Topic: [ANN] CureCoin 2.0 is live - Mandatory Update is available now - DEC 2018 - page 27. (Read 696267 times)

Actually, unless things have changed, there were supposed to be 2 different coins: CC2.0 which would replace CC1.0 and remove SHA256D PoW and SigmaX which would keep the PoW.

Agreed, CureCoin is literally the difference between me folding and mining some random dumpcoin.

IMO, I agree with you, and it shouldn't work that way. But, given that the project has been around for a while, it is highly unlikely there will be any significant changes to address underlying characteristics like this until the launch of 2.0. Given that the point of the project is to increase the contributions to Folding@Home, I think the current system is designed well to support rewarding Folding@Home contributors and currency holders. Less emphasis on rewarding contributors would mean lower rates of contribution. Less emphasis on rewarding PoS would mean a lower currency valuation. Beyond a certain threshold, there would be no additional value to the project as a whole in support greater rewards for miners/ASICs.

I'm not "upset" about any such thing. If I were to use the word upset, I'd say that I find it upsetting that the OP is fallacious in the depiction of the "participation" role that ASICs can play in CureCoin.
Most specifically if there hasn't been any block in 40 minutes and the next block is PoS, and PoS difficulty is cut in half, it will still increase the PoW difficulty (which is only lowered by a long PoW block average time, not overall average block time of the network).

From what I understand, the "future SigmaX coin" (aka Curecoin 2.0) is similar to the current PoS system that is in place now with 1.X (one that Genie is upset about because it was taken out of the SHA allocation).

Sure, CureCoin is THE Braggingcoin

BTW - for some of us (those who hold their CURE) it's not "Quadruple Payout" it's Quintuple as the future SigmaX coin will be distributed as a reward for holding CURE (if I remember well).

With the right profit-switching set up on my solo pool (and 3 1080s), I could average ~$70 p/week more by mining instead of folding*. It's more coding than most are willing to endure, or capable of doing, but it's done and is still an option. I'm sure it doesn't seem like it to most people that I'd think this way, but, imo, the altruistic and scientific benefits balance the equation at any difference under 25%.





*using numbers from before the 1080 Ti was released - mining would be even higher now, but I don't have the actual numbers since I no longer GPU mine

 More figures for your grist mill - I earned 157 Curecoin yesterday which would equate out to *ABOUT* 5300 FLDC.

 Some folks that do FLDC aren't on Team Curecoin, but some Team Curecoin folks don't do FLDC which makes is a bit more complicated than the basic 7470 coins vs 250k coins per day multiplier.
 This works out to about $68 at RIGHT NOW prices for both on Bittrex on 11 x 1070 and a 1080 (my current loadout for my Folding rigs).

 Those same cards would have made about $72 working DGB-Skein or DGB-Groestl, or would have been about $60 working ETH or ZEC (profitability on those on a 1070 is pretty much dead even right now).

 Had I sold earlier in the day, I think FLDC was high enough to get that total to almost $80 - but I don't HAVE that FLDC for a few more days, no telling where the price will be by the time I DO have the coin available for sale.

 (edit - FLDC did a very rare "right after distribution" spike, so I actually made MORE for once).

 If you can afford to hold Curecoin and Foldingcoin for the spikes, you can probably make MORE on high-end NVidia cards via dual-payment folding then via cryptocoin mining right now - but it's somewhat riskier given FLDC only pays out once a month, and the price usually dumps right before or right at the start of the payout.

 Worst case, though, if the current price ranges hold and another 100M PPD don't join the team, it should be close - and it's close enough I can AFFORD to fold for the time being. 8-)


 BTW - for some of us it's not "Triple Payout", it's Quadruple - "bragging rights" are in there somewhere. 9-)

So since 2288421 PPD means 4x 1070, what could that user expect with this setup if he mined MORE profitable options instead of folding? Is the delta really worth not helping science?

