Topic: [ANN] ✰ WhaleMixer.com ✰ Mixer That Dispense Freshly Mined Coins - page 7. (Read 2401 times)

I'm a dog with a bone, not a genius
I'm trying to protect this community, that's all...

By the way: you're telling me you thank me for the analysis, but don't address the main issue that was proven by this analysis....


Okay... Let me give you the ELI5(~ish), TL;DR; version...
Let me be clear from the start: I found a flaw in the safety of your mixing. I kindly discuss. This is more important to you than (well... you never said than what it was more important). Anyways, it's important to me to protect the community, so that should be enough motivation. Please read in full and understand my findings and questions before you answer... If not, your answer will be incomplete or unfunded.

Please, respond giving evidence... Tell me where i'm wrong... Show me the flaws in my way of thinking... Point out where exactly you have those fresh coins... I'm not a deity, i can make mistakes... I can overlook things, i can make calculation errors, i can have wrong assumptions... My script can have bugs, my graphs can be incorrectly interpreted. It's up to you (the business owner) to point out these flaws in order to regain the trust of your potential customers and not drive them away with smoke and mirrors. Since we're working with a technology that's clear, open source and well described, you should be able to do so using hard facts.

My concrete questions... could you answer them to stop this discussion once and for all?:

• Do you stand by your claim that says you're providing fresh coins?
• Do you understand that, in the bitcoin world, fresh means: "coming from a coinbase reward"?
• Is TryNinja telling the truth when he posted the withdrawal transaction id?
• Do you see a flaw in my logic when i dug 5000 of the closest transactions funding TryNinja's output and only found 2 very distant coinbase rewards adding allmost nothing?
• Do you see a flaw in my logic when i calculated that only 0,000000000000000019% of the value funding TryNinja's "clean" addresses comes from a coinbase reward from the 5000 closest transactions funding those clean addresses?
• Are you still unwilling to let your partners prove they are real miners by mining a block using a new address as a coinbase reward without adding an identifying OP_RETURN and sign a message using this new address (so there is no way to identify them?)
• Last time, i identified the 2 blocks that could very remotely be linked to TryNinja's output to be coming from 1THash&58COIN. Are they your partners?
• Apparently, in a PM to Vod, you claimed to have "a way of sending coin without revealing the sending address". If this is true, you should share the technical details... If it's just security trough obscurity you are NOT protecting your clients. Only by sharing technical details, we can asses if the method you claim to have discovered is valid, and will keep on protecting your clients in the future. If you are unwilling to give the method, i can only assume it does not exist, or it's a method that will sooner or later be discovered by others that can then use it to de-anonimise your past clients
• Do you understand that, when you say you have 50 BTC but proof nothing, we are a big sceptical?
• Do you understand that, when you say you have 50 BTC but your site tells us you have >5000 BTC, you are putting complete trust in the hands of your partners? What if somebody initialises a 100 BTC mix and your partner's api is not completely working (or then ran away), you'll be standing there unable to provide a mix eventough you promised to do so?
• Once again: are you the developer or are you defending somebody else's script?
• Once again: do you understand all the technical details of your operations or did you pay somebody else to do it for you?
• Once again: why are the security headers not yet fixed
• Why do you run an nginx version with known vulnerability's
• Why do you include external javascript

So, here's the TL;DR; part:

