain the links to the court cases. It's just not well published because BFL does a good job with avoiding the blacklight, and lots of people don't dig deep enough. The Neptunes finally shipped, but you have to admit that despite needing specific power supplies (which was a known factor prior to pre-ordering), they run well. And they run faster than spec. The Titans I'm sure will be similar.

As to the T&C, in few cultured civilizations is it legal to have a term which says the OEM is free from neglect or products outside of spec. I forget the actual legal clause, but you can't tie someone's hands like that. It's not legal in the US, and the UK's consumer laws are even tighter than the US's. Further, imports and customs requirements dictate that the product fall in line with the country's laws in which it's being imported. This is why a new OEM setting up for global shipping is under a lot of scrutiny to get things right. It's another reason why AT has come under such focus, because a lot of folks are going "yeah, that won't pass".

That's part of why the CE process is so vital, it shows that yes, this product is within spec. They didn't even talk about certification until weeks after it was brought up.

I don't believe they opened with malicious intentions, but they became overwhelmed because they were poorly prepared. Then again, who knows with how shifty they've become lately.

Contracts are not protection from consumer fraud. No matter what type of legalese and spin is spun fraud is fraud and the courts would throw said contract in the trash. The butthurt on this will be nasty!

well no idea KNC has kinda gone to the dark side on stuff....little info....neptunes were a mess with power supply issues check out the threads to catch up

as to the Titan I may do ok..better then if i woulda kept my neptune customer appreciation issue .....looks like they won't make ROI before the rest of the bitcoin dump is

if you got a 1st batch Titan you are likely ok..but not sure about getting a min titan now with all the asic dump in bitcoin and scrypt

no clue...but make your own deicisons on the knc thread

as for my Titan I am just hoping it arrives not in a pile of parts (3th jupiter option) and/or like the neptune needing 'specfic' power supplies and actual power plug mods or splitters to get the unit to fire up (see thread on bitcoin talk it is a zoo)

so as to the Titan...champ or chump with no refund and only 3 month warrenty know ...no way to know

also they have already stated Titan is the 'last consumer product' imho they are just gonna go design chip to their farm period fast/easy most $$$

but don't know scrypt we might be ok ..bitcoin miner in aug/sept with all the crap hitting the skids...could be real rough

Searing

er links ...the below is the standard link you likely know about
on bitcointalk

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0;topicseen

just do a search of KNC etc there are more

so sad knc it is like they were a Nun and decided to become a stripper cause it paid better..man was i blindsided

Searing

Can you provide any links to threads about the issues with KNC Titans?  I have been out of the loop since my son was born in Feb but I do have 100mh of Alpha-T vipers , deposit paid waiting for cc payment system to pay the balance. I did consider cancelling the A-T order and ordering a batch 2 KNC Mini Titan but was unaware they are also playing the no info games?

M

Well have they gone belly up yet...or are they waiting till around Aug 1st to announce such...

ie no prototype

ie no info

ie no product

Searing

Right but we aren't talking about replacing a broken product.  We are talking about compensation for lost revenue resulting from a broken product.  There is a huge difference between me selling you a 10k server, it breaking, and me owing you 10k, and me selling you a 10k server, it breaking, and me owing you 50mil in lost revenue from not having a server.  The latter is what that guy is asking for, and there is simply no jurisdiction anywhere that he is going to get it from. 
Thats just one problem.   There are many, many other problems with the contract, all of which I have already listed previously and so I won't get into again.  The fact is people like that didn't read wtf they were signing.  Which is fine if you're buying a 50 dollar video game on steam or something, but if your spending thousands of dollars.....kind of a bad idea.

Where do the units ship from? That determines which laws they fall under, right?

USA laws are tough but currently not being enforced....Butterfly Labs has been 10 months behind on both 65mm and current 28mm products consistently since around nov 2012....w/o out any enforcement ..money talks in usa ....so likely alpha and others looked at hashfast / bfl / etc and figured they had little to lose if it all went 'poof' in the nite..they are likely correct at least in usa

Searing

Well, I don't know about the US law, but in the UK, under the sales & goods act, the product has to be fit for purpose. If it breaks because it's a piece of badly made garbage, then the product does not meet your expectations, and is therefore covered under that condition. If the product specifications do not match what's been advertised, again, same principle applies.

