America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000 - page 12.

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: americanpegasus on October 24, 2015, 07:23:03 AM

Second, there will come a point where those interest payments are unsusbstainable and we are forced to create massive amounts of new debt to repay interest on old debt (already happening to some degree).

That depends if the rate of growth proceeds at the rate it does, and also depends on the rate of economic growth in the US and worldwide, as well as the rate of inflation. There are lots of variables here and it is unwise to just label it as unsustainable. If it continued exponentially growing, yes, but that's not necessarily going to happen. I mean, there was a worldwide recession.

americanpegasus

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Quote from: DiamondCardz on October 24, 2015, 07:01:03 AM

Quote from: dothebeats on October 24, 2015, 06:45:51 AM

If shit hits the fan, I don't know what the US would do. If China ask US to pay, I can only think of one thing: war. That's a pretty big sum. I wonder how the US kept its power with such huge debt.

I doubt China is going to ask the US to repay. They are paying the interest payments, so that's generally good enough - interest payments are a veeeeery large expense of national governments.

First of all, it's an illustration as to how big that amount is. I didn't say it was a practical method of government. It also shows just how rich an individual would have to be, to be the worlds first trillionaire.

Second, there will come a point where those interest payments are unsusbstainable and we are forced to create massive amounts of new debt to repay interest on old debt (already happening to some degree).

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 24, 2015, 06:45:51 AM

If shit hits the fan, I don't know what the US would do. If China ask US to pay, I can only think of one thing: war. That's a pretty big sum. I wonder how the US kept its power with such huge debt.

I doubt China is going to ask the US to repay. They are paying the interest payments, so that's generally good enough - interest payments are a veeeeery large expense of national governments.

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: americanpegasus on October 24, 2015, 06:27:17 AM

I think it also bears remembering just unbelievably massive a trillion dollars actually is.

First of all, a billion dollars is massive. It's ridiculous. If you had a billion dollars you could live lavishly every day of your life, for the rest of your life, with no compromises in luxury at all (private jets, the finest dinners, the nicest cars, vacations, etc).

With a trillion dollars, you would have to spend about 50 to 80 million dollars a day to have any chance to spend it all in the course of a human lifetime.

Can you imagine the good you could do, not only for yourself but also for others, with just a lump sum of 50 million? Now imagine being told you need to spend that much a day, every day, for the rest of your life.

That's a trillion dollars.

What kind of logic is that? The US has over 300 million people in it, there's a point where anarcho-capitalism becomes ridiculous. And then you have expenses like the army and other things. You're comparing the effect of 1 billion dollars on a single person to the US with over 300 million people and trying to use it to justify how big a trillion dollars is.

Jesus dude.

isvicre

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China will most likely ask for this debt in some future. World may look for new war.
Seems scary but I don't trust USA to win this time. Even Euro may not care for USA this time.

x13

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Things are called shit for a reason, dear.

Same procedure as every two years Cool

I am wondering why the congress does not set the debt ceiling at $50 billion instead of increasing the limit every two years.

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

If shit hits the fan, I don't know what the US would do. If China ask US to pay, I can only think of one thing: war. That's a pretty big sum. I wonder how the US kept its power with such huge debt.

americanpegasus

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I think it also bears remembering just unbelievably massive a trillion dollars actually is.

First of all, a billion dollars is massive. It's ridiculous. If you had a billion dollars you could live lavishly every day of your life, for the rest of your life, with no compromises in luxury at all (private jets, the finest dinners, the nicest cars, vacations, etc).

With a trillion dollars, you would have to spend about 50 to 80 million dollars a day to have any chance to spend it all in the course of a human lifetime.

Can you imagine the good you could do, not only for yourself but also for others, with just a lump sum of 50 million? Now imagine being told you need to spend that much a day, every day, for the rest of your life.

That's a trillion dollars.

DiamondCardz

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Quote from: americanpegasus on October 23, 2015, 03:54:41 PM

Can anyone extend this graph out? At this insane exponential (possibly exponential²) growth

I doubt it'll continue like that, most world governments are making moves to reduce the budget deficit as it is (the UK is supposed to have a balanced budget by 2020) and countries like China & Germany still have vast amounts of money they can lend out. And either way, even if a country goes bankrupt, I doubt it'll cause "global collapse" like most people think.

1Referee

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Quote from: Amph on October 24, 2015, 03:10:55 AM

i'm still wondering one thing and only one, why this shit is not sinked already?

how can they sustain this ridiculous farse with that debt, and keep going like nothing is in trouble

They will simply continue with stretching out everything as long as possible. As long as they do that, there won't be anything that will happen. In 10 years from now we'll ask ourself the same question. How can this continue for such a long time without a total collapse?

