By the way, as we speak about cabbages & kings, BC is slowly but steadily gaining ground in MintPal.
P.S. Just joking about "cabbages & kings". Of course we should also discuss other things than the price.
Topic: [ANN] Blacknet | IBO for BlackCoin | New code | PoS | No ICO - page 1244. (Read 2510350 times)
with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.
I know. I probably shouldn't have said it in this forum, because someone else will do it and become insanely wealthy from it. Hopefully they won't do it stupidly and ruin the idea (anyone who wants to do this should email me first, and build some sims ...has anyone ever built a sim before launching one of these coins??? I do it before launching every new card game or slot machine). For the time being though, BC is as good as it gets from a fundamental perspective; and even if such a coin appeared tomorrow, BC would be a great alternative/carry instrument for it, so they would be complimentary.
A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community like to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).
Correlation !=causation. Can you prove there is causation?MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.
I also believe it is arbitrary. Inflation is my forte, anyway.The only thing that could beat BlackCoin, imho, is a currency that paid interest based on volume transacted, using some algorithm to determine which transactions were truly long-running investments and rewarding those with a higher long-term interest rate (i.e., you start by earning A% per coin per 8 hours, but after a X amount of time determined by the liquidity of the market you top out at B%, some adjustable rate of interest based on an algorithm that determines how tight the money supply should be; holding coins longer than that, it starts to go back down). In the meantime, having a very low fixed rate of interest effectively allows BC to be a carry trade instrument for Mint and other high-yield coins, should prices stabilize after a couple of years. And whatever happens to the other coins, it can remain so.
Adjustable interest rate? Interesting. The strenght of the bitcoin protocol (I am talking about the protocol, not the currency) is that it alllows to know exactly how much money exist at a certain moment, be it in circulation or not. Surely we should take advantage of this - never before in history was this possible. Is there a potential for better equality, for reducing Gini index?. Watch Richard Wilkinson:How economic inequality harms societies in TED. There could be a potential for another coin here, but it would be better if it was a change from an already-dominating coin (like BC moving to dynamic interest rate). We have precedence of a coin changing its fundamental way of working - dogecoin has removed its maximum cap, if I remember well.[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.
Please explain carry trade arbitrage. with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.
I know. I probably shouldn't have said it in this forum, because someone else will do it and become insanely wealthy from it. For the time being though, BC is as good as it gets from a fundamental perspective; and even if such a coin appeared tomorrow, BC would be a great alternative/carry instrument for it, so they would be complimentary.
Fantastic post.
Thank you.I believe the splitting to 8 decimal places solves a lot of the non-zero sum game. Value can continue to increase per unit, so you use smaller and smaller units. Since you can split almost to infinity with computer values, its irrelevant and the value is still retained.
The thing is, that doesn't really solve the problem. It solves the problem of how to denominate it, but it doesn't solve the problem of hoarding. Because as long as you're reducing to smaller decimal places to buy a loaf of bread, for instance, the value of your Bitcoin is worth more and more loaves of bread. As long as value increases per unit of Bitcoin, you have deflation and no one will actually spend the currency. When no one spends it, the economy collapses because merchants like me can't stay in business.As a little side note, I learned something really interesting about economics by opening the first Bitcoin casino... I learned that people gamble when the currency loses value (or in other words, inflates). It may seem obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me at the beginning. I used to be terrified that Bitcoin would go down because our holdings would lose value. But I realized pretty soon that that's exactly when people gamble their coins.
There has never been a global currency that has 1% fixed inflation that cannot be messed with by any government. Bitcoin and Litecoin are good examples however their inflation is still massive, even compared to FIAT. Crypto's power lies in being free from any outside interference from government, why not make it free from inflation as well?
Black-coin is fairly distributed right now but it needs to be more so and more widely distributed. Its not an issue right now and wont be over the next few weeks but everyone should try and get their family an friends along for the ride. Get them started with a wallet with 10 BC to start or whatever amount.
Its time to take this to the next step...
Black-coin is fairly distributed right now but it needs to be more so and more widely distributed. Its not an issue right now and wont be over the next few weeks but everyone should try and get their family an friends along for the ride. Get them started with a wallet with 10 BC to start or whatever amount.
Its time to take this to the next step...
I completely agree with this, and I think that's why BlackCoin is a solid bet to be a complementary store of value to BTC/LTC. I do wish that the interest rate could be tweaked, but to this point no one has set up a coin that tweaks interest rates based on market dynamics (although BC bonds could certainly be issued down the road that would fill that gap). So given where we are now, I think the distribution and the fixed interest rate are as close-to-right as you can ask for.
