Topic: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - page 898. (Read 2007090 times)

Quote from: corather on June 19, 2016, 03:44:16 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

you dont have ether or dao ?

becoin

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 04:22:02 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

Thats more or less true with a soft fork, but a hard fork, is like going back in time an change the law.
Example:

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique. The casino owner is bankruped and the stock is dropping by 50%. He and his stock owners decide to go back in time and change the casino rules, so that the one, that wins the 50 Million at this day doesn't have to be payed out. Fair?

But even the soft fork can be somehow discussable:
The winner won the 50 Million, that can only be payed out a month later. But the Casino owner closes the casino, and sets all escrow funds on hold.

In a casino, if you exploit to win, you're thrown out and blacklisted at every casino in town.

I thought it was a smart contract platform?
In a casino you have to have a lot of luck.
Welcome to eth casino. Good Luck!

lordoliver

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:17:48 AM

Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 04:16:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:15:10 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:10:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:17:48 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

This is consensus, this is democracy.

you go back in time... you just don't see it

OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

and you are 100% sure, that you do?

Yes, but after all it doesn't matter as long as i'm with the consensus. (hint: this is what cryptos are all about)

We all know, that the consensus is not yet final. There are pers and cons, that have to be discussed. 90% of the people are manipulated by such discussions...
Thats why I want to make clear, that there ARE cons. Please make sure, that everyone notes them...

ocminer

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Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 04:16:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:15:10 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:10:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: ocminer on June 19, 2016, 04:16:21 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

This is consensus, this is democracy.

you go back in time... you just don't see it

OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

and you are 100% sure, that you do?

Yes, but after all it doesn't matter as long as i'm with the consensus. (hint: this is what cryptos are all about)

Mrpumperitis

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHcLKrkwPLQ

Published on 18 Jun 2016

A live show recorded in the aftermath of the DAO's draining of funds by an unknown actor. In this show, Andreas M. Antonopoulos moderates a discussion with guests Pamela Morgan (attorney), Brian Klein (attorney) and Taylor Gerring (Ethereum Project co-founder), with live twitter Q&A and participation from the DAO slack channel.

lordoliver

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:15:10 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:10:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:15:10 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

This is consensus, this is democracy.

you go back in time... you just don't see it

OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

and you are 100% sure, that you do?

ocminer

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:10:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

This is consensus, this is democracy.

you go back in time... you just don't see it

OK then we go back in time - still doesn't change anything.. You don't understand what this is about.

lordoliver

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:10:21 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 04:10:21 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

This is consensus, this is democracy.

you go back in time... you just don't see it

ocminer

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.

We're not going back in time, we're fixing a flaw of a new technique/program.

You cannot simply say "hey, this is anarchism, this is the free world, the attacker stole 50 mills because a human programmed something not 100% accurate." There will always be flaws in any kind of program which will always be fixed .. There will always be Versions and Revisions.. 1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 etc...

This is consensus, this is democracy.

notbatman

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The person who complains about the fork is the same one who loves sausages but can't hold his lunch after he sees how they're made.

6436346346

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

Not sure adding a transaction blacklist incase it happens again was the smartest move

https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/pull/2715/commits/4fca3a7c4cb193b505cf9ba57b42c66adbd37868

Now they can do this whenever a smart contract does not do what the contract dev expected, seem dangerous to me

lordoliver

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:49:56 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

The point is, that we are not allowed to go back in time, just because we can. You always have side effects you don't foresee.
For example if you go back and kill hitler you save millions of people. But maybe the russians may have taken lead of the world and bombed usa with an atomic bomb and killed even more...

ocminer

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

That still doesn't change anything on the situation

Mrpumperitis

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Activity: 2856

Merit: 1075

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

well respected opinion

OC rocks

lordoliver

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

You didn't understand the image... the new technique was not the blockchain... but the different call of the contract by the attacker...

ocminer

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Activity: 2716

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Quote from: corather on June 19, 2016, 03:44:16 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique.

Not the true story, true story:

A crew of people invest 150 Million into a new casino with all new technique, someone finds a flaw in the code and cheats out 50 Million of the casino...

What to do ? Of course roll back, fix the code, and "restart" the new technique casino...

lordoliver

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Activity: 1666

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Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

Quote from: lordoliver on June 19, 2016, 03:17:31 AM

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

Thats more or less true with a soft fork, but a hard fork, is like going back in time an change the law.
Example:

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique. The casino owner is bankruped and the stock is dropping by 50%. He and his stock owners decide to go back in time and change the casino rules, so that the one, that wins the 50 Million at this day doesn't have to be payed out. Fair?

But even the soft fork can be somehow discussable:
The winner won the 50 Million, that can only be payed out a month later. But the Casino owner closes the casino, and sets all escrow funds on hold.

In a casino, if you exploit to win, you're thrown out and blacklisted at every casino in town.

yea if you scam. but this was a legal move. It was implicitly written in their rules.
Something like "you roll the dice as you want". But now you come with a new throwing technique, that is legal...

corather

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Solarcoin.org

This seems pretty simple to me.
Decentralized crypto-currencies are all about consensus.
Vitalik suggested a hard fork rollback.
The majority seem to want it...that's consensus!

Now roll it back.

Note - I was not affected by this DAO/ETH situation.

Thats more or less true with a soft fork, but a hard fork, is like going back in time an change the law.
Example:

You go into the casino and win legally 50 Million with a new technique. The casino owner is bankruped and the stock is dropping by 50%. He and his stock owners decide to go back in time and change the casino rules, so that the one, that wins the 50 Million at this day doesn't have to be payed out. Fair?

But even the soft fork can be somehow discussable:
The winner won the 50 Million, that can only be payed out a month later. But the Casino owner closes the casino, and sets all escrow funds on hold.

In a casino, if you exploit to win, you're thrown out and blacklisted at every casino in town.

lordoliver

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