[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING*** - page 142.

JaredR26

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Quote from: Mobius on September 10, 2013, 07:07:18 PM

So, in simple terms you can understand, by not delivering existing product, he is making 15 times the income than he would have if he had shipped them.

True we may have only made our actual mining income, or resold them for a greater profit that we could mine, we had no choice in the matter after his statements that retail would be delivered first.

His "compensation" of sending us BTC based on our hashrate is one sided as he stands to profit substantially more due to a failure in his supply chain and not delivering product he has on hand.

This is explicitly not true. Dave does not own the 100TH mine, and is not going to be making anywhere near that kind of profit. This is a matter of weighing the impacts between two different customers. All of our customers are important. But in one case we have a very slight impact that these customers get BTC-earned w/ boards-in-hand delays for a total of 900 GH/s(~$550 a day), and in the other case we have to bring offline nearly 15 TH/s(~$9,100 per day) of equipment owned by the other customer. There is simply no way to balance that massive discrepancy in opportunity cost such that the right thing to do(for *all* customers) is to ship out individual hardware two weeks sooner.

Please understand we will ship the hardware as soon as it is feasible to do so, and the offers we have made thus far compensate you at the maximum possible earnings from the delay.

-Redacted-

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Activity: 574

Merit: 501

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 07:41:16 PM

Quote from: -Redacted- on September 10, 2013, 04:55:26 PM

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait. I have taken steps to set aside hardware that will run on the behalf of customers in order to reduce their pain of waiting. Of course I'm not running PPS at 7%, that's ridiculous. Its PPLNS @ 3%. If you have a problem with the pool fee, then let us know what your pool is and we'll make sure you get the 1 - 2% more coin. If you want your share of NMC mined - whatever, send me an address.

Most of realize the situation, and are very thankful for your work, transparency, professionalism, and your efforts to do the right thing for all concerned.

Perhaps psjw4450 should PM you for a refund if he is so unhappy and so concerned about making ROI. Might be better for all concerned that way...

Oh - that would mean an August rig freed up and available for sale, right? Or a starter and 15 hashing cards??

Hey Redacted - you mentioned having some missing payment info and maybe a bad board - can your resend this info to me [email protected]

Will do Dave. Yvonne is handling the board replacement, so that's already taken care of. I'll email the info about the BitPay issue. Thanks.

You guys are head and shoulders above the competition - and if anyone doesn't believe that it, just ask me about my $50k worth of outstanding BFL single and MiniRig orders from November 2012. And certain people are screaming about 6 business days ??

buzzdave

vip

Activity: 472

Merit: 250

Quote from: Trongersoll on September 10, 2013, 10:36:30 AM

Quote from: aspeer on September 10, 2013, 10:29:53 AM

would people please stop flaming. it is what it is and you're filling this thread with useless posts which wastes more of my time. If you're in this buying onesie, twosie equipment purchases to try and make a 400% return you're obviously ill informed and shouldn't be spending your hard earned money on a zero sum product. Mining should and will always have the same problems and favor the earliest of adopters while punishing those who are late to the game. If you can't risk the funds then you shouldn't it's as simple as that. Things happen and you make the best of it.

Yeah. What he said. Dave is making the best decissions he can and is trying to make this whole thing work to the satisfaction of as many people as he can. If you don't like his decissions, don't buy from him anymore. But second guessing him will accomplish nothing. And bad mouthing people, that is just a demotivator.

Exactly.

Understand that my team is reading this forum and emails. The kudos really keeps 'em going. When they see you guys FUD'ing the thread its a serious demotivator. I can only be a cheerleader for so long here. The long days start to be a grind and people aren't as easy to motivate to work past midnight every night. They all could be at home with their families instead of busting ass out here all week.

buzzdave

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Activity: 472

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Quote from: kano on September 10, 2013, 05:07:26 PM

Quote from: E on September 10, 2013, 03:32:57 PM

...
Kano -- I'm on your side re: cgminer, but you don't need to drag my rate estimation into the picture XD
When I say things like "That's probably a fluctuation on the high side" and "I should report it as 34500 +/- 2500" do you honestly think I haven't considered the vagaries of various speed estimates?

Ah, I guess I shouldn't have even replied to this because I know you just needed a conversational node to bring up your lack of access to hardware. Do you want ssh access to my bitfury? 'Cause you can have it if you want...
...