• We are talking about bitcoin.
• Bitcoin uses a decentral ledger that contains (in parsable form) an unambiguous list of transactions. Each transaction uses unspent outputs as an input and creates new unspent outputs as an output (unless it's a coinbase transaction, this one only creates a new unspent output without having an input). This creates a possibility to follow the trail of unspent outputs BACK to the "fresh coins".
• It's ALWAYS possible to follow the trail of unspent outputs back to the point of the coinbase transactions... if an unspent output is still in the UTXO, it might (in some cases) technically be possible to hide who will be able to spend this utxo, but once it's spent we can always follow the trail
• I dug 5000 hops deep from the transaction funding TryNinja's mixing output¹⁺². You promise fresh coins, 5000 is waaaaay over the top, but my initial tests with a reasonable amount of hops turned up nothing interesting so i dug deeper... I'd expect fresh coins to pop up a maximum of 3 or 4 steps away if you're saying they're fresh.... Mind you: steps... Aging does NOT come into play. Satoshi's addresses were funded with coinbase rewards >10 years ago. If he's spend those coinbase rewards today, there would only be 1 step between the coinbase reward and the address funded by spending the coinbase reward eventough the coinbase reward was added to the utxo set 10 years ago. Aging is not a factor here.
• I was able to proof that there were only 2 coinbase transactions in these 5000 hops, they were 17!!!!! steps away.
• 2 coinbase transactions in 5000 hops 17 steps away is NOT good... As a reference, i scanned 500 hops for the last transaction funding my own public address, and i found 47 coinbase transactions, some of them 6!!!! steps away³. Mind you: this wasn't result of a mix or some promise to get payed with "fresh" coins... It was just a signature payment (IIRC), so i'd even expect the coins to be "dirtyer" than "average" coins (yeah, i know, dirtyer and cleaner are just terms... fungibility is the key here, but still a promise of fresh coins is a promise of fresh coins).  Also, realise that for your funds i went 10x deeper, so I should have turned up 10 times more, not 23 times less coinbase transactions.
• A small calculation can proof⁴ that ony 0,000000000000000019% of TryNinja's funds could VERY remotely be linked with a coinbase transaction in the 5000 closest transactions leading up to his transaction. Don't tell me this is by design. If your mixer created hundreds of transactions to hide the source of the funds for just a handfull of clients, you wouldn't be charging a 3% fee. Each of these hops has a price, both in tx fees, hardware resources and time... No way you tumbled these funds hundreds of times to payout a couple clients.
• Sure, if i'd go 50.000 or 100.000 hops, or 10.000.000 hops, we'd probably end up with a lot of coinbase transactions... But it would be more than a stretch to call them "fresh". When the network started, there was nothing. Every unspent output can ultimately be traced back to a coinbase reward if you dig deep enough... This doesn't mean they are "fresh" tough

Now, once again: i'm not saying that your mixer is bad per sé... I'm just saying that many of your claims (like the "fresh coins" claim) are provably false or at least very shaky and unproven (not unprovable, but unproven)...
Sure, there is fungability, and the most important part of a mixer is breaking the link between two wallets. It's very well possible your mixer is doing exactly this... I didn't dig into those transactions funding your output wallet... I have focussed on the "fresh coins" promise, and i think i succesfully proved this is not the case.
A 5000 node search should have turned up more than 0,000000000000000019% of the funds coming from a coinbase reward. If you'd open up a bar and you used the same percentage to dilute your whiskey, you'd be filling a bathtub (158 liters) with tap water and then adding  0.03 femtoliter of whiskey... That's basically just opening a whiskey bottle a couple of centimers above the water surface and closing it up right away... Do you think your customers would be happy if they ordered a whiskey and they got a small glass of water from a bottle that has been standing next to a whiskey bottle for a couple of hours? I, for one, wouldn't be to happy about this, even if you said that all water was once whiskey that got pissed out and filtered by nature at one point in it's life, or if you started to explain how exactly you opened the whiskey bottle and how long it stood next to the water bottle before you sold me tap water as being whiskey...

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Details:
Source 1
here's the sourcecode of the script I wrote, so you can check it out for yourself:
https://github.com/mocacinno/howfarfromcoinbase/


Source 2
a nice graph showing just how far those coinbase rewards are from TryNinja's withdrawal... Mind you: everything not in the path between the coinbase rewards and the withdrawal tx has been pruned:
Tryninja-coinbase
(the image is so big i decided to create a link)


Source 3
As a comparison: the last unspent output funding my public address... Uncleaned, no promises of "fresh" coins. Mind you: everything not in the path between the coinbase rewards and the withdrawal tx has been pruned:
mocacinno-coinbase
(the image is so big i decided to create a link)


Source 4
Now, compare it to
tx bdfbfee25cd935abb128fc632faa9a105d0ae7b6d1ab32b8cc15e452ce2372af spends the coinbase unspent outputs:
IN : 30.40966025 BTC
IN(coinbase): 13,44039925 BTC
%(coinbase) = 13,44039925/30.40966025 = 44,2%
We continue with the unspent output funding address 3FToeoKAHiPPGmPP3V61JukhVkGttyWsau with 0.02090359 BTC
This means, 0.02090359 * 0.442 = 0.01 BTC is coming from the coinbase rewards at this point (and i'm rounding upwards here...)