Not that it has much real probative value, but as near as I can tell with a quick glance (based on points > 0):
441 users got some measure of FLDC in the last week, based on points (lowest earning 37 points)
282 users got some measure of CURE in the last week, based on points (lowest earning 125 points)

FWIW (which probably isn't much more than idle conversation):
Using yesterday's numbers, the "CureCoin + FLDC Merged Folding Profit Calculator", and the 1st random FLDC recipient I came across*...

Folding@home points per day
2,288,421

CureCoin Folding Difficulty / Team PPD
258,668,211

FoldingCoin Difficulty / Team PPD
232,329,903

CureCoins per Day
66.24585364298977

Folding Coins per Day
2,462.4692844639976

CureCoin Price
$0.109USD

FoldingCoin Price
$0.01USD

Earnings from CureCoin
$7.220798047085885USD

Earnings from FoldingCoin
$24.624692844639977USD

Total Earnings
$31.845490891725863USD





* coincidentally, a CureCoin team member -- QQ_ALL_123GAA3DF7HfNrZX8nHQLXj9eE2FX2r5Ug

Since folding might help to find cures for diseases that maybe could save someday the life of some of your beloved, folding has actually TRIPLE REWARDS!!

 I'm personally not that worried about calling it a bribe.
 Too many years spent in 3'd world and even some 2'nd world countries where bribery is the norm and often is perfectly legal.

 However, calling it a "reward program for participation in Folding@Home on Team Curecoin" would be a more accurate description that isn't offensive.

 In some fundamentals, it's very little different from the 10-year-old EVGA "Folding Bucks" program - you do folding work for their specific team, they give you rewards (though the EVGA program limits how much reward you CAN earn through their program per month and limits where you can use the rewards to spending it on EVGA gear where CureCoin doesn't limit you nearly as much on where/how you can spend the rewards you earn).


 In the case of FoldingCoin, the case CAN be made that it offers the potential to be a reward for being part of the larger project, since FoldingCoin isn't team specific (though the requirement to have an entire BLOODY LONG FLDC address as part of your username is a pain) - this "non-team-specific" is what makes it possible to do both CureCoin and FoldingCoin (or EVGA Bucks and FoldingCoin) to earn dual rewards for the same work.
 
 DUAL REWARDS is the only thing that gives Folding any chance to compete with Cryptocoin work in general on profitability for high-end NVidia cards (1070 and UP) over the last year and change I've been aware of CureCoin - CureCoin by itself has never been all that close, and FoldingCoin by itself was worth less than half of Curecoin per unit of folding work done 'till Poloniex delisted Curecoin - and even NOW Foldingcoin isn't as profitable as ZEC much less some of the MORE profitable options for upper range NVidia cards.

 Even the dual-rewards option isn't competative with cryptocoin mining on anything AMD at this time (the Fury line makes a LOT more on ZEC mining, or even on ETH mining, than it can manage via folding) - that might be different for VEGA, but I have some doubts on that score given the "leaked specs" I've seen so far for VEGA.




 Interesting fact I noticed yesterday - Team Curecoin as of yesterday was responsable for almost 20% of ALL Folding@Home work.
 I couldn't find a figure for the percentage done by FoldingCoin participants that were not on Team Curecoin, but it didn't look like more than 1-2 more percent.
 There is the question of "how much of that work would have still been done by the same folks if CureCoin and FoldingCoin didn't exist", but I suspect over half of it is specifically due to the existance of the 2 coins.

 The entirety of MY farm (currently good for about 6.8 MPPD, and will jump to over 8 MPPD once the parts for my next rig get here and I get the system built and up-and-runnning) would NOT be folding at this time or for pretty much any part of the last year, and most of it would never have folded (some of it wouldn't EXIST) if CureCoin and FoldingCoin didn't exist - and none of my contribution to the BOINC project would EVER have happened if GridCoin didn't exist.

 Team EVGA was responsable for about 10% more of the work done yesterday, but given commentary I've seen in the EVGA folding forum I suspect a majority of those folders would be folding even without the EVGA Bucks program (just with fewer and older cards since they wouldn't be able to afford to upgrade or add cards as often).