Yes it is as you said, why I replied to your post originally

... and I guess this reply will explain that I want hardware not remote access and why.

I've said this often before, but I want hardware to be able to support it ... and I'm not interested in providing free support to people who are using it to make a profit ... and I certainly don't want to be losing BTC to support hardware.

Interestingly enough, I haven't so far with any - and that list isn't small IMO: Icarus, BFL FPGA, ModMinerQuad, BlackArrow Lancelot, BFL SC, AsicMInerUSB, BitBurner, Klondike, I even finally got a Cairnsmore1 yesterday after all this time ... but not from Enterpoint

It really is all pretty straight forward, people provide hardware, and we add support for it to the master cgminer.
My annoyance with the ASIC chip companies is that they want to make a profit from us directly for providing support for their hardware i.e. they want US to pay for the support we do for THEIR hardware ... they profit from us and we lose BTC in the process.

This is true of the ASIC chip companies: Avalon, AsicMiner ... and BitFury now ... ... ... but I'm sure to the chagrin of many, not BFL with their first gen chip ...

With the BitFury hardware appearing, I finally had some BTC (thanks to BFL supporting developers) to consider paying for some hardware.
So seeing yet again, another company wanting US to pay for THEIR support I thought, OK, I'm screwed if I don't get some more hardware due to the way difficulty is rising ... I'll probably have to switch off everything in the near future unless I can keep a reasonable hash rate ... especially all the non-ASIC hardware that I run (now at a loss) to keep supporting it
So I asked one of them, for whom I had recently added something to cgminer at their personal request (for no BTC), to BUY hardware from them.
The answer ended up being no coz they considered cgminer support from us not necessary (ironic?) ... so I asked to buy chips, since there is a local BitFury DIY to me ... I got no reply ... odd ...
I also replied to Punin (... yes, replied, I didn't start that conversation ...) that I wanted hardware that would pay itself off in a month (i.e. I set a relative price I'd be willing to pay for it) so that I wasn't losing out doing the support ... I've got no reply since that either ...

So basically, it seems that getting cgminer support is of no interest to BitFury ...

The first DIY to actually get cgminer support may be BarnTech here in Sydney where I live, if he manages to actually get BitFury chips in the not too distant future ... though the 500% price jump in BitFury chips has me wondering what's going to happen next ...

So, yeah, I'm not really impressed much with BitFury now either ...

Kano I gotta ship customer units before I send you free hardware.

buzzdave

vip

Activity: 472

Merit: 250

Quote from: -Redacted- on September 10, 2013, 04:55:26 PM

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait. I have taken steps to set aside hardware that will run on the behalf of customers in order to reduce their pain of waiting. Of course I'm not running PPS at 7%, that's ridiculous. Its PPLNS @ 3%. If you have a problem with the pool fee, then let us know what your pool is and we'll make sure you get the 1 - 2% more coin. If you want your share of NMC mined - whatever, send me an address.

Most of realize the situation, and are very thankful for your work, transparency, professionalism, and your efforts to do the right thing for all concerned.

Perhaps psjw4450 should PM you for a refund if he is so unhappy and so concerned about making ROI. Might be better for all concerned that way...

Oh - that would mean an August rig freed up and available for sale, right? Or a starter and 15 hashing cards??

Hey Redacted - you mentioned having some missing payment info and maybe a bad board - can your resend this info to me [email protected]

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: Doff on September 10, 2013, 07:24:10 PM

...
Wait are you going to write support in for the Cairnsmore1 now that you have one? I still have 4 running but use MPBM, would love to have them all using Cgminer. Oh crud now I am derailing the thread. Simple yes or no will suffice haha.

Yes I got it yesterday.
Will be soon.

Doff

sr. member

Activity: 327

Merit: 250

Quote from: kano on September 10, 2013, 05:07:26 PM

Quote from: E on September 10, 2013, 03:32:57 PM

...
Kano -- I'm on your side re: cgminer, but you don't need to drag my rate estimation into the picture XD
When I say things like "That's probably a fluctuation on the high side" and "I should report it as 34500 +/- 2500" do you honestly think I haven't considered the vagaries of various speed estimates?

Ah, I guess I shouldn't have even replied to this because I know you just needed a conversational node to bring up your lack of access to hardware. Do you want ssh access to my bitfury? 'Cause you can have it if you want...
...