I don't think you should say '1% fixed inflation' though, because 'inflation' is a measure of the currency's loss in buying power not a measure of how much money supply there is alone. BTC will become deflationary long before it's done being mined... as it is right now, BC is deflationary because it's rising in value faster than it pays interest; therefore most people won't loan it or spend it.
Mint is still a great coin with a good base but Mint is inferior to Black in every way.
In what ways is Blackcoin superior to Mintcoin? I promise that I won't argue with you. I sincerely want to know your opinion.
I promise I'll get to Mintcoin vs. Blackcoin but a preface here:
A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community likes to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).
Well. What this means is that no one with a knowledge of history can discount out of hand the idea that all economies are a non-zero-sum game in which the money supply needs to grow and contract to provide the necessary incentives to save or stimulus to invest. And so anything with a flat rate of interest or inflation is naturally a bit suspect, because human affairs just don't work that way. Shouldn't BC generate more money supply if more business is being done in the currency and people want to borrow it? Shouldn't MintCoin give less interest if it's apparent that its inflation is running out of control?
What we think we know is that Bitcoin itself is too prone to hoarding and too deflationary in nature. Therefore a proof-of-stake seems like a sensible idea, or at least a valuable experiment. The question for me about MintCoin is why that stake should be higher in the beginning. MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.
Is BlackCoin striking the right balance because it will always keep a 1% rate? Probably not exactly. However it's a lot closer to being a long-run fair bet than something that's going to arbitrarily dictate reduced interest rates annually with no regard for how many people adopt it or how they use it.
The only thing that could beat BlackCoin, imho, is a currency that paid interest based on volume transacted, using some algorithm to determine which transactions were truly long-running investments and rewarding those with a higher long-term interest rate (i.e., you start by earning A% per coin per 8 hours, but after a X amount of time determined by the liquidity of the market you top out at B%, some adjustable rate of interest based on an algorithm that determines how tight the money supply should be; holding coins longer than that, it starts to go back down). In the meantime, having a very low fixed rate of interest effectively allows BC to be a carry trade instrument for Mint and other high-yield coins, should prices stabilize after a couple of years. And whatever happens to the other coins, it can remain so.
[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.
A coin with a rate of interest adjusted by the transaction volume is a very nice idea. Maybe, we'll see one eventually. A currency based on the equation of exchange:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_exchange
with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.
Mint is still a great coin with a good base but Mint is inferior to Black in every way.
In what ways is Blackcoin superior to Mintcoin? I promise that I won't argue with you. I sincerely want to know your opinion.
I promise I'll get to Mintcoin vs. Blackcoin but a preface here:
A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community likes to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).
Well. What this means is that no one with a knowledge of history can discount out of hand the idea that all economies are a non-zero-sum game in which the money supply needs to grow and contract to provide the necessary incentives to save or stimulus to invest. And so anything with a flat rate of interest or inflation is naturally a bit suspect, because human affairs just don't work that way. Shouldn't BC generate more money supply if more business is being done in the currency and people want to borrow it? Shouldn't MintCoin give less interest if it's apparent that its inflation is running out of control?
What we think we know is that Bitcoin itself is too prone to hoarding and too deflationary in nature. Therefore a proof-of-stake seems like a sensible idea, or at least a valuable experiment. The question for me about MintCoin is why that stake should be higher in the beginning. MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.
Is BlackCoin striking the right balance because it will always keep a 1% rate? Probably not exactly. However it's a lot closer to being a long-run fair bet than something that's going to arbitrarily dictate reduced interest rates annually with no regard for how many people adopt it or how they use it.
[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.
Fantastic post.
I believe the splitting to 8 decimal places solves a lot of the non-zero sum game. Value can continue to increase per unit, so you use smaller and smaller units. Since you can split almost to infinity with computer values, its irrelevant and the value is still retained.
There has never been a global currency that has 1% fixed inflation that cannot be messed with by any government. Bitcoin and Litecoin are good examples however their inflation is still massive, even compared to FIAT. Crypto's power lies in being free from any outside interference from government, why not make it free from inflation as well?
Black-coin is fairly distributed right now but it needs to be more so and more widely distributed. Its not an issue right now and wont be over the next few weeks but everyone should try and get their family an friends along for the ride. Get them started with a wallet with 10 BC to start or whatever amount.
Its time to take this to the next step...
Your implication was 'Why did hashcows add mint? oh, they must have bribed them.'. My only point is, all you had to do was ask, and I don't appreciate the implication. Last I'll make any mention, as its not worthwhile.
HE said he asked and got no answer.Anyway, let us stop this. It will bing nothing good. We better stand together than tear each other apart.
For the PoS!
...I don't have anything big against Mint this is totally different POS system.
