This is one of the reasons why I hate modern currency.
Every dollar that exists is owed to someone.
Topic: America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000 - page 6. (Read 16350 times)
That is a lot of debt, basically the one year income of a High-End Middle class member of society
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
The debt will not be pushed down in any meaningful way. This happened in most countries in the world. Most governments have budget deficit year after year. There is no way they will pay it back. They borrow money from central banks. There is unlimited supply of money from central banks. Governments use inflation to reduce the debt burden.
That is a lot of debt, basically the one year income of a High-End Middle class member of society
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
The debt will not be pushed down in any meaningful way. This happened in most countries in the world. Most governments have budget deficit year after year. There is no way they will pay it back. They borrow money from central banks. There is unlimited supply of money from central banks. Governments use inflation to reduce the debt burden.
So basically it's a game between governments and banks. Where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. When will this game end? And maybe more important question is there a way to end that game?
That is a lot of debt, basically the one year income of a High-End Middle class member of society
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
The debt will not be pushed down in any meaningful way. This happened in most countries in the world. Most governments have budget deficit year after year. There is no way they will pay it back. They borrow money from central banks. There is unlimited supply of money from central banks. Governments use inflation to reduce the debt burden.
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That is a lot of debt, basically the one year income of a High-End Middle class member of society
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
Watching some of the Republican and Democratic Debates the only one that seems to be targeting the Debt Ceiling and lowering all forms of spending including the military machine is Rand Paul.
Either way it will be interesting to see if someone will try to push that debt down.
There is no way Fiat represents he economy as to value.
Eg x trillion added in houseprice, negligible renovations or house building.
In theory it outght to be, in practice is not.
Stupid keynesians argue that the money supply must grow with the economy size, to avoid clogs in the financial sector.
Because they think that if you dont spend every single penny of your savings and don't rely on slavery debt for sudden urgencies, the economy will just not function.
I dont quite grok the politcs of it,
however, debt is sort of immaterial in a fiat system as 0's are free to add.
eg 100
1000
10000000
10000000000000000000000000
etc.
The US can print its way out of anything. (by print I also me issue debt instruments etc)
however, debt is sort of immaterial in a fiat system as 0's are free to add.
eg 100
1000
10000000
10000000000000000000000000
etc.
The US can print its way out of anything. (by print I also me issue debt instruments etc)
Yea but the fiat money is representative of the economy (although not 100% correlation), but it still affects it very much.
The derivative bubble and other ponzi instruments, if the fail, no big deal. But if they start taking the collaterals: confiscate houses, cars, land, etc..
That will mess up the economy + a treasury bond default = no pensions & no welfare.
You underestimate the enormous damage it can cause when it gets defaulted.
There is no way Fiat represents he economy as to value.
Eg x trillion added in houseprice, negligible renovations or house building.
sure the official interest rate looks low, but govs politically cannot move that up so much. They however are into QE and similar in a massive way which is hyper inflation.
Look at the house price increase in alot of countries, it has gone 100% in the last year or two. Where that's extra money coming from, well wages did not go up, so it through money printing via debt instruments such as loans. 99% of people simply do not understand the money printing part of the inflation equation.
Look at the costs of goods and services going up much much more than inflation of 2% or whatever it is.
Look at the house price increase in alot of countries, it has gone 100% in the last year or two. Where that's extra money coming from, well wages did not go up, so it through money printing via debt instruments such as loans. 99% of people simply do not understand the money printing part of the inflation equation.
Look at the costs of goods and services going up much much more than inflation of 2% or whatever it is.
The price of housing has risen a lot in many countries. But the inflation figure reported is very low. That is because house price is not included in the price index, only the maintenance cost is included. So the inflation figure is lower than we feel.
House price can only go up where more money is printed by issue of debt instruments.(where velocity remains the same)
Not hard to prove, it's mathematically certain unless you're taking the unreasonable position that no fraction of a bitcoin will ever be lost after the minting phase of bitcoin is complete. It's already happened, and will continue to happen. Once the last bitcoin is minted, that's not "shrinking money velocity" (that term doesn't even mean anything, but I assume you mean decelerating inflation), that's deflation, which is falling prices (often) caused by a shrinking money supply.
I know that a permalock is possible, I`m not denyit it. And I know that eventually, all bitcoins will be locked (if the lock is irreversible, then probability tells us that in infinity all bitcoin will be locked)
However I`m talking about now, and how can it be definitively proven that an address is really locked or not. It can't.
So the only way to measure this is from the money velocity viewpoint, by looking at the transaction volume daily, and you will see that it will shrink eventually.
