Topic: [ANN] FedoraCoin (TiPS); New style, new services, same unique features - page 60. (Read 181129 times)

hm, I see the problem. I guess the network (community) wasn't big enough, and I guess it's still small right now. we still have less than 2000 subscribers on reddit. but on the other hand, if we want it to grow then we need such a place and hopefully little action will draw more action. and I think we have at least a few active members who would want to get involved and take part.

I'm all for the current devs if they like any of those projects to take them up, I would like to fund them and support them. I guess that's also why I would like to have that forum, it's supposed to let us know what is going on in each project. if it's only in the background then we can't know enough to support, and we cannot contribute. I also don't know how they do their work right now if only on IRC, I think a forum with a structure would help them also organize better especially if the number of projects should grow. but icanprogramm agreed to do it and I guess he'll have it active again soon , I hope his effort won't be for nothing I hope this time it will be different else I would feel guilty about it pushing so hard .

So then it's our responsibility to get the action going, I think we can start a number of ideas that are already available and announce them here and on reddit so those who are interested can get involved. If we are like 10 people only interested in the forum in the start and active, I think we could make it happen. I suggest we also look at the structure and decide what sections make the best sense, and maybe assign different people as managers to the different sections depending on their interests and they would take care of keeping it organized and active, announcing new stuff to reddit etc.

About bitshares, I did not grasp the concept back then but here is the letstalkbitcoin interview with them, it seems the names are on the blockchain and you need to mine them so not sure if this concept could be of any use to us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHp261AsW5o
Anyway, I guess if we could find a practical solution to implement then we could market it to the artists based on this feature. maybe it's worth it.

I totally agree with your statement on developper. IMHO, we could already start a fund for the existing team, who worked for free until now. They should probably get enough skills to work on some of the projects you proposed. Or certainly know people who can join the team, even as a free-lance on a particular project. Dark things happen on IRC you know

Regarding the forum, even if I backed you up on the noble quest of getting back the old one, I have to explain why icanprogram was a bit reluctant.
When we launched the forum at the beginning of the year, the same idea was regularly popping out the community's brain : "hey, we need a proper forum to discuss". Unfortunately it was never used nor visited and maintaining it took more time than the time people spent writing down subjects.

Finally, I'm not sure I understand what Bitshares is actually doing... 

yep, all that is very exciting and theose are exciting problems that need to be solved in order to build those services, ie. we need to have those projects going with developers working on them, ideally they would be excited themselves about it and wanting to see the projects finished. So instead of hiring somebody for short term payments and telling them exactly what to do, I would rather go for models where the devs get rewarded in the long run by being part of the final product, like we build a team and make a business out of the idea and we have gains if we were successful in the end.
I think for the question of short names linked to the public addresses we probably could learn from Bitshares who I think created exactly that using Bitcoin last year.
Maybe we could try to make a business out of this physical TiPS idea by providing the services and for that taking a percentage of the tips like I suggested in the proposal, what do you think?

There's pro's and con's to using btctalk to seek devs.  

In favour of a FedoraCoin forum is that any developers who've gone there to read will be more committed to seeing Fedoracoin do well, versus devs who might be attracted on btctalk by the payment model, but are thus equally likely to be lured off project by something promising bigger rewards.

In favour of btctalk is the sheer exposure - lots of eyes here to read.

My personal preference is to have a separate Fedora forum for idea generation/fleshing out/preparation, and ideally to have interested developers head there from links here.  That way only ones interested enough to click the link will end up reading the project blurb.  

I don't think there's a massive rush - crypto is an area where getting it right is more important than being first, and the only impatient ones are the traders who want to pump prices and make profit.

The challenge at this stage will always be finding competent devs who are motivated to deliver.  Heck, the number of ideas I've got floating around has me wanting to pick up coding again and get to grips with blockchains (used to write java/c++ in the late 90's).  

I have just started re-reading Design Patterns to refresh my memory, and wondering where my reference books are (I think I recycled a lot of them a few years ago ), but small kids, work and other committed hobbies are in the way, so unless I suddenly get rich enough not to need to work, its a low priority.


Nice idea - something like tinyurl for addresses.  Had me looking into domain names lol.. tip.pr seems to be available.