Denker

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Quote from: RustyNomad on October 23, 2015, 04:14:33 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on October 23, 2015, 03:54:41 PM

Quote from: markj113 on October 23, 2015, 03:31:41 PM

America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000 (thats in the trillions if you were not sure)

Thats $60,000 debt for every man, woman and child in the country.

Ticking timebomb waiting to blow, keeping the gold nicely polished waiting for the day

Can anyone extend this graph out? At this insane exponential (possibly exponential²) growth, when will we hit a debt ceiling of 1 quadrillion? I think it will happen much sooner than we expect, possibly as soon as 2030 at the current rate of growth.

Doubt it will go that high, its already way past the unsustainable point as is. Also seriously doubt whether most of that debt will ever be paid back. The central banks bargain on the economy growing itself out of the debt but cannot see that happening. Not sure how they are going to get it sorted out, all I know is that something big is on its way and it ain't going to be a picnic.

Also, don't forget about Europe, Draghi is trying his level best to catch up on his own chart, don't like being left behind.

Here a nice comparison between the two.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Denker on October 24, 2015, 04:27:29 AM

Wow what a graph.This is what I call exponential growth!
Scary as hell. Shocked

Wait till 2017, when Hillary will launch her invasion of Iran and DPRK. You will be having a logarithmic graph, and the total debt will cross the $100 trillion mark by 2020. Well, that is.. if the US Dollar still remains as the reserve currency of the world.

Denker

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Wow what a graph.This is what I call exponential growth!
Scary as hell. Shocked

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: Possum577 on October 23, 2015, 04:49:42 PM

Quote from: Mickeyb on October 23, 2015, 04:17:15 PM

Goodness gracious where is this headed to?? When this blows up we will be all screwed, the whole world.

I am so happy that I got into Bitcoin!

I've been thinking about that a lot - where is this heading to? Can it really explode?

I'm no economics expert but here's my take...

How much of this debt is owed to America vs. other countries or entities? The debt owed to other countries or entities is real. Those groups can knock on America's door and say "pay up" and America would have to comply. The debt to America is internal...like borrowing money from a family member. The payoff requirement is more blurry.

I wonder what real discussions are had at the highest levels of government about what to do if the debt cycle implodes "on my watch"... America isn't the only country with soaring debt.

All this talk makes me want to go pay down some debt!

It's not all internal. I know that Chinese own hell of a lot of the US debt. Maybe someone can share how much this is in numbers.

Ad I understand, this is still going on because dollar is the world currency. Over 78% of world reserves are in dollars. But if people would knock on US door and asked for their money, Chinese for example, the US wouldn't be able to pay. In this case, I guess the war and the reset of the system would be only viable option.

Ibian

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There can be only three possible outcomes, or some combination.

Officially declare bankruptcy.
Hyperinflation.
A war on a scale that makes little things like numbers meaningless.

That's it. There are no other options for clearing the debt. The US is going to lose its financial lead on the world stage and there is not enough money in the world to prevent it at this point.

It's just as bad in europe. We can't even pay for our own people and then we got massive amounts of immigrants on top of that. The entire western economy is going to collapse and it is going to happen within our lifetimes, possible as soon as within the next 5-10 years. Just a matter of how long they can keep kicking the can.

bryant.coleman

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Had they refrained from invading third world nations, to put their idea of "forced regime change" in to place, the debt would have been much lower. The Iraq invasion alone cost the Americans some $3 trillion. Add in the invasions of Libya, Serbia, Afghanistan.etc and you will find that more than 50% of the debt was created as a result of warfare.

Amph

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i'm still wondering one thing and only one, why this shit is not sinked already?

how can they sustain this ridiculous farse with that debt, and keep going like nothing is in trouble

Q7

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I wonder how high will this thing go before people finally wake up from daydreaming and realizing the truth about the real scenario. Sometimes what I don't understand is that how these things can go up so high and yet things are still not collapsing?

americanpegasus

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Quote from: 7788bitcoin on October 23, 2015, 10:54:15 PM

Ok, let's start a fundraising campaign to receive bitcoin donation to repay the debt.

19600000000000/280 = Only 70 billion bitcoins are needed.

Good news everyone! If we just wait a couple of decades only 400,000 bitcoins will be needed!

7788bitcoin

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Ok, let's start a fundraising campaign to receive bitcoin donation to repay the debt.

19600000000000/280 = Only 70 billion bitcoins are needed.

Topic: America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000 - page 12. (Read 16322 times)