Diffrent parameters diffrent concepts Mint has thier clones.
There were offcourse clone of BC like DynamicCoin but it forked few times during first night BC Dev called it "Black magic" ^^.
There is many POS coins around Mint and BC just connect similar time when were released but they are different concepts...
Let guys Mint live and not to troll them whiteout any reason.
But when some come here and want put shit on my BC i will defend it...
I don't like when someone come here and saying same bullshit across all threads "scam" "pump and dump" or "hahaha XXXX coins is dead"...
Edit: imo alot of people don't like the idea of billions and billions of coins
I believe this is more a matter of distribution. More coins means more potential for widespread adoption. I mean, if there are 100 000 people on the altcoin scene, that's the maximum. Compare with 7 billions (soon 9) inhabitant on this planet.I agree with this fully, would I rather have a high value, low total number coin in the hands of a few, or a lower valued, high total number coin in the hands of the masses? I use the analogy of the American Gold Eagle coin versus the American dollar as my point. Which is used as the everyday currency? That's because it's in the hands of everybody and if the masses were to have a coin in their hands, this be the incentive for retailers, service providers and even workers to be paid in a digital currency. I was a BC miner and am still a BC holder and mining on the BlackCoin Pool beta, but my home coin is Nutcoin, and right now we are still very much in a distribution phase of the coin, it's been out for just under 3 months now and thankfully we've been flying low which is allowing for easy mining and a wider distribution of the coin before the whales take notice and try to grind it into the dirt. The wider the distribution of the coin, the harder it will be to manipulate the price and for the big holders to manufacture pump and dumps like we've been seeing with BC these past few days so the big boys can buy the coins the panic sellers are dumping at the bottom of the dumps at bargain prices. Hold your coins.
You are ignoring the other points made in this thread about this.
I fully understand dividing coins into 8 decimal places, but what I believe I'm seeing take place right now is the concentration of BlackCoin into too few hands. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll all get rich from BlackCoin, but I don't know that working from the scarcity principal is the only way to go. How when people are gobbling up BlackCoins as fast as we can do we at the same time distribute them to the masses for commercial use?
You are putting the cart before the horse. This is apart of the process, as the value raises people with large amounts will dump some to get returns on their investments and will distribute the coins. The increased price will also bring in more multipool miners.
Edit: imo alot of people don't like the idea of billions and billions of coins
I believe this is more a matter of distribution. More coins means more potential for widespread adoption. I mean, if there are 100 000 people on the altcoin scene, that's the maximum. Compare with 7 billions (soon 9) inhabitant on this planet.I agree with this fully, would I rather have a high value, low total number coin in the hands of a few, or a lower valued, high total number coin in the hands of the masses? I use the analogy of the American Gold Eagle coin versus the American dollar as my point. Which is used as the everyday currency? That's because it's in the hands of everybody and if the masses were to have a coin in their hands, this be the incentive for retailers, service providers and even workers to be paid in a digital currency. I was a BC miner and am still a BC holder and mining on the BlackCoin Pool beta, but my home coin is Nutcoin, and right now we are still very much in a distribution phase of the coin, it's been out for just under 3 months now and thankfully we've been flying low which is allowing for easy mining and a wider distribution of the coin before the whales take notice and try to grind it into the dirt. The wider the distribution of the coin, the harder it will be to manipulate the price and for the big holders to manufacture pump and dumps like we've been seeing with BC these past few days so the big boys can buy the coins the panic sellers are dumping at the bottom of the dumps at bargain prices. Hold your coins.
You are ignoring the other points made in this thread about this.
I fully understand dividing coins into 8 decimal places, but what I believe I'm seeing take place right now is the concentration of BlackCoin into too few hands. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll all get rich from BlackCoin, but I don't know that working from the scarcity principal is the only way to go. How when people are gobbling up BlackCoins as fast as we can do we at the same time distribute them to the masses for commercial use?
Mint is still a great coin with a good base but Mint is inferior to Black in every way.
In what ways is Blackcoin superior to Mintcoin? I promise that I won't argue with you. I sincerely want to know your opinion.
I promise I'll get to Mintcoin vs. Blackcoin but a preface here:
A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community like to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).
Well. What this means is that no one with a knowledge of history can discount out of hand the idea that all economies are a non-zero-sum game in which the money supply needs to grow and contract to provide the necessary incentives to save or stimulus to invest. And so anything with a flat rate of interest or inflation is naturally a bit suspect, because human affairs just don't work that way. Shouldn't BC generate more money supply if more business is being done in the currency and people want to borrow it? Shouldn't MintCoin give less interest if it's apparent that its inflation is running out of control?