 Those "almost 20%" and "about 10%" figures were also valid for all work done in the past month, but I didn't see any way to check for the "last year" equivilent.

I think that you, like many others, are missing the central, fundamental point that it's not merely payment for being part of the larger project.
CureCoin is a payment for forgoing all other team choices and folding on team 224497, and on team 224497 only. I'm glad the term has "negative associations" because "it's REALLY A BAD IDEA to" pay people to be on team 224497 only.

Which synonym for "bribe" has enough "positive associations" for me to use in it's stead, so's to not offend your delicate sensibilities?  

While classing CureCoin (and FoldingCoin and to a much lesser degree GridCoin) as "legal bribes" is technically correct, the term "bribe" has enough negative associations that it's REALLY A BAD IDEA to talk about them that way.


 Curecoin *IS* useful for buying folding gear - just not DIRECTLY, you have to swap it into BitCoin first.
 Directly WOULD be an improvement - but higher value for CureCoin would help even more.


 Given EVGA's long committment to *some* support for Folding@Home, I don't think it's ENTIRELY implausable that they could be convinced to support CureCoin instead of their current "Folding Bucks" program, as long as you don't mind them BRAGGING about such support (which would end up being some mighty cheap advertising *IF* they could be convinced to support CureCoin) - this seems like an increasingly likely option as they slowly lose ground to, and eventually get passed, by Team Curecoin.

 Their current program already requires folks to join a specific team - and then jump through a significant number of other hoops - to get their rewards - and RIGHT NOW their rewards are quite a bit less than folding for CureCoin pays out for the same amount of points earned (much less CURE + FLDC).

 If they could be convinced to buy a fixed amount of CureCoin equal to their average expenditure per month in recent months for the EVGA Bucks program, in exchange for being allowed to ADVERTISE and BRAG about how they are supporting Folding@Home through their support for CureCoin, it could be a win-win situation for both groups - EVGA gets to budget a fixed amount a month instead of having no idea how much they're going to have to give credits for, and CureCoin gets a regular infusion of coin bought to support the price.
 
 The question then becomes "what happens to the CureCoin that EVGA bought", which is the big sticking point I can see to the whole idea.


 BTW, it appears that the Gates foundation isn't exactly opposed to supporting @Home related work.

 https://www.genomeweb.com/informatics/gates-foundations-hiv-grant-catapults-rosetta-protein-folding-software-vaccine-d-0

 from over a decade ago.

I'm too lazy to look up if/where I said all of these thing (in order to respond in proper context), however, I'll go with the two most glaringly obvious...

"Reality check!"
I'm almost certain this was a case of me reusing the specific phrase that I quoted someone else (QuintLeo in this case) saying. While it is, admittedly, somewhat passive-aggressive, I have a tenancy to use some of people's own language back at them to drive a point home. If the use of a term offends you, then perhaps you shouldn't use it. 

"bribing people" (basically a crime!)
To bribe is "to give someone money or something else of value...[in order] to persuade that person to do something you want". I'm assuming we can agree on that much, no? While many definitions do include a modifier to "bribe" that is "often illegally", "typically illegally", or something similar, I'd direct you to realize that "often", "typically", and "always" aren't synonymous. The fact remains that as long as the only way to get CureCoin as payment for folding ("to give someone ... something... of value") is to be on team 224497 ("to persuade that person to do something you want" - i.e., not be on another team), it is a bribe. The implication of illegality is one you've drawn all on your own.

On this point, we have contacted national computer parts vendors who already accept bitcoin, approached graphics card manufacturers (outside of EVGA), and had meetings with a large international retailer, even cold called the offices of a Sharktank billionaire. We've sent out a lot of letters to Hollywood stars. If we were to announce every time we cold call a company, sent an email, or had a meeting that yielded interest, but no commitment, we would be accused of pumping. So yes there have been efforts on that front, and yes we need to continue to approach retailers and heavy hitters directly and via social media.