Yes, deflation for me is monetary deflation: the supply of money shrinks. (in a keynesian system due to defaults, as the debt is the money itself)
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
Uhh we almost definitely will see monetary deflation where the supply of money shrinks, Bitcoin being a deflationary currency is one of its critical foundations. Monetary deflation isn't as common in real life, if deflation does occur it is usually price deflation just due to a shrink of the economy and heavily reduced consumer spending.
Bitcoin's money supply doesnt shrink, it grows in a logarithmic curve and it stops at 20,999,999,9769 BTC
Only the rate of inflation decreases, that is not =/= to deflation.
Keynesianists like to say that rate of inflation decrease is deflation, when its not. They are not familiar with the terms, and these are PHD economists.
It actually does, beside the inevitable lost of coins by accident (which will always happen statistically) you have to add in the fact that people are actually burning coins to shrink the supply. I've heard some whale stories sending BTC to dead addresses just to make them basically disappear (it's the equivalent of an eternal holder)
This is counter-intuitive. What's the logic here? It seems highly unlikely that any value gains in your holdings will be greater than the value destroyed by 'burning' coins. The same effect could be realized by just keeping control of the coins and never spending them. Either way, the coins are out of the market but control is maintained by the owner, so there is no actual unrecoverable loss of assets. After all, the market doesn't differentiate between coins that are sent to an unrecoverable address and coins that are controllable but never actually spent. Whoever told you this story is either blowing smoke, or a complete idiot.
There will be deflation any time coins are unrecoverable due to lost keys or death of owners who leave no contingency for private keys in their estate planning. Once the last fraction of a bitcoin is minted, there is guaranteed deflation unless you're taking the position that a private key will never be lost under any circumstance. (I personally wouldn't bet on that.)
Hard to measure, and hard to prove, he might burn it for 100 years, and then the grandchildren find the priv key in a secret box, which the owner forgot about.
I`d not say this is deflation. This is shrinking money velocity, the effects are identical, but its not called deflation.
I dont blame you even academic economists dont know the difference.
For it to be deflation, the supply has to really shrink, by protocol. So you would see 21m coins, then 20m, then 19m and so on...
So bitcoin is not in deflation. It just has a shrinking money velocity
Not hard to prove, it's mathematically certain unless you're taking the unreasonable position that no fraction of a bitcoin will ever be lost after the minting phase of bitcoin is complete. It's already happened, and will continue to happen. Once the last bitcoin is minted, that's not "shrinking money velocity" (that term doesn't even mean anything, but I assume you mean decelerating inflation), that's deflation, which is falling prices (often) caused by a shrinking money supply.
It actually does, beside the inevitable lost of coins by accident (which will always happen statistically) you have to add in the fact that people are actually burning coins to shrink the supply. I've heard some whale stories sending BTC to dead addresses just to make them basically disappear (it's the equivalent of an eternal holder)
If I have too many coins, I will just hold it. I will not burn it to reduce the supply. It is my coin, if I burn it, it will just increase the value of other people's coin. The total value of my coin will not rise much after the burning due to the reduced number.
Might want to update the topic title OP.
Zero Hedge has a great article out about how the real debt might be 3x what they are reporting, with no way to stop it from going further.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/us-debt-3-times-more-you-think-former-chief-us-accountant-warns-americans-have-lost-
Debt & usury are for the rabble. Letting it get out of hand = the peasants are at your mercy. Money isn't real, it's stale, mouldy crumbs for pigeon people. You can always just start a world war to wipe clean all social memory of how it all came to pass & 'reset' your system of control. Remember to always give those pigeons a 'dream' to live for after a gorefest though & be super nice to them, telling them how important they are, otherwise they *might* catch on. Zero Hedge has a great article out about how the real debt might be 3x what they are reporting, with no way to stop it from going further.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/us-debt-3-times-more-you-think-former-chief-us-accountant-warns-americans-have-lost-
Might want to update the topic title OP.
Zero Hedge has a great article out about how the real debt might be 3x what they are reporting, with no way to stop it from going further.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/us-debt-3-times-more-you-think-former-chief-us-accountant-warns-americans-have-lost-
Zero Hedge has a great article out about how the real debt might be 3x what they are reporting, with no way to stop it from going further.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-08/us-debt-3-times-more-you-think-former-chief-us-accountant-warns-americans-have-lost-
There will be deflation any time coins are unrecoverable due to lost keys or death of owners who leave no contingency for private keys in their estate planning. Once the last fraction of a bitcoin is minted, there is guaranteed deflation unless you're taking the position that a private key will never be lost under any circumstance. (I personally wouldn't bet on that.)