What we think we know is that Bitcoin itself is too prone to hoarding and too deflationary in nature. Therefore a proof-of-stake seems like a sensible idea, or at least a valuable experiment. The question for me about MintCoin is why that stake should be higher in the beginning. MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.
Is BlackCoin striking the right balance because it will always keep a 1% rate? Probably not exactly. However it's a lot closer to being a long-run fair bet than something that's going to arbitrarily dictate reduced interest rates annually with no regard for how many people adopt it or how they use it.
The only thing that could beat BlackCoin, imho, is a currency that paid interest based on volume transacted, using some algorithm to determine which transactions were truly long-running investments and rewarding those with a higher long-term interest rate (i.e., you start by earning A% per coin per 8 hours, but after a X amount of time determined by the liquidity of the market you top out at B%, some adjustable rate of interest based on an algorithm that determines how tight the money supply should be; holding coins longer than that, it starts to go back down). In the meantime, having a very low fixed rate of interest effectively allows BC to be a carry trade instrument for Mint and other high-yield coins, should prices stabilize after a couple of years. And whatever happens to the other coins, it can remain so.
[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.
BC will soon be past any of this nonsense. Onwards !
Really doesn't matter if you are for or against, the market has spoken. BC has a larger market cap and greater volume, we are likely going to continue to grow bigger which will draw in more multipool miners.
David Latapie -- the fifth musketeer. 
You can't realise how true it is: I'm native from the same region as d'Artagnan (Gascogne)For the PoS!
David Latapie -- the fifth musketeer.
I have nothing against Mintcoin but it just feels overpriced to me even at its bottom, for the same price I can buy a bigger stake of the total BC coin cap than I can MINT. Granted MINT does have the 20% interest but still, with BC taking off it made more economic sense to me to invest in BC.
Your implication was 'Why did hashcows add mint? oh, they must have bribed them.'. My only point is, all you had to do was ask, and I don't appreciate the implication. Last I'll make any mention, as its not worthwhile.
HE said he asked and got no answer.Anyway, let us stop this. It will bing nothing good. We better stand together than tear each other apart.
For the PoS!
So as you say, 'its rate people do anything for free'...if the MINT crew paid me a bounty to add their coin, why would you consider such a payment a bribe, vs. paying for the work required to make it happen? Its not like I had this feature ready to go and said 'pay me X coins to get yourself listed'.
I thought of BC as I was building this feature, I was in at launch, I've been idling in the irc channel since launch, have made some profits on personal trades with it. Quickly losing interest in it though with such silliness. oh well.
Business is business, coins want to be listed and added to pools and they pay in what they have. Bribe/payment/bounty, no reason to get caught in the silliness yourself.
BC will rub people the wrong way as that is the nature of this coin as it does not confirm to the "normal". BC can't be changed or stopped on any silliness or drama in forum threads.
Your implication was 'Why did hashcows add mint? oh, they must have bribed them.'. My only point is, all you had to do was ask, and I don't appreciate the implication. Last I'll make any mention, as its not worthwhile.
Happy Mining.
Edit: imo alot of people don't like the idea of billions and billions of coins
I believe this is more a matter of distribution. More coins means more potential for widespread adoption. I mean, if there are 100 000 people on the altcoin scene, that's the maximum. Compare with 7 billions (soon 9) inhabitant on this planet.I agree with this fully, would I rather have a high value, low total number coin in the hands of a few, or a lower valued, high total number coin in the hands of the masses? I use the analogy of the American Gold Eagle coin versus the American dollar as my point. Which is used as the everyday currency? That's because it's in the hands of everybody and if the masses were to have a coin in their hands, this be the incentive for retailers, service providers and even workers to be paid in a digital currency. I was a BC miner and am still a BC holder and mining on the BlackCoin Pool beta, but my home coin is Nutcoin, and right now we are still very much in a distribution phase of the coin, it's been out for just under 3 months now and thankfully we've been flying low which is allowing for easy mining and a wider distribution of the coin before the whales take notice and try to grind it into the dirt. The wider the distribution of the coin, the harder it will be to manipulate the price and for the big holders to manufacture pump and dumps like we've been seeing with BC these past few days so the big boys can buy the coins the panic sellers are dumping at the bottom of the dumps at bargain prices. Hold your coins.
What the hell is Nutcoin?
Either way, BC and MINT can both succeed. All they have to rip ideas of each other as we go and we can both become the BTC and LTC of the PoS market. 
I have exactly this idea. Look for "project F" on mintcoin thread and you will have a teasing of what I am thinking about at the moment (hint: this is a bit different that what mintcoin holders think, I will announce it there later on). Jump to: