Topic: Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now! - page 185. (Read 529056 times)
June 15, 2014, 07:37:57 PM
Do these things have any resale value?
June 15, 2014, 05:38:10 PM
@IAS
You may doubt my intentions but I'm asking questions you should be asking.
Alpha Technologies shouldn't be afraid of scrutiny. If they are a legitimate company they shouldn't lie to their customers about UK consumer law. They should be happy to provide all the information their customers ask for, they shouldn't ban people from their forums for asking legitimate questions and their development partners should be happy to issue a press release about the state of their relationship.
So far their much lauded transparency has consisted of a few badly written newsletters with 2 photos of PCBs with absolutely no context. They are not shown with the dev team, in a factory or lab, just PCB's, on a white table.
Look at these updates from Cointerra:
Fab out/Bump out announced Dec/11/2013 http://cointerra.com/asic-processor-fabout-bumpout-dates-announced/
Wafers received Dec/28/2013 http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-fabout-bumpout-completed-sorting-packaging-underway/
First chips packaged Dec/31/2013 http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/
Testing and Diagnostics Jan/7/2014 http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-asic-bringup-diagnostic-testing/
Testing completed Jan/20/2014 http://cointerra.com/update-prototype-testing-completed-certification-production-week/
Shipment begins Jan/28/2014 http://cointerra.com/pr-cointerra-begins-shipment-terraminer-iv-worlds-fastest-bitcoin-miner/
Even KNC produced a decent press release once upon a time
http://www.alchip.com/news_01.php?id=128
I had a large order with Cointerra and even with all these wonderful updates they were over a month late and produced an unreliable piece of garbage.
You can see from Cointerra's updates Alpha should have plenty of pictures to show you if they are days away for getting their chips, even just a picture of the wafers. I don't understand why they wouldn't do this.
Cointerra had cases built and mocked up in December. Alpha haven't even bothered to update their CGI render.
For me there are too many red flags:
1)lying
2)no evidence of wafers/chips
3)No enclosures designed or manufactured. 4-6 weeks out from shipping, that's cutting it fine.
4)CE certification. Not sure about this one. Seemed to take Cointerra 2-3 days. Not sure how long it takes in the UK/Europe.
5)Way past their stated timeline. They will have to cut corners to get these units out on time. Notably using risk lot chips and testing time.
I'll happily shut my mouth if Alpha produce strong evidence of being anywhere near a July delivery at their next update and I'll come back here for a public hazing if they actually deliver a reliable, to spec asic on time. But right now, at this very moment, I'm not convinced and it seems many of Alpha's customers aren't either.
You may doubt my intentions but I'm asking questions you should be asking.
Alpha Technologies shouldn't be afraid of scrutiny. If they are a legitimate company they shouldn't lie to their customers about UK consumer law. They should be happy to provide all the information their customers ask for, they shouldn't ban people from their forums for asking legitimate questions and their development partners should be happy to issue a press release about the state of their relationship.
So far their much lauded transparency has consisted of a few badly written newsletters with 2 photos of PCBs with absolutely no context. They are not shown with the dev team, in a factory or lab, just PCB's, on a white table.
Look at these updates from Cointerra:
Fab out/Bump out announced Dec/11/2013 http://cointerra.com/asic-processor-fabout-bumpout-dates-announced/
Wafers received Dec/28/2013 http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-fabout-bumpout-completed-sorting-packaging-underway/
First chips packaged Dec/31/2013 http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-goldstrike-packaged-chips-system-board-assembly/
Testing and Diagnostics Jan/7/2014 http://cointerra.com/engineering-update-asic-bringup-diagnostic-testing/
Testing completed Jan/20/2014 http://cointerra.com/update-prototype-testing-completed-certification-production-week/
Shipment begins Jan/28/2014 http://cointerra.com/pr-cointerra-begins-shipment-terraminer-iv-worlds-fastest-bitcoin-miner/
Even KNC produced a decent press release once upon a time
http://www.alchip.com/news_01.php?id=128
I had a large order with Cointerra and even with all these wonderful updates they were over a month late and produced an unreliable piece of garbage.
You can see from Cointerra's updates Alpha should have plenty of pictures to show you if they are days away for getting their chips, even just a picture of the wafers. I don't understand why they wouldn't do this.
Cointerra had cases built and mocked up in December. Alpha haven't even bothered to update their CGI render.
For me there are too many red flags:
1)lying
2)no evidence of wafers/chips
3)No enclosures designed or manufactured. 4-6 weeks out from shipping, that's cutting it fine.
4)CE certification. Not sure about this one. Seemed to take Cointerra 2-3 days. Not sure how long it takes in the UK/Europe.
5)Way past their stated timeline. They will have to cut corners to get these units out on time. Notably using risk lot chips and testing time.