The mechanics are surprisingly complex for a simple idea tho - lots of questions and use-cases to resolve.  I guess thats the nature of a new market - no clear cut and established processes to follow.

e.g.
How/when does translation of the tip.pr url happen to TIPS address - in the tipper's client?  via an intermediary app/wallet?
What currencies would tippers tip in?  only TIPS?  or BTC/LTC and convert implicitly to TIPS?  even fiat (paypal/creditcard) like worldof.tips?
How to make money to fund the service/site?  Percentage of tips?  Percentage of converted currencies? (i.e. make it free for TIPS->TIPS and encourage uptake)
Which legal jurisdictions can this be done in without problems?

Gah.. need dev skills again.


Cryptsy is the most liquid market for TIPS - currently you can buy at 0.00000006 LTC, or sit it out in the queue at 5 and hope the price falls.

http://worldof.tips/buytips

We've already had that for a while

http://worldof.tips/buytips

Interesting project! I know I am too late, but where can I buy some TIPS. Sorry if this is known info and the question is slightly off topic.

these are all awesome ideas and thanks orinoco for the detailed analysis! I guess next step would be talking with interested developers who can do the work and evaluate the efforts needed as you said. We could either do it as a project for the community in which case the devs get paid through fundraising, or it can be turned into a business idea where it's presented as a service and gets a small percentage of the tips in return, which ever model should work.
I guess the easiest way to find developers would be if we had a special place for announcements whenever a project is looking for devs. I'm still hoping we get a FedoraCoin forum for these things. The idea with the musicians is also great, I also remember the efforts of jbcoins and others back then and I'm sad I don't see him here anymore he had really good skills regarding marketing and management we could have really used. I proposed an idea also long ago about the ability to create short names to connect them to a public key, so artists don't have to print out a QR but eg. graffiti artists could sign with their special name and a symbol of FedoraCoin and passers by can send them tips that way. many ideas we have and a great potential because everything is still in the beginning and we have a huge market to expand too. we just need a little bit of coordination and working together. how do you propose we go on from here?

PS. I guess about buying TiPS this might be solved fairly quickly when cryptsy finally starts its planned USD, EUR implementation in the exchange. and I bet things will be much easier a year from now maybe paypal can be used then to buy TiPS directly. we just need to get ready by then

http://www.coinwarz.com/voting

Keep voting for fedora Coin we are #3 atm

Possibly target buskers?  (people who play music in public for tips - its a british term; my american friends thought I made the word up initially!)

If we can find a way to target buskers so that they put a QR code address and a brief explanation that it can be used to tip real currency using Fedora TIPS without the hassle of needing to find small change, that would be good exposure to the general populace.

One (big) challenge is its tricky to talk an average person through the whole exchange mechanism to go from fiat currency to TIPS (i.e. buy LTC/BTC without using credit card/paypal, join an exchange, exchange for TIPS, send to own wallet.. not exactly simple for most people).

Would also love to see artists and musicians be involved in receiving TIPS as appreciation for their work/inventions/ideas as well.

Orinco, id10tothe9 and templebar are nailing it here and are all essentially on the exact same page. Agree with their analysis!! This is what jbcoins and others were saying months ago I believe.

It seems pretty obvious to me ..

Our coin 'ticker' is "TiPS"

I'm all for any app that can facilitate the act of  'tipping'  ..
In the real world ..  bars, restaurants etc ..
In the digital world .. as appreciation for online content etc

We need a mobile TiPS app
We need an online TiPS button/tab that content providers can integrate with their web pages

Triff ..

 

Thats very nice of you to say so.   Being new to the current incarnation of the cryptosphere, I'll probably be around a fair bit - I usually throw myself fairly deeply into new hobbies!


Excuse the brain dump and the idea hijack; its not intended as a hijack - I just like to reason this kind of idea into a model to assess feasibility, and doing it in public gives others a framework for discussing the idea further).. its akin to what I do for a living these days.  My background is needs analysis and solution development, originally software solutions, these days process-based.

Note that not all my blurb below is original - its derivative based on the work of id10tothe9 above, hence some overlap (like using 10's good idea of QR codes)

And also excuse any incomplete sentences, typos etc. - I've literally just written it all down and given it a rough structure, its not a polished document!



Here's a rough process..

1.  Identify a problem
2.  Identify the user group(s) who need a solution
3.  Propose/develop a solution
4.  Marketing

So lets apply it to the above post by id10tothe9 titled Project proposition to spread the use of FedoraCoin as a tipping currency in the physical world

1. Problem

There is one big inherent problem with tipping in general.  I know people who work in hospitality, and the number of establishments where tip-distribution to staff is done on an uneven basis, or just not passed on to staff (especially credit-card tips added onto the bill) is disturbingly high.  To the point where when I'm paying for dinner with a credit card, I'll still leave a cash tip, as it has a higher chance of being disbursed to the staff.

2. User group(s)

• Hospitality employees, casual staff, and ethical owners of hospitality-industry businesses
• People who want to tip

3.  Solution

Implement a piece of software either as a separate tool, or as features added to the Fedora wallet.  

The goal would be to provide a "front-end" address, and then automatically distribute tips sent to that address to an arbitrary number of registered addresses.

Useful features:

• QR codes to both present the front-end tip address, and also to register the wallets of tippees would be the ideal way to do it - phones are omnipresent these days.  e.g. Waiter A opens his TIPS wallet, generates an address, and then uses a wallet function to show a QR code which can be scanned by the "master tipping wallet" to register it
• Optional automated de-registration of tippee addresses
• Ability to export QR code from the (master) wallet as an image file (for simple printing or inclusion on menus/cards/napkins/etc., or just so the cafe owner can keep his staff wallet addresses handy to register without needing them to open their wallet each time)
• Ability to schedule distribution from master address to registered addresses using an event-based approach (1-n specified times, or regular repeating intervals e.g. hourly) - Note time intervals rather than value-based distribution because that way it can be aligned with the shift roster, and because if its done by value and its a bad night/day, its possible noone would get paid!).
• Automatic distribution of the tip "pot" immediately before any addresses are de-registered
• Tipper receipt for initial tip
• Tipper notification of disbursement of tip to n number of employees
• Tippee notification of which/how many wallets received the tip they just got (so they can police the establishment owners - to make sure owners don't add extra addresses for themselves etc.)

4.  Marketing

Being needs-driven, once marketing is underway, the user groups will actually help with the rollout and awareness-raising of their own volition as the solution directly fixes problems they have.

Pick marketing channels where hospitality staff will come across them.. online ones (twitter/fb) and physical ones (bars - seriously, everyone I've met who works in hospitality goes through  a phase of drinking a lot after-hours with their work mates).  E.g. print some drink mats (aka coasters) with "fed up with your tips being stolen?" and a URL to the tool/info will get them picked up and taken home for investigation.

If it can be developed, and announced/communicated well enough, hospitality-industry staff will start using the tool because they want the solution, so the primary marketing barrier becomes getting tippers to have a wallet and some fedora TIPS to tip with.  This isn't as hard as it sounds - tipping is something people often lack confidence in in two key ways.  a) what the "right" amount should be, and b) whether the tippee's will actually receive it.  Point (a) is something we can't fix, but (b) is something which can definitely be addressed using the tool outlined above.

If establishments are showing the address and have a note about what its for, some tippers will follow the link and sort themselves out with a wallet etc. because they like the idea.  Especially if you target somewhere with an IT/technically savvy population for initial marketing.

Lastly, communicate the expected milestones in project announcement, but not the schedule (i.e. just the objectives) - that way if/when it runs late, noone starts to bitch!  So many software projects die before completion because deadlines are missed and the users get agro about it and move on!

Conclusion

Ok, so based on the rough analysis outlined in the above mess/points, it sounds to me like id10tothe9's idea has merit.

By which I mean that id10tothe9's initial proposal is solid as its written.  My running with it could be seen as a "future evolution of the concept" and was an exercise in me reasoning out whether the initial proposal was worth investment, or would be a dead end.

The deeper questions are:

• What does everyone else think?
• Does it match the long-term goals of Fedoracoin?
• Does the community want it?
• Can the community find/interest developer(s) is building it?
• How much will development cost?  Can the community afford it?
• Is someone willing to project-manage the thing?  (I mean someone with real project-management experience/skills, as this is a reasonably complex delivery.. i.e. not just someone who sticks their hand up for everything they like the sound of )

There are some nice ideas going on here.
Let me pitch in mine too.

1. A web wallet.Credit with free 100/1000 tips when someone joins, which can be raised via community funding.
2. A template generator for a template, which displays the tips logo, a qr code and a catchy caption.

Use case.
As a user, I register at this website, which sets up my own personal tips account and give me the html script for a tips template.
I embed this template in my blog, and everytime some one likes my blog post, experienced users can donate via the QR code and for novices,
they can click on the url for web wallet, describe as 1 above, create an account and donate tip from there.

If we can get enough bloggers/website owners brought into this idea, we can reach to a lot of new people, if we can make the template design catchworthy.

Eventually in the longer term, when tips become main stream, we could replace the thumbsup/like logo in websites with tips logo.

Orinoco Womble great thoughts and I hope you stay around because I think your contribution is valuable and we need such members in the community!
Fargusson, I think you forgot to add the link for the coin mixing article at the end of your post?

I would also like to repost an idea here since not all read the reddit posts, maybe some people would like to take it up and it would help us to spread into the physical realm and to the merchants:

Project proposition to spread the use of FedoraCoin as a tipping currency in the physical world

Idea:
- have you often noticed when buying in your local shops, even in non-english speaking countries, how they have their tipping jar next to the counter and written on it "Tips"?
- We need to provide them with an additional option of accepting TiPS as a tipping currency by a very simple process that they would be willing to try out.

Goal of project:
spreading the use of TiPS in local shops around the world as an accepted currency to receive tips from customers.
How it should work:
- this is just some basic reasoning of how this could work, but I leave it to you and to those who might even make a business out of it to explore the details and realize it on your own.
- either a sticker, or a cool designed construct from paperboard etc with the official FedoraCoin symbol on it and a QR code.
- the customers need to have the FedoraCoin app on their mobile, then they would just need to scan the code and send the tip they want to.
- the shop owner can then sell those coins on exchanges for the currencies they desire, probably USD on cryptsy for example for US customers. not sure how w/FedoraCoin works, maybe they can provide services here..

Important technical details to make it possible:
- we first need a dedicated page (this can be a project worked on by programmers who want to earn money through this), the page provides the service for interested shop owners to provide them with all the info and tools they need in very simple 1,2,3 steps manner on how to start accepting TiPS.
- they would need to provide a simple and trusted tools where the shop owners can generate a paper wallet etc, and generate a QR code that they can print out.
- maybe provide a simple tool for the shop owners to check the status of their wallet, notifications every evening/week end on the status of the wallet and new income.
- you see where this is going.

if you want you might actually make a good business out of this, by providing this service you might be able to ask for a commission, like 1% of the tips received would be forwarded to your business, and for that you provide your customers with help and consulting etc.

So either those who want to make business with this, or some of you active programmers think its simple and the tools already exist (alas I'm not a programmer), you can provide the tools and links to the community, and then we start an initiative as a community, to go out in our areas print out the cool FedoraCoin "TiPS accepted" design on paper/constructs/3D prints etc and give them to our favourite shops and ask them to try it out, and then we become their first tippers and send them tips with our mobile apps whenever we shop there.

Other suggestions:
- the QR code could include info for those customers who don't have the FedoraCoin app, to be directed to a dedicated website when they scan the code, to get them educated about the currency and how to install the app.
- when somebody convinces a shop to accept/try TiPS, they can make a photo together, with the shop's name and the QR code visible, and those photos get published on a dedicated site. this will be considered a free ad for the shops, and additionally, the community can start sending tips to those new shops as encouragement since their QR code is now available.
- at a later stage, I can imagine waiters etc having a simple badge with FedoraCoin symbol and a QR code, the customers need just scan it with their phones and send TiPS.. (though I don't see why this should happen later when it is already possible today and all we need it to go out and start doing it)

That's a good question.

We've chosen that when we launched the new, restylized and rebranded FedoraCoin in order to make all the present and future announcement thread with an account that belong to the community, and not to the lead developper or whatever.

For that, if for any reason any of us have to leave TiPS (which won't happen without its load of tears and blood ), the remainers can easily take over the announcement thread and edit it if needed.

Hope it answered your question

Some mixing nodes should be available IMHO. Not sure that enough people are using it to make the transaction go well though. The code isn't indeed opensource.

We are advertizing about the Coin mixer from time to time, and it has the special place it deserves on http://fedoraco.in
Regardless, I just made a tweet and a Google+ post about it, just as a reminder

Regarding the e-shop you suggested, I will try to contact them within a week if anyone else on the team didn't get in touch with them already. We also make regular posts about w/FedoraCoin on the social networks though.

Anyway thanks a lot for your feedback and ideas, it's always much appreciated!
I'll try to reconsider a bit the BTC post in order to make better advertizing about the coin mixer and w/FedoraCoin.

EDIT: Here it is! Slightly rewrited.

Here's the Fedora coin mixing thread following its release.. from Feb 17th no less!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-world-first-tips-built-in-coin-mixinganonymity-service-just-launched-471660

(posting it partly so I can find it easily tomorrow, and because it should be in this thread for people to read ).

Glad to see a reply here, thanks!

I've bolded what I think is the crux of the matter, and where cryptocoins are largely failing.  Its great to see acknowledgement of that by one of the community managers for this coin!

Global b2c e-commerce (i.e. retail) is expected to hit $1.5 trillion this year (one source) , so tapping into that market in any way has to be a good thing, especially in developing economies in Asia-Pacific where the standard payments clearing/credit market is less saturated than in the European/American markets.

Providing the tools to help merchants integrate TiPS with their e-commerce sites would be a huge step, and something which,coupled with appropriate marketing, could see actual adoption of TiPS as a currency.  Even a couple of merchants with tiny turnover could make a real difference.. a single $100 purchase of fedora tips to pay for goods would be noticeable on cryptsy.  Finding out which e-commerce platforms are cheapest/easiest to target for extensions would be a good first step - I listed three good ones in my above post.

The concern I have about marketing is that general awareness in itself is not necessarily a positive thing.  One of the projects listed on myfedora.tips is "Advertise on Reddit", and the questions I find myself asking is "advertise what features? to which target customer segment?".  The content on the fedoraco.in is similarly lacking in positioning.

My impression is Fedora TiPS is being positioned not as a currency, but as a goodwill tipping tool used for forums/fun, which undermines any message of being taken seriously as a currency.  If Fedora TiPS gets a reputation as "funny forum tipping currency" it will be harder to convince that same audience to take it seriously and buy actual goods/services with it.

There is a nod to "mining" and "trading" as activities, but those don't create value or interest.. plenty of other coins are dying with those abilities.  The ones which are succeeding are the ones which have found a niche customer segment and are positioning themselves at it.. the current fashionable ones being "anonymous payments", "decentralised marketplace", and "secure contracts".  Pretty much every other coin is riding a wave of investors who don't know what they're looking for, and traders who're fleecing those investors for as much money as they can, i.e. an unsustainable market.

As an aside - you guys should be shouting from every available platform that coinjoin is already live with Fedoracoin - the latest news of delays from Darkcoin is an opportunity to gain mindshare in the anonymous space, which is a subset of the potential "serious commerce" userbase.

Anyway, enough about my thoughts, I'm just a bloke with a B Comp.Sci and an MBA who has opinions on stuff I read and think about in my spare time.  I tip my hat [sic] to those of you who're actually spending time building community and managing projects, and I've been willing to make a small acquisition (20m) of TiPS as a long-term bet.  I think this coin has a reasonable feature-set to meet the needs of actual global general commerce, more than any other large-numbered coin I've seen.

If I see more concrete positioning statements and plans, I'll buy a lot more, lock it up, and shout about the coin and its future!

And now I need to go investigate the old Fedora threads about coinjoin and figure out what's required to test it, whether there are any active nodes, and what it takes to set up a node.  From reading between the lines, the source code isn't available?

Thanks for your attention and time!

Orinoco Womble.

Hi orinoco.

Thanks for your post, really. I just quoted that only line because I think you pointed out the most important thing here.


At TiPS we also try to think that way. That's why we didn't focus on bringing new fancy features lately, but on giving TiPS some visibility around there on the Internet, coming along with a fairly great tool, w/Fedoracoin, that can be used to easily implement a FedoraCoin payment Gateway in almost any website (if it is what you meant by "plugins").
We also focused on the cross-platform side of TiPS with Android, Windows, Mac and Linux wallets.

That's why I think we have all the tools to move on.

Sure merchant directory and ATM localization will be the next step, whenever we will have set some foot outside the Internet. By now we are trying to catch some new eyes in order to, eventually, make some new merchants accept FedoraCoin.

I heard you when you say that we made too much marketing. IMHO we make marketing because in the team, hercules1600 already made his great e-shop http://worldof.tips ! We are by now in need for new talents or more likely existing merchants to adopt FedoraCoin as a payment option. And to make them aware of our existence, well, needs marketing.