Sean Ono Lennon said CureCoin was 'interesting' on twitter, so we can't be that bad :-)


When you approach science coin teams (including FLDC) with euphemisms like "getting screwed", "meaningless", "enjoying the status quo", "delusional", "under the guise of 'mining'", "Reality check!", even going as far as accusing the team of "bribing people" (basically a crime!), at some point your concerns wont be taken seriously - sorry.

Get involved if you like the project's potential - we appreciate constructive input as east-wrest pointed out, but why relish in the contempt for something you're obviously vested in?
 

I completely understand and agree wholeheartedly.

1) I'll add a task to our team board to see if I can get this changed
2) We're working on strategic partnerships to increase the utility of the coin. I have this same concern and am working in many different regards to finding ways to increase the incentive to buy/mine/fold for
Curecoin.
3) I'll see if I can get this in front of Vorksholk to see if/how this is addressed in Curecoin 2.0
4) I understand and, though it may not mean much, apologize on behalf of the team. Thank you for your honest feedback.

While I appreciate the offer, I'm not a big fan of taking public things private or private things public.

My "issues"/concerns are but limited to four:

1) The statement of:
is, at best misleading.
   a) Someone that is "heavily-invested in ASIC equipment" not going to fair well pointing that equipment at CureCoin,
   b) they're literally looked down upon for doing so. I use this morning's      as a reference, because I'm too lazy to look up the other 2 or 3 times he's basically said the same thing.

2) There's no known activity on the part of devs to make CureCoin useful to purchase folding equipment. Making the primary purpose of the coin appear to be nothing more than dumping coins on altruistic buyers.

3) Through a willful act, or ignorance of code, PoS blocks increase the diff for PoW blocks (even when PoS diff goes down), creating 1a.

4) Being treated like a moronic child for pointing out that 1-3 are actual issues.

Hey ComputerGenie,

I would be happy to sit down with you and try to get a feeling for your concerns. I'm not sure I can do much to change things, but maybe I can try and gather some feedback to bring back to the rest of the team.

Feel free to shoot me an email: todd at curecoin.io.

No, no, no, and no.
My assertion of PoS causing the PoW diff rise has nothing to do with the "block explorer" and everything to do with the fact that PoS also causes the PoW diff rise.

173163(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 10,849,564.343398461
173164(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 11,674,646.420183057
173165(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 12,687,747.819705047
173166(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 13,238,472.427967682
173167(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 14,302,744.14371756
173168(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 15,519,504.990542868
173169(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 16,837,335.577709377
173170(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 18,167,462.831460673
173171(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 18,493,202.31708548
173172(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 19,936,804.84795735
173173(Proof of Work) found - new PoW diff: 21,623,593.34002006
173174(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 23,508,549.29570237
173175(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 25,572,621.248052098
173176(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 27,842,361.37148645
173177(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 33,118,312.31543119
173178(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 33,136,278.308670625
173179(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 39,731,716.177215986
173180(Proof of Stake) found - new PoW diff: 39,749,396.211334035

I'm not a fan of pointless code, so I don't have the PoS diffs in my PoW stratum; however, I'm guessing you're capable enough to look at whatever block explorer you thought I was looking at and see that the PoS diff goes both up and down, during the blocks noted above, based on PoS block times alone.

FACT: PoS blocks increase the PoW diff.
FACT: PoW diff never decreases due to lack of PoS (i.e.,long PoS block times).
FACT: Long PoS block times decrease PoS.
FACT: Long PoS block times only decrease PoS.
FACT: PoW blocks increase PoW diff.
FACT: PoW blocks do not increase PoS diff.
FACT: Long PoW block times are the only thing that decrease PoW diff.

As for what coin I would/could/should be mining and when: for the last several months, "alts" generally pay more when traded for BTC than actually mining BTC (most days 1.5-3x) and I've been looking for a decent coin to stick with since NEOS went PoS.

And, now, we've both wasted 5 minutes.

Accuse me of being a child, a "troll", or a "butthead" all you want; however, when you do, at least set aside your hubris long enough to pull your head out of your ass!