Alpha Technology Litecoin (Scrypt) ASIC Miner Order Batch 1 Now! - page 242.

vesperwillow

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

Quote from: Mr.V on January 04, 2014, 07:45:06 PM

Quote from: Revelations86 on January 04, 2014, 03:41:35 PM

I'm not sure if this was asked before. By the time they deliver the units, wouldn't the difficulty rate be at a point which would render the 5mhs or 25mhs you're getting useless?

The asics will not provide and exponential hash rate increase like we've seen with sha-256. In fact GPU's will be able to compete as far as hashing power goes, but the Asic will win on less energy consumption so the electric bill wont be so astronomical.

^-- This is the best reason for these machines. If I can cut down from using 100amps of power and get the same--even more--hashrate.. I'd be super thrilled.

Mr.V

full member

Activity: 182

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Quote from: Revelations86 on January 04, 2014, 03:41:35 PM

I'm not sure if this was asked before. By the time they deliver the units, wouldn't the difficulty rate be at a point which would render the 5mhs or 25mhs you're getting useless?

The asics will not provide and exponential hash rate increase like we've seen with sha-256. In fact GPU's will be able to compete as far as hashing power goes, but the Asic will win on less energy consumption so the electric bill wont be so astronomical.

wilson1973

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

Quote from: Starlightbreaker on January 04, 2014, 07:36:33 PM

Quote from: Its About Sharing on January 04, 2014, 04:24:47 PM

Quote from: Starlightbreaker on January 04, 2014, 04:04:54 PM

there's no product prototyping?

all i see was a fpga unit hashing. I'm not an engineer, but with the experience of butterfly labs, they had FPGA miners out decently okay, but could not made ASICs worth any shit until their 3rd or 4th revision.

This is what their last message stated:

You may note that we had bettered hashing speed per core as compared to last time we published our results in our Prototyping Design Document.

As stated in the following video, our ASIC design POC has not been optimised for any specific FPGA, instead optimised for multi-core scalability with ASIC in mind. That's why it's important we show our core speed and number of cores we are targeting as per the final ASIC chip. Based on this design and global foundries process node, die sizes and the associated costs have been arrived at and we will be going ahead with the fabrication, post final back end verification.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA

....basically no guarantee on what's going to happen.

yeah, good, they can produce fpga, but ASIC is a whole different beast.

i'm calling they're gonna pull a BFL, failed the first two iterations.

The only thing guaranteed in life is death !

Its About Sharing

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1000

Antifragile

Quote from: nightengale on January 04, 2014, 07:28:30 PM

Quote from: ymer on January 04, 2014, 02:55:00 PM

Quote from: kramble on January 04, 2014, 02:51:18 PM

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

The way I see it, the 30% funds the ASIC engineering development. Then the 70% funds the mask set and initial wafer batch (hence the 8-10 weeks which matches an optimistic version of the foundry turnaround time).

The way I see it:

30% of the funds are used for their expenses and manufacturing, this wey they don't have to invest a dime, they will receive the first batches and mine the hell outta them for a few months.
70% Then they receive the rest 70% which is their actual profit, keep mining for a few weeks and then they ship to you when the difficulty is already up and you will just break even a few years later.

LOL at all the idiots that preorder this shit.

The people who preordered the first two batches of Avalon, and the first batch of KnC, are LOL'ing all the way to the bank. You just have to weigh the risk vs. reward, but there's no reason to be a dick about this. If you don't want to participate, then don't. So sick of dealing with all of these pricks whose mommies didn't hug them enough. What is with the impulse to piss in everyone's Cheerios?

LOL with reason and wit - thx for that. Well said.

Starlightbreaker

legendary

Activity: 1764

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Quote from: Its About Sharing on January 04, 2014, 04:24:47 PM

Quote from: Starlightbreaker on January 04, 2014, 04:04:54 PM

there's no product prototyping?

all i see was a fpga unit hashing. I'm not an engineer, but with the experience of butterfly labs, they had FPGA miners out decently okay, but could not made ASICs worth any shit until their 3rd or 4th revision.

This is what their last message stated:

You may note that we had bettered hashing speed per core as compared to last time we published our results in our Prototyping Design Document.