I'll happily shut my mouth if Alpha produce strong evidence of being anywhere near a July delivery at their next update and I'll come back here for a public hazing if they actually deliver a reliable, to spec asic on time. But right now, at this very moment, I'm not convinced and it seems many of Alpha's customers aren't either.
June 15, 2014, 04:08:16 PM
Mention of AT in CoinDesk.
Source: www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-bbb-warning-alpha-technology-pool-attack
It's from Coindesk so it must be true Quote
Alpha Technology says it’s still working with Dexcel
Rendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha TechnologyRendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha Technology
Manchester, UK-based Alpha Technology, which plans to bring a powerful scrypt miner to market, says that it still has a key partnership with Dexcel Designs in place. Mohammed Akram, Director of Alpha Techology, told CoinDesk:
“Our partnership with Dexcel is fine. We have actually completed most of our design work, all work now is from the foundry and our manufacturing partners.”
Rumors of a possible breakdown in relations between Alpha and Dexcel have caused some turmoil. Customers who already preordered mining units began requesting refunds en masse.
The company says that they are still on schedule to begin shipping units in July. It currently has two different models on its website. They are both called the Viper, and one has 50MH/s of power at 375W for £1,350. A more powerful version of the Viper has 250MH/s of power at 1,875W for £5,450.00.
Rendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha TechnologyRendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha Technology
Manchester, UK-based Alpha Technology, which plans to bring a powerful scrypt miner to market, says that it still has a key partnership with Dexcel Designs in place. Mohammed Akram, Director of Alpha Techology, told CoinDesk:
“Our partnership with Dexcel is fine. We have actually completed most of our design work, all work now is from the foundry and our manufacturing partners.”
Rumors of a possible breakdown in relations between Alpha and Dexcel have caused some turmoil. Customers who already preordered mining units began requesting refunds en masse.
The company says that they are still on schedule to begin shipping units in July. It currently has two different models on its website. They are both called the Viper, and one has 50MH/s of power at 375W for £1,350. A more powerful version of the Viper has 250MH/s of power at 1,875W for £5,450.00.
Source: www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-bbb-warning-alpha-technology-pool-attack
So this is Fiaz's answer to a customer, yet again asking for an update (https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=661.0)
Re: Viper progress
« Reply #1 on: Today at 02:28:02 PM »
Quote from: Mario on Today at 01:52:22 PM
Is the viper development done in July Will the shipment also start then ??
are the chips done yet ??
when can we expect an update ??
Fiaz:
Yes development will be done in July, and we will start shipping then. This will be anywhere from the 15th (best case) to the end of July. The chips are nearly ready and we will release a big update with full specs soon after the payment processor is up.
Did anyone else catch that? "we will release a big update with full specs soon AFTER the payment processor is up"
Doesn't this strike you as odd? Why not release an update now? Why wait until after the payment processor is up? Surely if the chips are nearly ready they must have the wafers? Why not post a picture? Why not say when Fab out and Bump out were started and completed or when they went for packaging?
This just doesn't pass the smell test. Waiting until after they have a payment processor, means Alpha can take non refundable payments from the presumably many holdouts, then tell them anything they want and they just have to swallow it.
I wouldn't pay a penny more until Alpha release an update. A revised roadmap that details how they intend to deliver these devices in July wouldn't go amiss either. I don't think that's an unreasonable request considering how much money's at stake.
I can only hope that their announcement will cause people to believe they are on track AND to sell out the rest of their units due to however many cancellations happened.
If you are right with your comments, then thank you, but if you are proven wrong in the end, there will probably be more than a few unhappy campers at the fear mongered. I'm not saying this in a bad way, honestly, if you are correct then thank you as you saved a lot of people some money (and perhaps made them money too boot as they would just buy coins with that money.) But if you are
wrong, then it is on you (and I or anyone who listened as each has to take responsibility for listening.)
But it doesn't strike me as odd at all. We essentially got a free extension to pay due to the payment processor lag. Well, if they can truly show us something is in the works, then perhaps all the questioning was for a better good. The chips apparently are close to ready, so there is no pic to post and when they are ready then you will get the pick.
You seem to have taken an extreme stance with Alpha, perhaps it is warranted due to all the bad fiasco's that came before and it caught AT off guard, so now they have to be careful and more transparent. (But, if you balanced your fear with what is going right, I think more people would listen, so I'm not 100% sure of your intention. Seems like you mean well, but the extreme perspective probably makes people question and I don't think anyone is shocked you got kicked off their forum.) I hope it works out in the end. Hopefully what Alpha tells us once the payment processor is up, is clearly verifiable. Don't look past the fact that they have a family business and such and are public personalities at this point, they are not going to be running away from this (and I'm not saying they would). I really don't see this as a scam, if anything, just a typically executed mining venture but time will tell.
All I can say at this time is "I don't know" and I'm waiting, reading and contemplating what to do next.