Hard to measure, and hard to prove, he might burn it for 100 years, and then the grandchildren find the priv key in a secret box, which the owner forgot about.
I`d not say this is deflation. This is shrinking money velocity, the effects are identical, but its not called deflation.
I dont blame you even academic economists dont know the difference.
For it to be deflation, the supply has to really shrink, by protocol. So you would see 21m coins, then 20m, then 19m and so on...
So bitcoin is not in deflation. It just has a shrinking money velocity
Yes, deflation for me is monetary deflation: the supply of money shrinks. (in a keynesian system due to defaults, as the debt is the money itself)
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
Uhh we almost definitely will see monetary deflation where the supply of money shrinks, Bitcoin being a deflationary currency is one of its critical foundations. Monetary deflation isn't as common in real life, if deflation does occur it is usually price deflation just due to a shrink of the economy and heavily reduced consumer spending.
Bitcoin's money supply doesnt shrink, it grows in a logarithmic curve and it stops at 20,999,999,9769 BTC
Only the rate of inflation decreases, that is not =/= to deflation.
Keynesianists like to say that rate of inflation decrease is deflation, when its not. They are not familiar with the terms, and these are PHD economists.
It actually does, beside the inevitable lost of coins by accident (which will always happen statistically) you have to add in the fact that people are actually burning coins to shrink the supply. I've heard some whale stories sending BTC to dead addresses just to make them basically disappear (it's the equivalent of an eternal holder)
Yes, deflation for me is monetary deflation: the supply of money shrinks. (in a keynesian system due to defaults, as the debt is the money itself)
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
Uhh we almost definitely will see monetary deflation where the supply of money shrinks, Bitcoin being a deflationary currency is one of its critical foundations. Monetary deflation isn't as common in real life, if deflation does occur it is usually price deflation just due to a shrink of the economy and heavily reduced consumer spending.
Bitcoin's money supply doesnt shrink, it grows in a logarithmic curve and it stops at 20,999,999,9769 BTC
Only the rate of inflation decreases, that is not =/= to deflation.
Keynesianists like to say that rate of inflation decrease is deflation, when its not. They are not familiar with the terms, and these are PHD economists.
There will be deflation any time coins are unrecoverable due to lost keys or death of owners who leave no contingency for private keys in their estate planning. Once the last fraction of a bitcoin is minted, there is guaranteed deflation unless you're taking the position that a private key will never be lost under any circumstance. (I personally wouldn't bet on that.)
Yes, deflation for me is monetary deflation: the supply of money shrinks. (in a keynesian system due to defaults, as the debt is the money itself)
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
Uhh we almost definitely will see monetary deflation where the supply of money shrinks, Bitcoin being a deflationary currency is one of its critical foundations. Monetary deflation isn't as common in real life, if deflation does occur it is usually price deflation just due to a shrink of the economy and heavily reduced consumer spending.
Bitcoin's money supply doesnt shrink, it grows in a logarithmic curve and it stops at 20,999,999,9769 BTC
Only the rate of inflation decreases, that is not =/= to deflation.
Keynesianists like to say that rate of inflation decrease is deflation, when its not. They are not familiar with the terms, and these are PHD economists.
You're misunderstanding me here. Once all the blocks are mined, we will definitely see a shrink in the money supply, but that is due to the users and things such as coins being destroyed and lost. There's no way for us to get around that. We will definitely have deflation once blocks stop giving BTC rewards.
Shit, how did we spend so much in 2016? I mean, 2017 wasn't exactly a parade either.
It's not you ... or me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY
Yes, deflation for me is monetary deflation: the supply of money shrinks. (in a keynesian system due to defaults, as the debt is the money itself)
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
In bitcoin we wont see that, we will see however price deflation, due to strenghtening: denominated things in bitcoin will shrink in price : both wages & expenditures.
We already see that: as bitcoin price went up, faucets pay out less, but advertising on faucets is also cheaper.
Uhh we almost definitely will see monetary deflation where the supply of money shrinks, Bitcoin being a deflationary currency is one of its critical foundations. Monetary deflation isn't as common in real life, if deflation does occur it is usually price deflation just due to a shrink of the economy and heavily reduced consumer spending.
Bitcoin's money supply doesnt shrink, it grows in a logarithmic curve and it stops at 20,999,999,9769 BTC
Only the rate of inflation decreases, that is not =/= to deflation.
Keynesianists like to say that rate of inflation decrease is deflation, when its not. They are not familiar with the terms, and these are PHD economists.
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