As stated in the following video, our ASIC design POC has not been optimised for any specific FPGA, instead optimised for multi-core scalability with ASIC in mind. That's why it's important we show our core speed and number of cores we are targeting as per the final ASIC chip. Based on this design and global foundries process node, die sizes and the associated costs have been arrived at and we will be going ahead with the fabrication, post final back end verification.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA

....basically no guarantee on what's going to happen.

yeah, good, they can produce fpga, but ASIC is a whole different beast.

i'm calling they're gonna pull a BFL, failed the first two iterations.

wilson1973

member

Activity: 107

Merit: 10

Quote from: nightengale on January 04, 2014, 07:28:30 PM

Quote from: ymer on January 04, 2014, 02:55:00 PM

Quote from: kramble on January 04, 2014, 02:51:18 PM

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

The way I see it, the 30% funds the ASIC engineering development. Then the 70% funds the mask set and initial wafer batch (hence the 8-10 weeks which matches an optimistic version of the foundry turnaround time).

The way I see it:

30% of the funds are used for their expenses and manufacturing, this wey they don't have to invest a dime, they will receive the first batches and mine the hell outta them for a few months.
70% Then they receive the rest 70% which is their actual profit, keep mining for a few weeks and then they ship to you when the difficulty is already up and you will just break even a few years later.

LOL at all the idiots that preorder this shit.

The people who preordered the first two batches of Avalon, and the first batch of KnC, are LOL'ing all the way to the bank. You just have to weigh the risk vs. reward, but there's no reason to be a dick about this. If you don't want to participate, then don't. So sick of dealing with all of these pricks whose mommies didn't hug them enough. What is with the impulse to piss in everyone's Cheerios?

+1

nightengale

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: ymer on January 04, 2014, 02:55:00 PM

Quote from: kramble on January 04, 2014, 02:51:18 PM

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

The way I see it, the 30% funds the ASIC engineering development. Then the 70% funds the mask set and initial wafer batch (hence the 8-10 weeks which matches an optimistic version of the foundry turnaround time).

The way I see it:

30% of the funds are used for their expenses and manufacturing, this wey they don't have to invest a dime, they will receive the first batches and mine the hell outta them for a few months.
70% Then they receive the rest 70% which is their actual profit, keep mining for a few weeks and then they ship to you when the difficulty is already up and you will just break even a few years later.

LOL at all the idiots that preorder this shit.

The people who preordered the first two batches of Avalon, and the first batch of KnC, are LOL'ing all the way to the bank. You just have to weigh the risk vs. reward, but there's no reason to be a dick about this. If you don't want to participate, then don't. So sick of dealing with all of these pricks whose mommies didn't hug them enough. What is with the impulse to piss in everyone's Cheerios?

vesperwillow

hero member

Activity: 616

Merit: 500

So let's say there's an epic fail, the design fails, something fails and in the end, the customers will not receive their products.

What protection is there for the preorder folks? Refunds, etc.

KNC was an existing team of established engineers, working with heavyweight industry partners who are also well established. Kinda like to know where the preorder money is going and, more than a youtube video, what reliability and fallback there is.

Also, are there any guarantees of delivery in the timeframe allotted? Perhaps if there's a delay, you will ship additional mining equipment to the batch 1 folks?

Its About Sharing

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1000

Antifragile

Quote from: Starlightbreaker on January 04, 2014, 04:04:54 PM

there's no product prototyping?

all i see was a fpga unit hashing. I'm not an engineer, but with the experience of butterfly labs, they had FPGA miners out decently okay, but could not made ASICs worth any shit until their 3rd or 4th revision.

This is what their last message stated:

You may note that we had bettered hashing speed per core as compared to last time we published our results in our Prototyping Design Document.

As stated in the following video, our ASIC design POC has not been optimised for any specific FPGA, instead optimised for multi-core scalability with ASIC in mind. That's why it's important we show our core speed and number of cores we are targeting as per the final ASIC chip. Based on this design and global foundries process node, die sizes and the associated costs have been arrived at and we will be going ahead with the fabrication, post final back end verification.

Video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69P2RHG2pIA

Starlightbreaker

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1006

there's no product prototyping?

all i see was a fpga unit hashing. I'm not an engineer, but with the experience of butterfly labs, they had FPGA miners out decently okay, but could not made ASICs worth any shit until their 3rd or 4th revision.