the next tx: 9a2ec09aa7ada4c581e8b36d5ff56e09b784c547d7e11e9b8d01d03b5fa145e6
IN : 9.73792545 BTC
IN(coinbase): 0.01 BTC
%(coinbase) = 0.01/9.73792545 = 0,00103%
We continue with the unspent output funding address bc1q6f7usdrwhldsmjlagyw3xqxlm5r30ac8vzuds3 with 0.00721000 BTC
This means, 0.00721000 * 0,0000103 = 0,0000000743 BTC is coming from the coinbase rewards at this point (and i'm rounding upwards here...)

the next tx: 60efc87dd0d3630b24f12785aae3eaac05e494f6e98a9e54d295c0f6e1ae366f
IN : 0.00679735 BTC
IN(coinbase): 0,0000000743 BTC
%(coinbase) = 0,0000000743/0.00721000= 0.0000103%
We continue with the unspent output funding address bc1q386274dh4ggx8qh4xplwevk3s406dpk6xasqpq with 0.00002130 BTC
This means, 0.00002130* 0.000000103 = 0.0000000000022BTC is coming from the coinbase rewards at this point (and i'm rounding upwards here...)

the next tx: bf080035ff8f7106f2efb2cbbc67a0f0492da7848d3e89525d6b818b43662fd8
IN : 0.00679735 BTC
IN(coinbase): 0.0000000000022 BTC
%(coinbase) = 0.0000000000022/0.00679735= 0.000000000324%
We continue with the unspent output funding address 39yNZHRzKESkjkNXeHswW5FM7U74Ns3r7K with 0.00630000 BTC
This means, 0.00630000 * 0.00000000000324= 0.0000000000000205BTC is coming from the coinbase rewards at this point (and i'm rounding upwards here...)


the next tx: 33e5ba37967cd58803f2590eb7654ad52e16ba47563d2585fa163f46f04c290a
IN : 10.93865414 BTC
IN(coinbase): 0.0000000000000205 BTC
%(coinbase) = 0.0000000000000205 /10.93865414 = 0.0000000000000019%
We continue with the unspent output funding address bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.11585090 BTC
This means, 1.11585090 * 0,000000000000000019= 0.0000000000000000212 BTC is coming from the coinbase rewards at this point (and i'm rounding upwards here...)

the next tx: 18a6e8f710c4940fee550d391a0d6866f28d055e4c64ba9345a911b46500f485
IN :
1.14340176 BTC
IN(coinbase): 0.0000000000000000212  BTC
%(coinbase) = 0,0000000000000000212 /1.14340176= 0.000000000000000019%
We continue with the unspent output funding address bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.09772462 BTC
This means, 1.11585090 * 0,00000000000000000019= 0.000000000000000000212 BTC is coming from the coinbase rewards at this point (and i'm rounding upwards here...)

At this point, the unspent output funding bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq is being recycled and recycled... So the %coinbase remains the same @0,000000000000000019%
This goes on to the transaction paying TryNinja... So TryNinja received 99,999999999999999981% coins that are hundreds of nodes away from any coinbase transaction and you tell us you're using fresh coins....

WOW you really did a intensive analysis on this transaction.

Thank you for the analysis

You are a true genius

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Despite wild accusation that we are holding 5000 btc or not holding 5000 btc,

and our coins quality ,

We dispense fresh mined coins , aged and new coins mixed within our ecosystem . We do not mix with clients coins. We are not a mixer rather fresh coin dispenser which truly cuts the trail from blockchain forensics

Our customer service will be here to.

Feel free to contact us here , we will reply within 24 hours , 5 days a week

Should you need our attention on SOS basis, you can contact us at [email protected]

However if anyone finds flaws in our safety of our mixing , kindly discuss (This is more important to us and safety of our clients are more important) rather than whether you trust or you dont trust our ability of handling 5000 BTC mixing. We have taken many measures to ensure safety of our clients however we will continue to keep it secured to be the best fresh coin dispenser on this planet, so good that mixing will be so last generation

---

Today is an amazing day  .

Whalemixer.com has received record number of mixing  .

This is our highest volume mixing since launched  .

We would like to thank everyone that's supporting our system and many more to come  .

much much much love to our beloved clients  .



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

So... After a huge search.... I DID find a couple coinbase transactions. I assumed i'd find some, after all, every trace has to end with a coinbase transaction (per defenition), so if you search long enough, you're bound to find one eventually...
Before you jump into the air and tell me you were right all along, skip to the bottom for my conclusion...