Thx,
Its about sharing
June 15, 2014, 03:01:58 PM
This doesn't bode well at all. Really wishing I would've paid the remainder of my order with a credit card now
Hope this doesn't turn into another HashFast situation
Hope this doesn't turn into another HashFast situation
June 15, 2014, 03:01:19 PM
Mention of AT in CoinDesk.
Source: www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-bbb-warning-alpha-technology-pool-attack
It's from Coindesk so it must be true Quote
Alpha Technology says it’s still working with Dexcel
Rendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha TechnologyRendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha Technology
Manchester, UK-based Alpha Technology, which plans to bring a powerful scrypt miner to market, says that it still has a key partnership with Dexcel Designs in place. Mohammed Akram, Director of Alpha Techology, told CoinDesk:
“Our partnership with Dexcel is fine. We have actually completed most of our design work, all work now is from the foundry and our manufacturing partners.”
Rumors of a possible breakdown in relations between Alpha and Dexcel have caused some turmoil. Customers who already preordered mining units began requesting refunds en masse.
The company says that they are still on schedule to begin shipping units in July. It currently has two different models on its website. They are both called the Viper, and one has 50MH/s of power at 375W for £1,350. A more powerful version of the Viper has 250MH/s of power at 1,875W for £5,450.00.
Rendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha TechnologyRendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha Technology
Manchester, UK-based Alpha Technology, which plans to bring a powerful scrypt miner to market, says that it still has a key partnership with Dexcel Designs in place. Mohammed Akram, Director of Alpha Techology, told CoinDesk:
“Our partnership with Dexcel is fine. We have actually completed most of our design work, all work now is from the foundry and our manufacturing partners.”
Rumors of a possible breakdown in relations between Alpha and Dexcel have caused some turmoil. Customers who already preordered mining units began requesting refunds en masse.
The company says that they are still on schedule to begin shipping units in July. It currently has two different models on its website. They are both called the Viper, and one has 50MH/s of power at 375W for £1,350. A more powerful version of the Viper has 250MH/s of power at 1,875W for £5,450.00.
Source: www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-bbb-warning-alpha-technology-pool-attack
So this is Fiaz's answer to a customer, yet again asking for an update (https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=661.0)
Re: Viper progress
« Reply #1 on: Today at 02:28:02 PM »
Quote from: Mario on Today at 01:52:22 PM
Is the viper development done in July Will the shipment also start then ??
are the chips done yet ??
when can we expect an update ??
Fiaz:
Yes development will be done in July, and we will start shipping then. This will be anywhere from the 15th (best case) to the end of July. The chips are nearly ready and we will release a big update with full specs soon after the payment processor is up.
Did anyone else catch that? "we will release a big update with full specs soon AFTER the payment processor is up"
Doesn't this strike you as odd? Why not release an update now? Why wait until after the payment processor is up? Surely if the chips are nearly ready they must have the wafers? Why not post a picture? Why not say when Fab out and Bump out were started and completed or when they went for packaging?
This just doesn't pass the smell test. Waiting until after they have a payment processor, means Alpha can take non refundable payments from the presumably many holdouts, then tell them anything they want and they just have to swallow it.
I wouldn't pay a penny more until Alpha release an update. A revised roadmap that details how they intend to deliver these devices in July wouldn't go amiss either. I don't think that's an unreasonable request considering how much money's at stake.
June 15, 2014, 11:33:23 AM
Mention of AT in CoinDesk.
Source: www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-bbb-warning-alpha-technology-pool-attack
Quote
Alpha Technology says it’s still working with Dexcel
Rendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha TechnologyRendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha Technology
Manchester, UK-based Alpha Technology, which plans to bring a powerful scrypt miner to market, says that it still has a key partnership with Dexcel Designs in place. Mohammed Akram, Director of Alpha Techology, told CoinDesk:
“Our partnership with Dexcel is fine. We have actually completed most of our design work, all work now is from the foundry and our manufacturing partners.”
Rumors of a possible breakdown in relations between Alpha and Dexcel have caused some turmoil. Customers who already preordered mining units began requesting refunds en masse.
The company says that they are still on schedule to begin shipping units in July. It currently has two different models on its website. They are both called the Viper, and one has 50MH/s of power at 375W for £1,350. A more powerful version of the Viper has 250MH/s of power at 1,875W for £5,450.00.
Rendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha TechnologyRendering of the Viper scrypt miner. Source: Alpha Technology
Manchester, UK-based Alpha Technology, which plans to bring a powerful scrypt miner to market, says that it still has a key partnership with Dexcel Designs in place. Mohammed Akram, Director of Alpha Techology, told CoinDesk:
“Our partnership with Dexcel is fine. We have actually completed most of our design work, all work now is from the foundry and our manufacturing partners.”
Rumors of a possible breakdown in relations between Alpha and Dexcel have caused some turmoil. Customers who already preordered mining units began requesting refunds en masse.