Yes it is as you said, why I replied to your post originally

... and I guess this reply will explain that I want hardware not remote access and why.

I've said this often before, but I want hardware to be able to support it ... and I'm not interested in providing free support to people who are using it to make a profit ... and I certainly don't want to be losing BTC to support hardware.

Interestingly enough, I haven't so far with any - and that list isn't small IMO: Icarus, BFL FPGA, ModMinerQuad, BlackArrow Lancelot, BFL SC, AsicMInerUSB, BitBurner, Klondike, I even finally got a Cairnsmore1 yesterday after all this time ... but not from Enterpoint

It really is all pretty straight forward, people provide hardware, and we add support for it to the master cgminer.
My annoyance with the ASIC chip companies is that they want to make a profit from us directly for providing support for their hardware i.e. they want US to pay for the support we do for THEIR hardware ... they profit from us and we lose BTC in the process.

This is true of the ASIC chip companies: Avalon, AsicMiner ... and BitFury now ... ... ... but I'm sure to the chagrin of many, not BFL with their first gen chip ...

With the BitFury hardware appearing, I finally had some BTC (thanks to BFL supporting developers) to consider paying for some hardware.
So seeing yet again, another company wanting US to pay for THEIR support I thought, OK, I'm screwed if I don't get some more hardware due to the way difficulty is rising ... I'll probably have to switch off everything in the near future unless I can keep a reasonable hash rate ... especially all the non-ASIC hardware that I run (now at a loss) to keep supporting it
So I asked one of them, for whom I had recently added something to cgminer at their personal request (for no BTC), to BUY hardware from them.
The answer ended up being no coz they considered cgminer support from us not necessary (ironic?) ... so I asked to buy chips, since there is a local BitFury DIY to me ... I got no reply ... odd ...
I also replied to Punin (... yes, replied, I didn't start that conversation ...) that I wanted hardware that would pay itself off in a month (i.e. I set a relative price I'd be willing to pay for it) so that I wasn't losing out doing the support ... I've got no reply since that either ...

So basically, it seems that getting cgminer support is of no interest to BitFury ...

The first DIY to actually get cgminer support may be BarnTech here in Sydney where I live, if he manages to actually get BitFury chips in the not too distant future ... though the 500% price jump in BitFury chips has me wondering what's going to happen next ...

So, yeah, I'm not really impressed much with BitFury now either ...

Wait are you going to write support in for the Cairnsmore1 now that you have one? I still have 4 running but use MPBM, would love to have them all using Cgminer. Oh crud now I am derailing the thread. Simple yes or no will suffice haha.

Mobius

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Activity: 988

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Quote from: bkpduke on September 10, 2013, 04:31:17 PM

Quote from: Mobius on September 10, 2013, 08:40:42 AM

Quote from: tarmi on September 10, 2013, 08:39:14 AM

Quote from: Mobius on September 10, 2013, 08:36:47 AM

August deliveries is what we are talking about! Your right. You are not punin, so stop talking for him.

no, we are talking about you trying to get some sample hardware before all customers are served with existing/working software solution.

I paid for my August order! Which currently sits in Dave's Datacenter hashing away.

Then ask for a refund or STFU?

You complain more than a schoolgirl in PMS.

I will explain this to you in simple terms, so that a 5th grader can understand.

Quote from: buzzdave on August 13, 2013, 01:37:50 PM

Guys - Les received the boards today and ... they have a problem. The fab dropped 2 of our layers, producing a 2-layer PCB (no internal interconnects). We identified the problem immediately, got it fixed, and the fab is now expediting new PCBs on a 5-day turn. We are seeking to expedite each additional step this is going to take, but we *will* lose 3 - 5 days here (and 10's of thousands of $$$)

Steps we are taking:
-2-day turn verification rig in production now
-send a team member to China to in-person test this rig
-expedite all stages of PCB production, assembly & delivery

Since we will be right up against our retail delivery timeframe, we are going to have to use the 100TH boards for filling retail product. Due to this, Tytus has announced an increased hashrate supply to our 100TH investors of 200TH total, to be deployed in the next two months cumulatively (not all at once at the end).

We are as upset at the delay/fakap as you are I'm sure. This is one of the side affects of pushing such a fast track project, but we are making it right. Believe me we want this stuff hashing as much as anyone and we are pulling out all the stops to get it done.