I had to plow trough 313900 outputs (i can post them if you want), but i found 2 coinbase transactions that can be linked remotely to TryNinja's output:
transaction 8def694164f5fc811041738f3db4518f21078cc112a7acb4cdd806c9942c469a is a coinbase transaction funding address 147SwRQdpCfj5p8PnfsXV2SsVVpVcz3aPq with 6.96556045 BTC
transaction 6cc2919828a42560696e173577b9adfa7a0dabc7fb35143856b9210eb331b4b3 is a coinbase transaction funding address 147SwRQdpCfj5p8PnfsXV2SsVVpVcz3aPq with 6.47483880 BTC

both unspent outputs are merged with a thirth one (>10 BTC) and  spent in transaction bdfbfee25cd935abb128fc632faa9a105d0ae7b6d1ab32b8cc15e452ce2372af funding:
1MQgJCTEvxE17hnQgjR1QYzpgLEWjRX5zw with 0.00501127 BTC
14UeiGPDfPiBuhc6jXrcBR8ntS1SfCWUBa with 0.00512741 BTC
3Psydwi2jcn1g4jfkYHfoZ9wZPjjm9Sjj7 with 0.00516750 BTC
3Hmga8nbWxE34MuaXYn8RQjzLAtiNsj2ZQ with 0.00520982 BTC
34E4k6Xqp78UnzZgkcEdE4pxeXzFg7yEWq with 0.00521250 BTC
1Fve39anikQgaVKedQKAtLyuWX9bLDWnV7 with 0.00524362 BTC
1NDwNwjzy4tX6ZFn2T69JYMjPvuBgezkm7 with 0.00524362 BTC
19E6roGm5tCyD6AFkdHiVEhVBH7jDmDg4C with 0.00524968 BTC
3HMArbkQicJ7rQCqsxKh5jiad7Pana3zkM with 0.00525150 BTC
1PP4RvShCV7xFxZqDCxAa6xAJLDHuFZKUy with 0.00540578 BTC
1EJtJjf6Vu2cScP8uQYSjmwkazji5GGZ6d with 0.00540578 BTC
1KPHGbJZoSuBp41sAUB1WZHFFxfpUt2yLL with 0.00543816 BTC
1C5x8ffRrvUrxVrvtDcYBjCNoGM9kbH6uz with 0.00559730 BTC
1Pzrca66w4RwW6FcAdvh28nNtXX9manBZa with 0.00562635 BTC
18KgNkD4rjW4cEzwWZMxCj4DHUY9yhp1xg with 0.00839326 BTC
15L3z1fWhXk42sEbqdfoqY5mog1bnFHDYH with 0.01007898 BTC
1LQHiawVEPUXtHvrd8T4ok6QhJhZVN5phd with 0.01025409 BTC
15a31zVR1WwUjqsPoq1TtnGLaoYTLB3iig with 0.01065146 BTC
34oqXGWjPTpyoaXAkTgiQaDUphZaWKoEU2 with 0.01067721 BTC
12ePzbhQ1QkNLDbggpWGtNbB4twU3mBV4w with 0.01070690 BTC
3C91jAH4k1YLaHcushcKX6Pi6V9hcAqRAt with 0.01087643 BTC
3Nq3zkbP7aYndSGXRXmhVh1NnFPjD5tCEZ with 0.01095148 BTC
3GS2b9MZYUPsC2txrLFE7mJ4AZ27NPCciK with 0.01119629 BTC
3FiaietwfudsceKtaF8R4ePq1UbsCVxmAV with 0.01119629 BTC
1F5HEa6hLcBAVugvzjs7jbtzTACSxfNgrp with 0.01119629 BTC
1NsW6UaJpVkdx514iAY12BtWUjMjayBH5A with 0.01119629 BTC
1NhAEP5anBsctjqHipwwYY9wHbQMJoCK5u with 0.01138206 BTC
1Gx8X4hD3v6ez9dYUcqRvFeXMAGdaGcV92 with 0.01171708 BTC
1ML3WNk1baBB93GhMeLVh2e1eBKLUdPRp7 with 0.01367560 BTC
14tkX1Kqvd1N3oyiCjMPcNkXLDJVXtt9Wk with 0.01380522 BTC
1PseYvD11DjqXqAZX4tJAKxJheVdtUbhQS with 0.01547518 BTC
1Cin6NH9AbfDsSzk8AtzJb4sUs3VQBYEFA with 0.01612188 BTC
1Fxof3ieRisPuwAWrxBRQzqnx1ATTFxQ5S with 0.01612474 BTC
1JrecstpYy4FySLtgioTNbPXP71kJFPE4F with 0.01692190 BTC
1MVeoxyHnWTbfVpomrmDmu9e4A8r8Qynfm with 0.02003738 BTC
3FToeoKAHiPPGmPP3V61JukhVkGttyWsau with 0.02090359 BTC
138Cx6a4xmrfJX9SdryQtPacrPZwM9VAqD with 0.02483641 BTC
1JZxcGkoha6X1wSZNZEQ7BmpTm1SwrYoVa with 0.02946865 BTC
349guFMvdxY1UNcNLpbMrXkVnzfFyZuzPS with 0.03341718 BTC
37AtakbqF25Cngm1CSRiBx5gfjSnqDtC2H with 0.03893783 BTC
1MwJqkVZHGubrJ81X7o5fbgS4WYRr2o87r with 0.04328409 BTC
1F78SCR7DdizX1butsL7yxpYZXfVdPfmU9 with 0.04357264 BTC
13421KktHanJycg4nWkUMjM8B9vTCxBxWP with 0.04561205 BTC
15BPohaEyFQFvvMiSmeVYLdDhybdtTVyUR with 0.05359435 BTC
18PjNagRQkfQxUmY9Fo38F92QyFVvV4aXo with 0.05366102 BTC
17pXe5gAhSy9aaagKDP9dYVXhbjP4onuAN with 0.05664444 BTC
32ctGhN8rCwYNG6uGR49AbJHfs7S9ArUYf with 0.06720418 BTC
157mPXB4E1rUjt5g3ZdqCXA6uwqhebkZAZ with 0.07712358 BTC
1CRvGBxu1qMiCEVzAiZKrYV8hYuMqa1yM9 with 0.20542902 BTC
12ssutCnF1fVd7cBiQWLUxWAxoiaVdsE3u with 0.00000822 BTC
1BMjmWXy7hnYnJwCY1GYUsL9Ya9WdVZyTW with 29.27911400 BTC

