Topic: [ANN] Blacknet | IBO for BlackCoin | New code | PoS | No ICO - page 1577. (Read 2509925 times)
February 28, 2014, 05:41:39 PM
Seems like its gonna drop to 100 sat by tomorrow morning
February 28, 2014, 05:41:27 PM
can someone simply explain this dump rate? just why so low?
initial distribution by short-term PoW miners. Same thing happened with Mintcoin. First week it sat low at 4-8 satoshis then exploded to 50 satoshis. No worries the PoW mining period for BC will end soon.
Yeah but the difference is that almost no one knows about Blackcoin outside of this thread.
February 28, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
Thank you for your response...the comments
" The period they will actually stake is random, but irrelevant because the reward uses coin age. But the incentive to keep your wallet open and generating POS (and therefore securing the network and moving transactions) is that the more frequent they stake, though you get a smaller reward in each interval, the interest will be compounded more often. "
makes things a whole lot clearer. Basically coins become eligible for stake. By random they will actually stake. (However the age of ALL coins are always kept on record.) They go into stake section. The stake amount then is eligible for interest at 1% pa. After maturing they are removed from stake section and placed back in your balance. You continue to collect interest on those coins[and any others now over 8hrs old at 1%pa. Eventually all of your eligible balance will stake so that you can started to be PAID OUT interest on them. IMPORTANT: Even if they dont stake quickly a record of coin age is kept so that the correct interest can be paid out at stake time. Of course the effect becomes compounded over time especially if you 1) Keep your wallet open 2) Stake often[somewhat due to luck] i.e if you stake often then more interest is paid on interest[compounded effect]
Again, It is important to note that interest is calculated based on the age of your coins so even if you only stake once a year then you would only truly receive 1% pa. Interest only starts to be actually paid out when you stake, though you will be paid out on said interest for every coin held over 8hrs . However if you stake 1/wk the compounding effect could be significant.
I think I finally get it. Like I said the compounding is the easy part but the procedures involved in POS interest payments are overly complicated for a newbie. Even some Wall Street derivatives have easier payment mechanisms
p.s
I am expecting A steep price rise ala AURcoin as soon as we hit block 9500
quote author=artiface link=topic=469640.msg5433540#msg5433540 date=1393619862]
From the source:
int64 nSubsidy = nCoinAge * COIN_YEAR_REWARD * 33 / (365 * 33 + 8 );
nCoinAge is days. For the age of your coin you get 1% * coinage / days in a year.
So to put in numbers.
You have 100,000 coins that are all 8 hours old and generate a stake. You get 100000 * .01 * .33 / 365 = 0.904109.
You now have 100000.904109
Next time you wait 5 days before you generate a stake.
100000.904109 * .01 * 5 / 365 = 13.69875
Now you have 100014.602859
Next time you wait 90 days
100014.602859 * .01 * 90 / 365 = 246 .611348
Now you have 100261.214207
Next time you wait the rest of the year
100261.214207 * 0.01 * 269.66 /365 = 740.724356
Now you have 101001.938563
Or just a bit over 1% annually.
This will always come out to a bit over 1% annually because the coin age continues to grow until the coins stake. The period they will actually stake is random, but irrelevant because the reward uses coin age. But the incentive to keep your wallet open and generating POS (and therefore securing the network and moving transactions) is that the more frequent they stake, though you get a smaller reward in each interval, the interest will be compounded more often.
[/quote]
" The period they will actually stake is random, but irrelevant because the reward uses coin age. But the incentive to keep your wallet open and generating POS (and therefore securing the network and moving transactions) is that the more frequent they stake, though you get a smaller reward in each interval, the interest will be compounded more often. "
makes things a whole lot clearer. Basically coins become eligible for stake. By random they will actually stake. (However the age of ALL coins are always kept on record.) They go into stake section. The stake amount then is eligible for interest at 1% pa. After maturing they are removed from stake section and placed back in your balance. You continue to collect interest on those coins[and any others now over 8hrs old at 1%pa. Eventually all of your eligible balance will stake so that you can started to be PAID OUT interest on them. IMPORTANT: Even if they dont stake quickly a record of coin age is kept so that the correct interest can be paid out at stake time. Of course the effect becomes compounded over time especially if you 1) Keep your wallet open 2) Stake often[somewhat due to luck] i.e if you stake often then more interest is paid on interest[compounded effect]
Again, It is important to note that interest is calculated based on the age of your coins so even if you only stake once a year then you would only truly receive 1% pa. Interest only starts to be actually paid out when you stake, though you will be paid out on said interest for every coin held over 8hrs . However if you stake 1/wk the compounding effect could be significant.
I think I finally get it. Like I said the compounding is the easy part but the procedures involved in POS interest payments are overly complicated for a newbie. Even some Wall Street derivatives have easier payment mechanisms
p.s
I am expecting A steep price rise ala AURcoin as soon as we hit block 9500
quote author=artiface link=topic=469640.msg5433540#msg5433540 date=1393619862]
Compound interest is the easy part. Lets see if some one can explain using a practical numerical example.