Its About Sharing

legendary

Activity: 1442

Merit: 1000

Antifragile

Quote from: Revelations86 on January 04, 2014, 03:41:35 PM

I'm not sure if this was asked before. By the time they deliver the units, wouldn't the difficulty rate be at a point which would render the 5mhs or 25mhs you're getting useless?

Near impossible if you consider there are no ASICs now. Look at the difficulty level of LTC, it has actually been leveling (not that I expect that to remain). More of a steady growth.
The LARGEST growth we saw with BTC was right when the ASIC's came online. I really think we will see that happen again, with LTC.

Not that I am pro ASIC, even though I have one on order, but here in Germany the costs of electricity for a regular LTC rig are over half the LTC you could mine. Just not efficient.
These ASICs do not give the HUGE advantages over GPU's that BTC saw, but you are looking at 1/2 the price and 1/20th the energy compared to Video Cards. A no brainer considering my location.
Not to make money, but as usual to break even and for the hobby aspect.

Revelations86

sr. member

Activity: 428

Merit: 252

I'm not sure if this was asked before. By the time they deliver the units, wouldn't the difficulty rate be at a point which would render the 5mhs or 25mhs you're getting useless?

LiteCoinGuy

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1014

In Satoshi I Trust

lets give them a chance. they cant be worse than BF Tongue

Haze

full member

Activity: 149

Merit: 100

Yeah, I'll wait until a product ships and a 20nm batch 2 comes out.

kramble

sr. member

Activity: 384

Merit: 250

Quote from: ymer on January 04, 2014, 02:55:00 PM

30% of the funds are used for their expenses and manufacturing, this wey they don't have to invest a dime, they will receive the first batches and mine the hell outta them for a few months.
70% Then they receive the rest 70% which is their actual profit, keep mining for a few weeks and then they ship to you when the difficulty is already up and you will just break even a few years later.

I think you're underestimating the cost of ASIC development on a 28nm process. I made a rough guess at $5million (including mask set and fabrication of the initial batch of chip). It could be much more than this (but I don't expect Alpha-T to come clean with their actual cost estimates).

Nucivar

full member

Activity: 173

Merit: 100

Quote from: ymer on January 04, 2014, 02:55:00 PM

Quote from: kramble on January 04, 2014, 02:51:18 PM

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

The way I see it, the 30% funds the ASIC engineering development. Then the 70% funds the mask set and initial wafer batch (hence the 8-10 weeks which matches an optimistic version of the foundry turnaround time).

The way I see it:

30% of the funds are used for their expenses and manufacturing, this wey they don't have to invest a dime, they will receive the first batches and mine the hell outta them for a few months.
70% Then they receive the rest 70% which is their actual profit, keep mining for a few weeks and then they ship to you when the difficulty is already up and you will just break even a few years later.

LOL at all the idiots that preorder this shit.

+1

ymer

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: kramble on January 04, 2014, 02:51:18 PM

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

The way I see it, the 30% funds the ASIC engineering development. Then the 70% funds the mask set and initial wafer batch (hence the 8-10 weeks which matches an optimistic version of the foundry turnaround time).

The way I see it:

30% of the funds are used for their expenses and manufacturing, this wey they don't have to invest a dime, they will receive the first batches and mine the hell outta them for a few months.
70% Then they receive the rest 70% which is their actual profit, keep mining for a few weeks and then they ship to you when the difficulty is already up and you will just break even a few years later.

LOL at all the idiots that preorder this shit.

kramble

sr. member

Activity: 384

Merit: 250

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

The way I see it, the 30% funds the ASIC engineering development. Then the 70% funds the mask set and initial wafer batch (hence the 8-10 weeks which matches an optimistic version of the foundry turnaround time).

ymer

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: wickedgoodtrader on January 04, 2014, 02:34:41 PM

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

Hey, talking sense is not allowed in this forum.

wickedgoodtrader

full member

Activity: 220

Merit: 100

Their whole "30%" down deal is BS. WTF is it good for if you still have to put 70% down 8-10 weeks before shipment? YOU STILL HAVE TO PUT 100% DOWN WAY BEFORE YOU EVER SEE ANY PRODUCT!

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