This states that Dave will use the boards from the 100TH project to fulfill retail delivery and that the 100TH project will be delayed and be increased to 200TH.

Quote from: buzzdave on August 13, 2013, 02:50:03 PM

Quote from: mdbssm on August 13, 2013, 02:47:51 PM

Quote from: superduh on August 13, 2013, 02:37:35 PM

100th->200th would make these retail miners less valuable - sigh
it'd be nice for a discount or price drop based on this - we'll see

Very true. He does say a 'cumulative' roll out over 2 months, so let's hope the bulk is towards the end of the 2 month window.

We will get retail boards out before the 100TH -> 200TH begins to build up. It will happen fast though, once the retail kits are out the door. It was bound to happen anyway, somewhere on the network...

I'm still planning on producing rev 2 M-boards domestically, similar to what Niko is doing, so it shouldn't change your plans with respect to powering the boards.

Here dave restates that retail boards will be sent out before 100TH -> 200TH begins to build up.

Quote from: buzzdave on August 14, 2013, 11:28:28 AM

Quote from: yuriygeorge on August 14, 2013, 09:53:53 AM

Quote from: buzzdave on August 13, 2013, 01:37:50 PM

but we *will* lose 3 - 5 days here (and 10's of thousands of $$$)

I noticed Dave said 3-5 days we will lose due to the PCB mishap. But on PicoStocks website for 100TH (https://picostocks.com/docs/index/19), they said that it would cause a 1 month delay for 100TH. Did I miss something?

In order to ship our retail product on time, we are going to use 100TH boards. This delays the hashpower for 100TH, which is why we doubled the hashpower offering on that project, now to 200TH.

Stated once more, retail products will ship out before the ramp up to his mining operation.

Yet, as my earlier post shows, he added 50 rigs yesterday to his mining operation, while still having 53 outstanding orders. His mining operation is in direct competition to the retail purchasers of the hardware. The more hash power he puts online the less ROI will occur.

He thinks that compensating people by mining for them while not shipping people out their hardware and instead using it in his mining operation is ok. He stated that if he shipped out the outstanding starter kits, he would not be able to mine with ~800 boards.

Additionally, I will not ask for a refund, there are many ways of making money, and if I choose to sell my starter kit at a profit, I can only do that when it is in my hands.

He needs those boards to mine with, HE made the unilateral decision to keep those boards for his mining operation and compensate with the mining income of four rigs.

So, in simple terms you can understand, by not delivering existing product, he is making 15 times the income than he would have if he had shipped them.

True we may have only made our actual mining income, or resold them for a greater profit that we could mine, we had no choice in the matter after his statements that retail would be delivered first.

His "compensation" of sending us BTC based on our hashrate is one sided as he stands to profit substantially more due to a failure in his supply chain and not delivering product he has on hand.

Now hopefully you will understand where I am coming from.

JaredR26

full member

Activity: 219

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Quote from: klondike_bar on September 10, 2013, 07:23:05 AM

Quote from: Mobius on September 10, 2013, 06:01:35 AM

Quote from: buzzdave on September 09, 2013, 05:37:25 AM

We ran short of M-boards due to the factory shortage of parts I mentioned. I had hoped they would pick up the slack in production, but the break in production was felt last week when the shipment finally arrived from AK customs with no M-boards. According to tracking, we only expect 12 tomorrow. Every starter kit we send out takes 16 slots from the mine. We have 54 starters left to ship.

A cost analysis shows that we would lose over 20TH if we ship out of the mine - taking over 800 cards out of the picture, which does not work well from a financial perspective.

The solution is to dedicate four rigs to a separate mining account and then send each customer their share of the coin once we ship. Of course the customer will not pay a hosting fee or their share of power. I have already repointed the hashpower to this dedicated account: https://www.btcguild.com/api.php?api_key=23fcc6a0f8292fe394b1706da8c0d304.

As soon as we ship these units, we will distribute the coin accordingly. Thanks for your patience on this - please look for an email requesting your payment address before you send it to us.

Best,
Dave

So your using the M-Boards that were allocated to our orders to maintain your mine (I am an share holder) and you have allocated 4 rigs at BTC Guild at the PPS rate (as per the API) with a 7.5% fee((1 / Network Difficulty * 25) - Pool Fee (7.5%) https://www.btcguild.com//index.php?page=support§ion=howamipaid one of the highest pool fees out there).

Seems to me that your failing to walk your talk to ship out August orders before populating your mine. Let us not forget the rigs going to LabRatMining (which I am a shareholder also) which were purchased after most August orders were placed.

Quote

A cost analysis shows that we would lose over 20TH if we ship out of the mine - taking over 800 cards out of the picture, which does not work well from a financial perspective.

This could be considered a grave financial impropriety.

Please enlighten me as to how that is adventurous to us, seems like we are funding the operation of your mine with our equipment and getting paid way less than our own individual strategies. What advantage is that to us, are you sending extra h boards to compensate? Because the BTC payment based on your decisions seems way unfair and you are profiting way more by holding our equipment while the production errors are catching up. Even now, we will not be able to achieve any ROI http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/9373700baf

You apparently have the equipment as per your analysis. I know I paid the full overnight shipping fee for an August starter kit. If your taking 800 cards out of the picture by shipping out our paid for equipment, we are getting Avaloned and your decision to do this without asking those of us waiting for orders is a poor choice.

You were doing so good, what happened to you.

wow, you're right. The pool is PPS with 7.5% fees, which is absolutely insane. furthermore, the current hashrate looks to be around 18Ghash per starter kit (if there are 54 as claimed). I don't mind my order being hosted until more m-borads show up, but i feel like the choice of pool and bare minimum of hardware allocated to it (i saw it get as high as 27Ghash and less than 18Ghash, which indicates it is at a loss compared with the starter kits' extra EOL card that ensures 25-35Ghash for those already up and running at home)

People who are mining with starter kits at home are producing almost 150% the bitcoins that this hosting does because of the >=25Ghash speeds and low fee pools available (seriously, 7.5%?)

I respect everything you've done dave, but this is a pretty blatant mistake. Punin shipped every single august order within about 3 days using extra h-boards and V2 M-boards. Hopefully we can get an update soon

Hi guys. I am working with Dave in some capacities. We do not want customers to feel slighted by the decision not to ship M-boards we had on hand. In this case, we were forced to consider the small impact of shipping M-boards to customers who we can compensate versus the very large impact on the other customer of MegaBigPower(100TH/s mine) who we could not compensate for the loss. I discussed these issues with him, and he has cleared the following:

We will pay out based on the theoretical maximum hash rate that the boards would have produced at 25 GH/s, starting from the time we had the M-boards ready to ship, but decided not to ship them. We will calculate this based on the following formula:

( Number of 1-difficulty shares produced over the duration * per-block output ) divided by difficulty at the time they were produced.

By my calculation, 25 GH/s should produce a theoretical 502,800 1-diff shares per day or 5.8194 1-diff shares per second. We will count the per-block output as 25.3125 BTC, where 0.3125 BTC is a good high estimate of the fees included on blocks today. We will not charge a fee or power cost on this.

This is a short-term solution while we have a shortage of M-boards. As soon as the M-board shortage is rectified, which should be in a few weeks at the latest, we will ship the remaining orders to customers.

We hope that this resolves the issue in your minds. We are focused on providing the best customer service we can, and that includes making smart decisions for the 100TH mine customer, who are also severely affected by these delays.

In addition, Dave informed me that only 36 orders have not shipped, not the 54 he mentioned before. As Dave said, the team is working 14 hour days nearly 7 days a week to get these issues resolved. Even last weekend when the team went home for a weekend break, someone was working both Saturday and Sunday. We also have more people coming on board soon to continue making rapid progress on all of the difficulties that arise from this type of work.

E

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Activity: 234

Merit: 100

Quote from: spiccioli on September 10, 2013, 03:34:19 AM

Quote from: E on September 09, 2013, 05:18:12 PM

But, more to your point, pencil mod to achieve 0.74Vdd at the lowest voltage chip plus heatsink on back of board under regulator thermal vias. Stratum proxies running on external (fast) host; chainminer recompiled with

Code:

-Ofast -march=armv6zk -mfloat-abi=hard -mfpu=vfp -fno-strict-aliasing

instead of the default optimization flags. No manual chip tuning at this point. Estimate ~80% of the increase is due to the Vdd change, but I'm not going to slow things down to take better measurements

I will note that if this were achievable on all 16 cards the full kit would be >550GH/s!

Care to share a photo of your modded boards?

spiccioli

Sure, when I get a chance -- but there's not much to see other than a line of graphite on a resistor and a tab of metal stuck to the back of the board

E

full member

Activity: 234

Merit: 100

Quote from: darkfriend77 on September 10, 2013, 02:35:14 AM

Quote from: E on September 09, 2013, 04:56:07 PM

Woohoo - got my starter kit out of billing-address limbo!

Aaand...

Quote

Hashrate 1hr 34665 Mh/s

At the pool!!

38W at the wall on 120V, which seems pretty good given how lightly I'm loading the PS (Corsair TX750).

I have some tips to improve performance on the software side that I'm collecting as I roll them out here;
I've got my pi's load average down to 0.10 and total CPU utilization at ~5% with only two shares rejected in the last hour.

What's your noncerate at web-gui?

Roughly 31 to 35GH/s; hashrate from .stat.log ~37GH/s:

Code:

1       AIfDSo  55      2.606   2.325   182     10      0       0       220     [0:0]   95      11 10 12 12 11 10 11 12 12 12 12 11 11 12 12 11         1 2 0 0 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1
2       AIfDSo  55      2.133   2.294   149     10      0       0       217     [0:1]   121     10 8 9 10 10 10 8 9 8 9 9 10 9 10 10 10         0 2 1 0 0 0 2 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
3       AIfDSo  55      2.190   2.262   153     10      0       0       214     [0:2]   130     11 9 10 10 9 10 10 10 9 9 9 10 9 8 9 11         0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 2 2 0
4       AIfDSo  55      2.577   2.431   180     15      0       0       230     [0:3]   94      11 11 11 12 12 12 12 11 10 12 9 12 11 10 12 12  1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 2 0 3 0 1 2 0 0
5       AIfDSo  55      2.133   2.325   149     14      0       0       220     [0:4]   99      9 10 10 9 9 9 10 9 8 9 8 9 10 10 11 9   1 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 0 1
6       AIfDSo  55      2.434   2.399   170     9       1       0       227     [0:5]   100     10 10 11 10 11 11 10 10 11 10 10 11 11 11 11 12         2 2 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
7       AIfDSo  55      2.004   2.378   140     22      0       0       225     [0:6]   150     8 10 9 9 9 8 10 10 9 9 9 9 7 8 9 7      2 0 1 2 2 2 0 0 1 1 1 1 3 2 1 3
8       AIfDSo  55      2.319   2.357   162     11      0       0       223     [0:7]   89      9 10 10 10 10 10 9 10 11 11 11 10 10 10 11 10   1 0 1 1 1 1 2 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0
9       AIfDSo  55      2.491   2.547   174     13      0       0       241     [0:8]   104     12 10 11 11 11 11 9 11 12 11 9 10 11 11 12 12   0 2 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 1 3 2 1 1 0 0
10      AIfDSo  55      2.062   2.272   144     18      0       0       215     [0:9]   133     10 9 9 10 10 8 8 11 10 9 9 10 7 7 9 8   0 1 1 0 0 2 2 0 1 1 1 0 3 3 1 2
11      AIfDSo  55      2.362   2.410   165     15      0       0       228     [0:A]   112     10 11 10 11 11 12 10 11 11 10 10 10 9 8 10 11   1 0 2 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 2 3 1 0
12      AIfDSo  55      1.990   2.220   139     10      0       0       210     [0:B]   135     8 9 8 9 9 7 8 7 7 9 9 10 10 10 10 9     1 0 1 0 0 2 1 2 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
13      AIfDSo  55      2.004   2.315   140     16      0       0       219     [0:C]   92      8 10 10 9 9 8 9 8 9 9 8 10 10 9 7 7     1 0 0 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 2 0 0 0 2 2
14      AIfDSo  55      1.790   2.146   125     5       0       0       203     [0:D]   207     9 9 8 6 7 7 8 8 8 8 7 8 8 8 8 8         0 0 0 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
15      AIfDSo  55      1.689   1.945   118     7       0       0       184     [0:E]   139     8 7 6 7 7 7 8 7 7 8 8 8 8 7 7 8         0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0
16      AIfDSo  55      1.346   2.505   94      84      0       0       237     [0:F]   381     5 4 7 4 7 9 8 7 6 4 3 6 4 8 4 8         7 7 4 7 4 2 3 4 5 7 8 5 7 3 7 4
speed:880 noncerate[GH/s]:34.131 (2.133/chip) hashrate[GH/s]:37.131 good:2384 errors:269 spi-err:1 miso-err:0 jobs:375 cores:82% good:16 bad:0 off:0 (best[GH/s]:33.615) Tue Sep 10 23:33:02 2013
0:      880     34.131  37.131  2384    269     1       0       16      0       0       (2.133/chip)    82%

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: murraypaul on September 10, 2013, 06:00:36 PM

On the other hand, you sold items and said they would be delivered in August, and it is now a third of the way through September, and some people haven't got them. It is reasonable of them to feel that you haven't delivered on your promises. Especially as you have diverted hardware that could have gone to them to another part of your business.

You got it backwards. He diverted hardware from his other business to mine for delayed orders.

arorts

sr. member

Activity: 408

Merit: 250

Quote from: murraypaul on September 10, 2013, 06:00:36 PM

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait.

On the other hand, you sold items and said they would be delivered in August, and it is now a third of the way through September, and some people haven't got them. It is reasonable of them to feel that you haven't delivered on your promises. Especially as you have diverted hardware that could have gone to them to another part of your business.
This isn't a backorder situation, where people are buying now and know the units aren't available, it was a preorder situation with a delivery promise.

Yes, except for the fact that he's providing some BTC payout alternative given the circumstances. Hence your "haven't delivered" claim is not totally applicable.

murraypaul

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait.

On the other hand, you sold items and said they would be delivered in August, and it is now a third of the way through September, and some people haven't got them. It is reasonable of them to feel that you haven't delivered on your promises. Especially as you have diverted hardware that could have gone to them to another part of your business.
This isn't a backorder situation, where people are buying now and know the units aren't available, it was a preorder situation with a delivery promise.

arorts

sr. member

Activity: 408

Merit: 250

Quote from: americandesi on September 10, 2013, 04:54:08 PM

......And you must have known by now that mining is no longer a ROI game....

"Mining is no longer a ROI game" ? ? ?

What is it about then these days? Just another, new money-losing hobby?

Cablez

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...

@AD - I don't think that is completely true considering Dave has made all of one statement about this whole deal. My interpretation is that the late starter kits will get this extra coin because of the large delay of M-boards but the later full kits that are supposed to be shipped 'soon' will not benefit in any way. At this point only Dave can correct this statement.

As for buying 'late', that is not really an excuse either. The batch was all labeled for 'August delivery' and included the price premium as such. There was no tiered pricing within the batch making it more accommodating to anyone. It just leads to more pressure as time goes by. Less than 900 blocks to go for the next punch to the face by the way.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: E on September 10, 2013, 03:32:57 PM

...
Kano -- I'm on your side re: cgminer, but you don't need to drag my rate estimation into the picture XD
When I say things like "That's probably a fluctuation on the high side" and "I should report it as 34500 +/- 2500" do you honestly think I haven't considered the vagaries of various speed estimates?

Ah, I guess I shouldn't have even replied to this because I know you just needed a conversational node to bring up your lack of access to hardware. Do you want ssh access to my bitfury? 'Cause you can have it if you want...
...

Yes it is as you said, why I replied to your post originally

... and I guess this reply will explain that I want hardware not remote access and why.

I've said this often before, but I want hardware to be able to support it ... and I'm not interested in providing free support to people who are using it to make a profit ... and I certainly don't want to be losing BTC to support hardware.

Interestingly enough, I haven't so far with any - and that list isn't small IMO: Icarus, BFL FPGA, ModMinerQuad, BlackArrow Lancelot, BFL SC, AsicMInerUSB, BitBurner, Klondike, I even finally got a Cairnsmore1 yesterday after all this time ... but not from Enterpoint

It really is all pretty straight forward, people provide hardware, and we add support for it to the master cgminer.
My annoyance with the ASIC chip companies is that they want to make a profit from us directly for providing support for their hardware i.e. they want US to pay for the support we do for THEIR hardware ... they profit from us and we lose BTC in the process.

This is true of the ASIC chip companies: Avalon, AsicMiner ... and BitFury now ... ... ... but I'm sure to the chagrin of many, not BFL with their first gen chip ...

With the BitFury hardware appearing, I finally had some BTC (thanks to BFL supporting developers) to consider paying for some hardware.
So seeing yet again, another company wanting US to pay for THEIR support I thought, OK, I'm screwed if I don't get some more hardware due to the way difficulty is rising ... I'll probably have to switch off everything in the near future unless I can keep a reasonable hash rate ... especially all the non-ASIC hardware that I run (now at a loss) to keep supporting it
So I asked one of them, for whom I had recently added something to cgminer at their personal request (for no BTC), to BUY hardware from them.
The answer ended up being no coz they considered cgminer support from us not necessary (ironic?) ... so I asked to buy chips, since there is a local BitFury DIY to me ... I got no reply ... odd ...
I also replied to Punin (... yes, replied, I didn't start that conversation ...) that I wanted hardware that would pay itself off in a month (i.e. I set a relative price I'd be willing to pay for it) so that I wasn't losing out doing the support ... I've got no reply since that either ...

So basically, it seems that getting cgminer support is of no interest to BitFury ...

The first DIY to actually get cgminer support may be BarnTech here in Sydney where I live, if he manages to actually get BitFury chips in the not too distant future ... though the 500% price jump in BitFury chips has me wondering what's going to happen next ...

So, yeah, I'm not really impressed much with BitFury now either ...

americandesi

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

BTC < > INR & USD

Quote from: KIDC on September 10, 2013, 05:03:30 PM

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait. I have taken steps to set aside hardware that will run on the behalf of customers in order to reduce their pain of waiting. Of course I'm not running PPS at 7%, that's ridiculous. Its PPLNS @ 3%. If you have a problem with the pool fee, then let us know what your pool is and we'll make sure you get the 1 - 2% more coin. If you want your share of NMC mined - whatever, send me an address.

Am I understanding this correctly? MBP is compensating for delays by running the equivalent hashrate for customers and then paying out when hardware ships? This is unprecedented in this industry and is to be commended. Can you imagine a scenario where BFL would do the same? Or anybody else? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is a major Good Thing. Credit where credit is due.

You are right. There was a messup by the pcb manufacturer recently due to which M-Boards are being delayed.
So they are mining for us since the weekend (not charging power cost etc) and we will get the earnings accordingly when our hardware ships.

I agree. Offer credit to a person when its due and this needs to be said. I hope butterfly labs guys are reading this.

KIDC

member

Activity: 80

Merit: 10

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait. I have taken steps to set aside hardware that will run on the behalf of customers in order to reduce their pain of waiting. Of course I'm not running PPS at 7%, that's ridiculous. Its PPLNS @ 3%. If you have a problem with the pool fee, then let us know what your pool is and we'll make sure you get the 1 - 2% more coin. If you want your share of NMC mined - whatever, send me an address.

Am I understanding this correctly? MBP is compensating for delays by running the equivalent hashrate for customers and then paying out when hardware ships? This is unprecedented in this industry and is to be commended. Can you imagine a scenario where BFL would do the same? Or anybody else? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is a major Good Thing. Credit where credit is due.

-Redacted-

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 501

Quote from: buzzdave on September 10, 2013, 03:54:39 PM

I guess this is the world we live in. My team has been working 14 hour days trying to test and ship hardware to customers while also growing the mining operations. I have been totally transparent in what is going on here as well as my plans and approach to dealing with challenges on multiple levels, while keeping it fair to the customers & investors.

In all other retail businesses, if a backordered situation exists, you will just wait. I have taken steps to set aside hardware that will run on the behalf of customers in order to reduce their pain of waiting. Of course I'm not running PPS at 7%, that's ridiculous. Its PPLNS @ 3%. If you have a problem with the pool fee, then let us know what your pool is and we'll make sure you get the 1 - 2% more coin. If you want your share of NMC mined - whatever, send me an address.

Most of realize the situation, and are very thankful for your work, transparency, professionalism, and your efforts to do the right thing for all concerned.

Perhaps psjw4450 should PM you for a refund if he is so unhappy and so concerned about making ROI. Might be better for all concerned that way...

Oh - that would mean an August rig freed up and available for sale, right? Or a starter and 15 hashing cards??

Topic: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING*** - page 142. (Read 576785 times)

Topic: [ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK NOW SHIPPING - page 142. (Read 576785 times)