1) I have a 100,000 BC balance
2) I am lucky[ fulfilling the 8hrs, unlocked reqmt, etc] and get a stake of 10,000 BC
To keep thing,s simple I get no further stake for weeks.
Explain using said numbers what happens to that 10000 BC incl. interest collected, over the period of the stake. Is the period of the stake random as well ?
to get you started 1% pa of 10000 BC is 100 BC per year or 0.28 BC/day in interest.
1) I have a 100,000 BC balance
2) I am lucky[ fulfilling the 8hrs, unlocked reqmt, etc] and get a stake of 10,000 BC
To keep thing,s simple I get no further stake for weeks.
Explain using said numbers what happens to that 10000 BC incl. interest collected, over the period of the stake. Is the period of the stake random as well ?
to get you started 1% pa of 10000 BC is 100 BC per year or 0.28 BC/day in interest.
From the source:
int64 nSubsidy = nCoinAge * COIN_YEAR_REWARD * 33 / (365 * 33 + 8 );
nCoinAge is days. For the age of your coin you get 1% * coinage / days in a year.
So to put in numbers.
You have 100,000 coins that are all 8 hours old and generate a stake. You get 100000 * .01 * .33 / 365 = 0.904109.
You now have 100000.904109
Next time you wait 5 days before you generate a stake.
100000.904109 * .01 * 5 / 365 = 13.69875
Now you have 100014.602859
Next time you wait 90 days
100014.602859 * .01 * 90 / 365 = 246 .611348
Now you have 100261.214207
Next time you wait the rest of the year
100261.214207 * 0.01 * 269.66 /365 = 740.724356
Now you have 101001.938563
Or just a bit over 1% annually.
This will always come out to a bit over 1% annually because the coin age continues to grow until the coins stake. The period they will actually stake is random, but irrelevant because the reward uses coin age. But the incentive to keep your wallet open and generating POS (and therefore securing the network and moving transactions) is that the more frequent they stake, though you get a smaller reward in each interval, the interest will be compounded more often.
[/quote]
February 28, 2014, 05:40:05 PM
February 28, 2014, 05:39:19 PM
one important question: with PoS, the wallet must be open to have interests?
Correct. However, the coins in an unopened wallet do continue to accrue coin age. Theoretically, you should earn the same interest whether you leave the wallet open for a year or leave it closed for a year and then open it, but with compound interest it is in your best interest to leave the wallet open as much as possible so your interest can also gain interest.
February 28, 2014, 05:38:25 PM
can someone simply explain this dump rate? just why so low?
initial distribution by short-term PoW miners. Same thing happened with Mintcoin. First week it sat low at 4-8 satoshis then exploded to 50 satoshis. No worries the PoW mining period for BC will end soon.
February 28, 2014, 05:36:18 PM
one important question: with PoS, the wallet must be open to have interests?
Yes, it actually is mining PoS blocks and only can when open and unlocked.
February 28, 2014, 05:35:21 PM
can someone simply explain this dump rate? just why so low?
No demand for coin - who is going to buy it? It will make sense tommorow morning @ 500 sato.. if we are lucky
February 28, 2014, 05:33:17 PM
can someone simply explain this dump rate? just why so low?
February 28, 2014, 05:32:57 PM
I just realized that I don't think there will actually be 100 million total coins by block 10000. At block 10000 POW will no longer give rewards.
We are at 7418 right now, but a lot of those blocks are from POS which did not generate a 10000 BC reward. As evidenced by the fact that the
the moneysupply is 61,660,685 instead of 74,180,000. This coin will be a little rarer than expected.
We are at 7418 right now, but a lot of those blocks are from POS which did not generate a 10000 BC reward. As evidenced by the fact that the
the moneysupply is 61,660,685 instead of 74,180,000. This coin will be a little rarer than expected.
I was looking at that too... I believe that any coins that are currently being held in stake are effectively taken out of the money supply until they remature and that the money supply shown will fluctuate as various chunks of coins stake and mature. PoW is still generating 10,000 BC per block x 10,000 blocks for 100,000,000 coins. There is no way around that math.
Are you really sure? Looking at http://blocks.blackcoin.pw/chain/BlackCoin I see alot of blocks at less than 10000 value out. For example block 7580 and 7581.
Exactly ... see my post right above yours.
Yeah! So wait, that means at block 5000 we kind off went through a decrease in mining? Since many of the blocks are generated by pos and it's still 1 minute block time.
Edit: mind blown, nobody noticed it, but I think block reward almost halved at block 5000, since half of blocks are generated by pos.
Edit 2: looking at block explorer I see that blocks are generated twice as fast after block 5000, since pos and pow have different difficulties and each one have 60 second block time. But does that mean pow will alone generate 10000 blocks or will it stop when both reaches 10000 blocks altogether? If pow will generate 10000 blocks alone, then we'll be at block 15000 or so before pow stops.