You're right in that responsibility ends at that point, and that you can't really claim for damages caused as a result of the product not being fit for purpose, but the seller is entirely responsible for product doing what is expected of it.

I realize that here in the USA contract law tends to be much stricter than in other parts of the world.  Even so, I would be very curious what part of UK law you are referring to when you say such a clause is illegal.  Do you actually have a law in mind (and if so, which one) or are you just talking out of your ass?  Again, I realize this is coming from the USA and not the UK, but virtually every warranty you get here specifically excludes compensation for incidental damages (example, you buy a server and it breaks.  They can be made to pay for the server, but not the money you lost from not having a working server).  They have been consistently upheld by the courts, and in most cases so have TOSs.  Now we do know that UK law makes their clause about no returns illegal, but I would be very surprised if you had a law that makes it illegal to bar incidental damages.  I'm always willing to learn though, which law do you speak of?

But see here is the thing, and this is why this sort of shit continues to happen.  Now, I will be the first to say these AT guys are a bunch of scumbags.  In fact, I HAVE been saying it the whole time.  But at the same time, isn't there at least some level of personal responsibility that goes into this?  I mean, you read a contract where they write right into the contract that they can purposefully rip you off and they are not responsible, legal or illegal, that didn't give anyone pause before sending them thousands of dollars?  The fact that exactly 0 of these preorders have ever gone well for the customer, that didn't give anyone pause?  I mean, GAW miners just released yet another one of these preorders about a week ago and I have seen some of the same people who got ripped off here, post over there that they preordered from them.  It's like, wtf really?

But if it contradicts consumer law, then the contract isn't valid. That's like saying you can commit a criminal act just because a contract says you can. It's erroneous. Their legal team blurb is nonsense. You take their T&Cs to a real lawyer and they'll tear it apart.

Actually, you signed a contract that specifically states you are NOT entitled to compensation for their negligence. 

In fact you are wrong, it is people who come in late who should not be able to cancel.

Refer to Buttrerfly Labs.

After long delays they told everyone: sorry champs but it's not going to happen soon here's your full refund back.

Same here, yes we've ordered, yes there was end of July promise which Retro72 has.

If they do not deliver any time soon, then there is precedence in the market of full refund.

His very nice lawyer shiny like my shoe (or like a witty shit under light) would understand what precedence means in law.

And any upgrade that was offered was not because of delays, it was their willful desire to attract customers as they kept opening and closing the batch. So it is not a compensation.

Also a 5 MHs miner in June is better than a 250 MHs end of August.

And they misguided us, poor us the original customers, they tricked us and cheated us and promised they had started back in May last year and promised that they had no competition and promised t hat they will deliver before anyone and promised and promised I made my lifeplan decisions around these promises and now I am in shatters and it is all their fault and I am entitled to full compensation from their negligence and misguiding practices.

Seems like I'm also one of those suckers who just have to take his losses.

Just an update,
   After receiving 3 different emails from Alpha with 2 differing refund amounts, I finally received this message today.

"Hello there,

Your order has been successfully refunded. Please allow 1-5 working days for this payment to clear."

This was in response to an email I sent clarifying that I was indeed inside of the 75% purchase period. So, here's hoping?

If you remember previously, the order was placed on March 28th and cancelled on June 7th.
I'll update everyone if the transfer goes through and if it's for the correct amount!

EDIT: Received another email saying that a note was added to my account. The note reads "refunded 537.50" which is the correct amount so long as they issued it in GBP. So, there's that.

Denial - Myopic
take your pick - feels like I've been here before though


Seriously it's a shame its come to this. - I'd be interested to see how many UK miners were caught by alpha.
When I put this option to a selection of interested friends months ago no one wanted to touch it - We are pretty local to that part of the world and it just didn't feel right.

Anyway best of luck to you who took a punt. 

If they don't deliver i think you should gather forces and try this in court.

Maybe the best solution for the future is to never accept pre-payment on asics ever again. It's to easy to lure people on money the way it is today.
I invested in Fibonacci and i will for sure never send any money before there is an actual product.

talk about denial, can you read a basic chart?

http://coinmarketcap.com/ltc_180.html