The company says that they are still on schedule to begin shipping units in July. It currently has two different models on its website. They are both called the Viper, and one has 50MH/s of power at 375W for £1,350. A more powerful version of the Viper has 250MH/s of power at 1,875W for £5,450.00.
Source: www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-bbb-warning-alpha-technology-pool-attack
June 15, 2014, 08:43:58 AM
Rather than everyone sh*tting their knickers just complete the finale payment with a credit card once they offer that option in the next two weeks. You then have at least ninety days after payment to file for a full charge back. Plus the fact that AlphaT only initially asked for a 30% deposit how can you say "Oh no we're being BFL'd again". Also the post about Dexcels part of the job being finished when the chips went to the foundry is correct. Dexcel probably removed the AlphaT links after all the panicked emails they were receiving really spooked them. I guess AlphaT are facing some big challenges and are currently holding off saying anything much further until they have a trump card to pull out like fully working chips. Which unless the tape-out went wrong then that announcement should come soon.
June 15, 2014, 07:29:51 AM
Difficulty will go to 100K...
I just looked at the chart, and 100k might not be seen for a few more months. August, I could imagine 500.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty
June 15, 2014, 06:47:03 AM
Difficulty will go to 100K...
June 15, 2014, 02:16:35 AM
Hi to all
Where the hell will connect the 13 chip pcb ? if this board is for others spec previous to the increment on MH per unit.
https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-29032014/
the board on the image need to be re-maked, i think we are on scam wagon.
Where are the pics for the chips PCB ? this need to be ready and waiting chips. easy to take a picture.
Where we enclosure 13 PCB and heatsink ?
And the CE issue ?
who is manufacturing the chips ? and where ? - Globalfoundy not have any news related to alpha chip fabrication!!
If want to put these vital questions in the alpha-t´s forum automatic ban and deletion of the post.
Retro72 i´m with you.
alpha.t are delete the post the don´t want to show to users and not be alarmed. bad behavior to be transparent.
retro72 count with me when all not satisfied customers have to bring legal action against alpha.
The timeline of event´s are well designed, we are paid 30% and they changed the rules ( customer to business ) no full refund. the first customers are out of luck more the 5 moth...
I´m 250M/h CE vapor customer i think.
Where the hell will connect the 13 chip pcb ? if this board is for others spec previous to the increment on MH per unit.
https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-29032014/
the board on the image need to be re-maked, i think we are on scam wagon.
Where are the pics for the chips PCB ? this need to be ready and waiting chips. easy to take a picture.
Where we enclosure 13 PCB and heatsink ?
And the CE issue ?
who is manufacturing the chips ? and where ? - Globalfoundy not have any news related to alpha chip fabrication!!
If want to put these vital questions in the alpha-t´s forum automatic ban and deletion of the post.
Retro72 i´m with you.
alpha.t are delete the post the don´t want to show to users and not be alarmed. bad behavior to be transparent.
retro72 count with me when all not satisfied customers have to bring legal action against alpha.
The timeline of event´s are well designed, we are paid 30% and they changed the rules ( customer to business ) no full refund. the first customers are out of luck more the 5 moth...
I´m 250M/h CE vapor customer i think.
June 14, 2014, 11:51:51 PM
you are likely correct...I am looking at it more from the point if they pull a BFL intentional or otherwise and CAN'T SHIP IN JULY....if it ships end of July and I won't get it till August actual..I will likely get Amex to dump for not getting item according to timeline
that much will likely work
Actually their T&Cs and FAQs state their timeline as Q2/Q3. that much will likely work
"We are currently working hard to ensure that the products will be available for delivery as soon as possible, and hope to have them available for shipping in the second or third quarter of 2014"
Saying they HOPE to ship in July doesn't change anything. They are only bound by the timeline stated in the T&Cs.
So Amex, or any other CC company won't get a penny out of their bank unless they ship in October.
not entirely sure on that the Amex rep said I could refund my $$$ the 30% from Jan in that it has been a bit of time...the logic is (if he is correct)
that I put money down to hold a pre-order...thus it has not shipped thus I could get my $$$ back
that is my assumption w/o actually going thru with it
In other words the 30% down was to "hold a product till it came to pass" and I changed my mind...the company I sent my $$$ to can't hold me to
a product that is a pre-order and just get it out at their leisure...from amex point of view you would get orders for products that would ship way past
their expire date and other games
anyway...it is the only game in town I have ...if I decide to get my refund back will go the amex route first
but from what I can tell you call amex up and you say "I want to refund my 30% down on a product that does not exist yet stated to ship latest 3rd Quarter
of this year on their TOS but I can show that they were shooting for a timeline in July...well ..I have cold feet now on if they can pull such off...and can't
won't wait as their TOS says to 3rd quarter of 2014...can I get that refunded
as far as Amex is concerned..you don't have the product yet you can get a refund ..ie it an't shipped you don't have to pay
now someone with amex or another cc company on here needs to follow through on this and let us know myself still fence sitting I am
(although this may be just to see if they actually offer a cc option as they state or get rejected...the above refund option would be a sure
thing imho if I went to Amex and said I put down on my pre-order 30% down via paypal ..and now they don't take paypal and want the
other 70% via wire xfer only...Amex I very sure would not think that was such a good idea on a product not shipped yet)
anyway we will know when someone pulls the plug on their cc order of 30% and posts it on here..again the stuff I did with amex
was just asking w/o accusing alpha as a scam...simple how do i proceed on this eguip order if i keep or if i try to refund
felt I had to post it on here
but it is up to others to pursue and make their own calls and conclusions with their cc companies
just my experiences on 2 amex customer rep calls
Searing
June 14, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
When is the deadline? It's been changed so many times I don't even know. Leaning against paying the balance at this point. If more people refuse to pay the balance, they will have to either come up with bigger lies or bigger truths (as well as amnesty for delayed payments). Either is preferable to where we're at, with minimal information.
June 14, 2014, 10:16:36 AM
@Searing. Whatever you decide. Good luck mate. I'd hate to see you lose money.
I've been thinking. I assume Alpha never confirmed you or anyone else was a business at the time of purchase. So you are still covered by the UK Distance Selling Regulations unless they can prove otherwise. This means you are entitled to a 100% refund of your deposit if you decide to cancel (not sure if Amex would do this) but you are also entitled to send the unit back for a full refund within 7 working days of receiving it, whether that's in July or any other time..
Something to think about. Anyway mate good luck. I'm off to watch the world cup!! C'MON ENGLAND!!
I've been thinking. I assume Alpha never confirmed you or anyone else was a business at the time of purchase. So you are still covered by the UK Distance Selling Regulations unless they can prove otherwise. This means you are entitled to a 100% refund of your deposit if you decide to cancel (not sure if Amex would do this) but you are also entitled to send the unit back for a full refund within 7 working days of receiving it, whether that's in July or any other time..
Something to think about. Anyway mate good luck. I'm off to watch the world cup!! C'MON ENGLAND!!
And this is another reason that Alpha cannot fall back on the statement that all their customers are business clients. To define a purchaser as a business client you need to have "on record" the tax identification numbers of the client you are dealing with. Alpha doesn't even need to verify that the client they are working with is a business as defined by the government of the country that the business is in.
I run a business and have vendor contracts and I can assure you that they verify and keep on record my tax id number. So if Alpha did not require (not an optional field) a business identification number as provided by the client then they will have a hard time convincing a judge or magistrate that their clients are actually businesses. Alpha is screwed there.
June 14, 2014, 08:57:03 AM
@Searing. Whatever you decide. Good luck mate. I'd hate to see you lose money.
I've been thinking. I assume Alpha never confirmed you or anyone else was a business at the time of purchase. So you are still covered by the UK Distance Selling Regulations unless they can prove otherwise. This means you are entitled to a 100% refund of your deposit if you decide to cancel (not sure if Amex would do this) but you are also entitled to send the unit back for a full refund within 7 working days of receiving it, whether that's in July or any other time..
Something to think about. Anyway mate good luck. I'm off to watch the world cup!! C'MON ENGLAND!!
I've been thinking. I assume Alpha never confirmed you or anyone else was a business at the time of purchase. So you are still covered by the UK Distance Selling Regulations unless they can prove otherwise. This means you are entitled to a 100% refund of your deposit if you decide to cancel (not sure if Amex would do this) but you are also entitled to send the unit back for a full refund within 7 working days of receiving it, whether that's in July or any other time..
Something to think about. Anyway mate good luck. I'm off to watch the world cup!! C'MON ENGLAND!!
June 14, 2014, 08:23:07 AM
June 14, 2014, 06:39:49 AM
again....this probably? means I'm 90% covered...the prev amex post...but w/o actually canceling my Vyper 50mh if so with amex
can't be 100%..encouraging however if i should want to pay the last 70% to www.alpha-t.net....that I have some protection.
just don't want to get BFL'd again for not shipping! (that took 1 year and 20 days to get my $8.5k back!)
but check with your own cc company etc etc...but what I was told w/o 'actually' going thru with refunding my order
Searing
Hey Searing. Thanks for looking into this. Great work. But there are a couple of key questions that still haven't been answered as far as I can see.can't be 100%..encouraging however if i should want to pay the last 70% to www.alpha-t.net....that I have some protection.
just don't want to get BFL'd again for not shipping! (that took 1 year and 20 days to get my $8.5k back!)
but check with your own cc company etc etc...but what I was told w/o 'actually' going thru with refunding my order
Searing
1) Is Amex jointly liable? Joint liability means you get paid directly from Amex. They don't have to chase Alpha's bank. If they are not jointly liable, Amex don't pay you themselves, they ask Alpha's bank for a refund.