Not really sure, no. Hence "I believe"
I had not checked the block explorer and did not realize that the PoS blocks were added to the block height, but it makes sense. I would assume (but I don't know) that there will still be a total of 10,000 PoW blocks at 10,000 BC each, but I am basing that assumption on the coin specifications stating that there will be 10,000 blocks of 10,000 BC. If PoS blocks are being added to the block height, it stands to reason that PoW will not stop at a block height of 10,000 but will end at a block height of 10,000 plus however many PoS blocks are generated between block height 5000 (when PoS kicked in) and the 10,000th PoW block. If they are being generated at roughly equal rates, then yes, PoW should end around block 15000.
Note though that these are my assumptions only, based solely upon what I've observed and deduced, and may or may not be correct. It just seems like the most logical explanation to me.
February 28, 2014, 05:32:39 PM
I was just playing in the mintpal exchange getting another 30k black.... there was a lot of numbers bouncing around without much support at any level, it was confusing and reeked of manipulation
February 28, 2014, 05:29:40 PM
The market being totally manipulated right now by someone who has a HUGE amount of BC. They have the market cornered and are buying up every last piece of BC they can get. This coin could be worth nothing tomorrow, but this mass buying spree is happening for a reason. If you have coins, HOLD THEM! If your looking to buy more, then you would be wise to do it sooner rather than later.
Yes, i think you are 100% right, too bad for all the guys who sold them Blacks for nearly nothing
I think this coin will still hit the 5000 Satoshi after all coins are mined
Exactly. Just ask yourself why the Top 100 is getting richer and richer but dont sell their coins...
Where can i see the top 100?
February 28, 2014, 05:29:04 PM
The market being totally manipulated right now by someone who has a HUGE amount of BC. They have the market cornered and are buying up every last piece of BC they can get. This coin could be worth nothing tomorrow, but this mass buying spree is happening for a reason. If you have coins, HOLD THEM! If your looking to buy more, then you would be wise to do it sooner rather than later.
Yes, i think you are 100% right, too bad for all the guys who sold them Blacks for nearly nothing
I think this coin will still hit the 5000 Satoshi after all coins are mined
Exactly. Just ask yourself why the Top 100 is getting richer and richer but dont sell their coins...
Because there is not enough BID's on all exchanges? You cannot sell 100,000 BC now for any price - there is simply no demand.
We are all fucked with this coin for a long time, until it gets spread around.
February 28, 2014, 05:27:33 PM
The market being totally manipulated right now by someone who has a HUGE amount of BC. They have the market cornered and are buying up every last piece of BC they can get. This coin could be worth nothing tomorrow, but this mass buying spree is happening for a reason. If you have coins, HOLD THEM! If your looking to buy more, then you would be wise to do it sooner rather than later.
Yes, i think you are 100% right, too bad for all the guys who sold them Blacks for nearly nothing
I think this coin will still hit the 5000 Satoshi after all coins are mined
Exactly. Just ask yourself why the Top 100 is getting richer and richer but dont sell their coins...
February 28, 2014, 05:26:49 PM
Addition to Bounties:
I'm paying 500 BC for good articles about BlackCoin. Limit: 8.
The first one gets 1000.
- Post your link here in the topic.
I'm paying 25 BC to EVERY PERSON that adds a link to either the website or this bitcointalk thread in their signature. Limit: 50
- Leave your address in my inbox.
I'm paying 500 BC for good articles about BlackCoin. Limit: 8.
The first one gets 1000.
- Post your link here in the topic.
I'm paying 25 BC to EVERY PERSON that adds a link to either the website or this bitcointalk thread in their signature. Limit: 50
- Leave your address in my inbox.
February 28, 2014, 05:25:58 PM
one important question: with PoS, the wallet must be open to have interests?
February 28, 2014, 05:24:08 PM
February 28, 2014, 05:21:02 PM
The market being totally manipulated right now by someone who has a HUGE amount of BC. They have the market cornered and are buying up every last piece of BC they can get. This coin could be worth nothing tomorrow, but this mass buying spree is happening for a reason. If you have coins, HOLD THEM! If your looking to buy more, then you would be wise to do it sooner rather than later.
Yes, i think you are 100% right, too bad for all the guys who sold them Blacks for nearly nothing
I think this coin will still hit the 5000 Satoshi after all coins are mined
February 28, 2014, 05:20:12 PM
The market being totally manipulated right now by someone who has a HUGE amount of BC. They have the market cornered and are buying up every last piece of BC they can get. This coin could be worth nothing tomorrow, but this mass buying spree is happening for a reason. If you have coins, HOLD THEM! If your looking to buy more, then you would be wise to do it sooner rather than later.
Yes, i think you are 100% right, too bad for all the guys who sold them Blacks for nearly nothing
February 28, 2014, 05:16:20 PM
The market being totally manipulated right now by someone who has a HUGE amount of BC. They have the market cornered and are buying up every last piece of BC they can get. This coin could be worth nothing tomorrow, but this mass buying spree is happening for a reason. If you have coins, HOLD THEM! If your looking to buy more, then you would be wise to do it sooner rather than later.
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