This is critical as they bank will only provide refunds if there is money to do so. This means if 100 people pay on their CC. Alpha spends 70% of those funds on Foundry costs, PCB fab, Salaries, enclosure manufacturing etc. Only 30% will be available for refunds. So only 30 people will get paid.
2) What timeline do Amex consider to be binding? The hoped for July delivery Alpha have stated in forum posts and newsletters, or the Q2/Q3 delivery they have laid out in their terms. Alpha have been very careful not to promise a July delivery. Fiaz actually stated a few pages back that July delivery was guaranteed. When I pressed him on this he quickly backpedaled.
This is pretty fundamental, as Alpha will argue only the timeline stated in their T&Cs is binding, so they will not be obliged to consider a refund until October. Don't forget their terms state "available for shipping" Q2/Q3 not "delivered to you" so they have even more wiggle room. (not to mention that little gem brian_23452 found lurking at the bottom of their T&Cs)
Also, as they are trying to use a UK bank (Lloyds Cardnet) if Amex are not jointly liable, you can bet Lloyds will not refund potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds based on internet postings. They will look very closely at the terms and conditions to ascertain whether they have to pay.
All in all, a card is better than a bank transfer but to what extent depends on answers to the above questions. Also don't forget, as Alpha are bound by UK consumer law you can send the unit back within 7 working days it for a FULL 100% refund, if you are not a business. As long as they have the funds to pay that is.
June 14, 2014, 03:13:12 AM
thank you Searing
again....this probably? means I'm 90% covered...the prev amex post...but w/o actually canceling my Vyper 50mh if so with amex
can't be 100%..encouraging however if i should want to pay the last 70% to www.alpha-t.net....that I have some protection.
just don't want to get BFL'd again for not shipping! (that took 1 year and 20 days to get my $8.5k back!)
but check with your own cc company etc etc...but what I was told w/o 'actually' going thru with refunding my order
Searing
June 14, 2014, 01:55:39 AM
thank you Searing
June 14, 2014, 01:18:35 AM
note: long post on cc options with alpha and what my amex customer service people have been telling
me voice..
if you are not interested I warned you ..feel free to skip (or put me on /ignore I won't mind I don't know you anyway!)
onward (see below)
I did NOT post this on www.alpha-t.net forums..figured it would just get deleted (see announcements they just put up
on use of forums) but feel free to link this message over there...that MAY work?
In a previous post I mentioned that if Alpha (in good faith I give them that) allows credit card payment
thru their bank this coming week as they state) and at least with an Amex card (I assume the same would apply with other
cards) If I pay the remaining 70% via credit card (for my protection if they BFL and I DON'T GET my item by Aug 1st (not
when they ship when I get my Item) I've been told by (2) Amex folks that the 70% cc remaining payment..if I chose to
pay..WOULD BE protected by my Amex card and fully refunded all of it (and I again assume other credit cards same) ..
It is up to the merchant to prove they ship'd it in a timely manner..not just say they are gonna and arrival is also considered (like ship on July 21st from wherever in the world I get it in "in hand" Aug/Sept...don't fly)
OK..so odds are good if "I choose" to pay that last 70% via cc option on my Vyper 50mh unit (if alpha does offer such cc next week) and all is "golden' Alpha is on the up and up ships in July etc etc....they did their part I did my part..successful business arrangement done!
Just got off the phone with the 2nd amex person I talked to about this..(see above) .and we went further in the conversation
then just the 'can I get my 70% back if I decide to pay such next week to alpha ...that I asked the 1st amex rep a week or so ago)
I said 'well assuming that they did not ship in time and I could get my 70% back remaining that I paid may pay
this coming week what about the 30% down via paypal (which is past 45 days) what...I paid last jan 5th it was paypal....
I was interrupted at that point ..he offered this I did not ask (was going to) *they rarely interrupt..*
If that is the case he said and you did not get the item in the timeline they mentioned..we would dispute and pay
you back the remaining 70% you paid a month previous and also refund you the 30% down you paid in Jan 2014
IN FULL..if they did not deliver and it is good enough for the 70% remainder disputed to pay back..it holds true for all the money you
sent them ..and you would get the full 100% back in the dispute..if they miss the July shipping deadline..
I then asked what about..this business to business UK stuff where we are not 'consumers' that alpha claims in its
terms (which i should get a copy of by the way heh) ..the amex guy laughed
and said that does not make any difference the Amex protection exists for our consumer users and business users..
was not sure how if you lived in the UK this would work ..did not apply to me (usa)
Again the burden of proof is to ship the item on time....if they 'say' they are gonna ship July 18th and you can show
us it will not get to you by august 1st and/or they have NOT shipped (the old BFL 2 more weeks game) you can also
get refunded...all 1005
well ...imho that means that IF alpha is 'legitimately" trying to get the product out for its customers IT WILL get the
credit card option up next week to pay as they state..and that will go a long way to show they are at least trying
to get stuff out...even if cc option does not favor them if they can't deliver...(former bfl refugee intent goes a long
way with me)
If the credit card option goes away (as their phone not working due to tech difficulties in latest announcement!
)
and they want wire xfer or LTC or BTC only...well...I'm taking my jan 30% refund back and running away!
In other words I then contact Amex and say I can't pay the remainder with credit card as they have stated...I'd like my 30% down payment from Jan 2014 back
and again the Amex guy said that is how it would play out
heh (like the fact paypal 45 day does not apply to amex card payment using paypal)
so contact your Amex card rep or other credit card company before you pay the remaining (or not) 70% down payment
due by credit card next week and/or ask about jan 30% down options
if 'suddenly' Alpha does not have a credit card option for Amex...I guess that will tell us all something and after informing
amex of such ....blam my 30% down payment will get refunded...Amex said they fully understand my want/need to pay by
credit card the last 70% if for some reason I can't I would get my 30% down payment back...that would not look very
'legit' in amex's view....
again I assume Alpha is 'legit' in that they are 'trying' to get us equip..i will hold out for such equip as long as possible
in July as my part of the agreement....
but hey...thats why i used my amex card via paypal last jan 2014 on the 30% down and will pay amex the last 70% this next week (if it is offered) they mess up I'm not gonna hold the bag.. (the hashfast/BFL game show)
feel free to use this message and link it on the www.alpha-t.net customer forums...if
they delete it I guess that tells us something as well
again do your own conversations with your cc companies you paid your 30% down with and I encourage all if they
plan to pay the last 70% to use a cc for their protection after talking to your cc reps to determine options
(actually quite impressed with Amex they seem downright gleeful on going after anyone you have a beef with..must break
up the day or something?
)
anyway hope this helps ...now we wait to see if cc option is offered next week (6/15 to 6/21) as they have stated
that imho would be a very good sign that they are at least 'trying' to fulfill their obligations as they state...
again good luck
Searing
me voice..
if you are not interested I warned you ..feel free to skip (or put me on /ignore I won't mind I don't know you anyway!)
onward (see below)
I did NOT post this on www.alpha-t.net forums..figured it would just get deleted (see announcements they just put up
on use of forums) but feel free to link this message over there...that MAY work?
In a previous post I mentioned that if Alpha (in good faith I give them that) allows credit card payment
thru their bank this coming week as they state) and at least with an Amex card (I assume the same would apply with other
cards) If I pay the remaining 70% via credit card (for my protection if they BFL and I DON'T GET my item by Aug 1st (not
when they ship when I get my Item) I've been told by (2) Amex folks that the 70% cc remaining payment..if I chose to
pay..WOULD BE protected by my Amex card and fully refunded all of it (and I again assume other credit cards same) ..
It is up to the merchant to prove they ship'd it in a timely manner..not just say they are gonna and arrival is also considered (like ship on July 21st from wherever in the world I get it in "in hand" Aug/Sept...don't fly)
OK..so odds are good if "I choose" to pay that last 70% via cc option on my Vyper 50mh unit (if alpha does offer such cc next week) and all is "golden' Alpha is on the up and up ships in July etc etc....they did their part I did my part..successful business arrangement done!
Just got off the phone with the 2nd amex person I talked to about this..(see above) .and we went further in the conversation
then just the 'can I get my 70% back if I decide to pay such next week to alpha ...that I asked the 1st amex rep a week or so ago)
I said 'well assuming that they did not ship in time and I could get my 70% back remaining that I paid may pay
this coming week what about the 30% down via paypal (which is past 45 days) what...I paid last jan 5th it was paypal....
I was interrupted at that point ..he offered this I did not ask (was going to) *they rarely interrupt..*
If that is the case he said and you did not get the item in the timeline they mentioned..we would dispute and pay
you back the remaining 70% you paid a month previous and also refund you the 30% down you paid in Jan 2014
IN FULL..if they did not deliver and it is good enough for the 70% remainder disputed to pay back..it holds true for all the money you
sent them ..and you would get the full 100% back in the dispute..if they miss the July shipping deadline..
I then asked what about..this business to business UK stuff where we are not 'consumers' that alpha claims in its
terms (which i should get a copy of by the way heh) ..the amex guy laughed
and said that does not make any difference the Amex protection exists for our consumer users and business users..
was not sure how if you lived in the UK this would work ..did not apply to me (usa)
Again the burden of proof is to ship the item on time....if they 'say' they are gonna ship July 18th and you can show
us it will not get to you by august 1st and/or they have NOT shipped (the old BFL 2 more weeks game) you can also
get refunded...all 1005
well ...imho that means that IF alpha is 'legitimately" trying to get the product out for its customers IT WILL get the
credit card option up next week to pay as they state..and that will go a long way to show they are at least trying
to get stuff out...even if cc option does not favor them if they can't deliver...(former bfl refugee intent goes a long
way with me)
If the credit card option goes away (as their phone not working due to tech difficulties in latest announcement!
)and they want wire xfer or LTC or BTC only...well...I'm taking my jan 30% refund back and running away!
In other words I then contact Amex and say I can't pay the remainder with credit card as they have stated...I'd like my 30% down payment from Jan 2014 back
and again the Amex guy said that is how it would play out
heh (like the fact paypal 45 day does not apply to amex card payment using paypal)
so contact your Amex card rep or other credit card company before you pay the remaining (or not) 70% down payment
due by credit card next week and/or ask about jan 30% down options
if 'suddenly' Alpha does not have a credit card option for Amex...I guess that will tell us all something and after informing
amex of such ....blam my 30% down payment will get refunded...Amex said they fully understand my want/need to pay by
credit card the last 70% if for some reason I can't I would get my 30% down payment back...that would not look very
'legit' in amex's view....
again I assume Alpha is 'legit' in that they are 'trying' to get us equip..i will hold out for such equip as long as possible
in July as my part of the agreement....
but hey...thats why i used my amex card via paypal last jan 2014 on the 30% down and will pay amex the last 70% this next week (if it is offered) they mess up I'm not gonna hold the bag.. (the hashfast/BFL game show)
feel free to use this message and link it on the www.alpha-t.net customer forums...if
they delete it I guess that tells us something as well
again do your own conversations with your cc companies you paid your 30% down with and I encourage all if they
plan to pay the last 70% to use a cc for their protection after talking to your cc reps to determine options
(actually quite impressed with Amex they seem downright gleeful on going after anyone you have a beef with..must break
up the day or something?
)anyway hope this helps ...now we wait to see if cc option is offered next week (6/15 to 6/21) as they have stated
that imho would be a very good sign that they are at least 'trying' to fulfill their obligations as they state...
again good luck
Searing
June 13, 2014, 10:06:11 PM
you are likely correct...I am looking at it more from the point if they pull a BFL intentional or otherwise and CAN'T SHIP IN JULY....if it ships end of July and I won't get it till August actual..I will likely get Amex to dump for not getting item according to timeline
that much will likely work
Actually their T&Cs and FAQs state their timeline as Q2/Q3. that much will likely work
"We are currently working hard to ensure that the products will be available for delivery as soon as possible, and hope to have them available for shipping in the second or third quarter of 2014"
Saying they HOPE to ship in July doesn't change anything. They are only bound by the timeline stated in the T&Cs.
So Amex, or any other CC company won't get a penny out of their bank unless they ship in October.
This is yet another reason why Ive said from the get go this is a scam. Even if by some miracle of all miracles they manage to get this thing ready in July, they still aren't contractually obligated to actually ship the things. They can, entirely within the terms of the agreement, sit there and mine with them for a few months until they are no longer profitable and then ship them out.
I have been there and trust them, you need to relax, you are getting all wound up with no proper cause, they have said repetedly they will ship earliest 15th July and latest end of July, calling up CAB and Trading Standards and making a lot of premature and unnecessary noise is only going to create issues, and that if anything is going to be the root cause of any hold up, so it will be YOU that will be responsible, if units do not ship on time, stop being so dramatic, and selfish and think about all of the 1000's of other customers that have paid and are happy to wait until end of July before getting nervous.
Take it easy and go and find something else to pass the time whilst Alpha are hard at it to ensure our miners get delivered on time. Stop spreading FUD and stop making waves and causing problems, this is why you have been banned from the forum, no other reason, THE END
Oh, well since you visited them all is well I guess. I guess the illegal attempt to circumvent consumer protection laws with the laughable excuse that you aren't a consumer should just be forgiven?
Anyways, as to what I said about delivery. This is from the contract that you agreed to when you purchased your imaginary product:
"We shall not be liable to you for any loss of profit or for indirect or consequential loss suffered by you whether as a result of any breach of these terms by us or as a result of our negligence."
I didn't just make my claim up. It says it right there in the contract you signed! If they lied to you, it doesn't matter because you signed away their liability. If they finish the units on time, and decide not to ship them on time so they can mine with them instead, too bad, you signed your rights away.
Even then, there is no contractual promise of July. There is no contractual delivery date at all, but to the extent that there is it is as follows"
"We are currently working hard to ensure that the products will be available for delivery as soon as possible, and hope to have them available for shipping in the second or third quarter of 2014"
July is not in the third quarter.
Not sure what your business or legal background is, but as a general rule, companies do not put terms into contracts if they do not plan to enforce the terms when beneficial. There is 0 chance you or anyone else that preordered has one of these things by July, and I will wager any amount of bitcoins with a reputable escrow of your choice on this.
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