3FToeoKAHiPPGmPP3V61JukhVkGttyWsau was funded with 0.02090359 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 9a2ec09aa7ada4c581e8b36d5ff56e09b784c547d7e11e9b8d01d03b5fa145e6.
This transaction merges 10 unspent outputs, some of witch have a value of > 9 BTC. So, the unspent output funding 3FToeoKAHiPPGmPP3V61JukhVkGttyWsau is neglectible... but still following addresses get funded:
bc1qncma32m7v7w9a28pwt4ks0gtqqmzqvh4j7yslh with 0.00111097 BTC
1BxZA5hKyYKkw1jgmVN4JjeF6aF31thjoy with 0.00121535 BTC
31iNgVe4Nk8UtVwRJmnsANGyKSmJkt3Sup with 0.00187000 BTC
3MUCTbBkJKUwvGKyzN5k7QjDD7sUZ4TjmA with 0.00203000 BTC
3MZV3vaX6rcjeLPQs8KMan85cYkGQZHeHH with 0.00247000 BTC
3KqMjyPEWLCo5f1pJE1NEzp1VDeocs7A8s with 0.00253285 BTC
1SDfw3JTJsRgvLwuZr1Hyc3c8mPFkUwaM with 0.00288000 BTC
1F99adPu7RDzWfWb6knbRgzPa4LdiFR8se with 0.00305000 BTC
bc1ql4qu72e77dqwctcvxl2ky04lmfmuvd95neexr6 with 0.00318126 BTC
3Nfum67ZTa9foM9uATqxVP5hAdLHU6LnqL with 0.00330000 BTC
bc1q7w6u859mxpyv2t39szz97v5ujcvyn2n7grpkr4 with 0.00334599 BTC
bc1qzfm04yrfyethmj6r0dn87yggfm4es9rlh7ue80 with 0.00341000 BTC
3FRypXPdooZRqNbQEy23Za6HMuM14BPEKV with 0.00370323 BTC
3KPqJbAHT74mSUABRv3pGxNyxGJ2y7JKN3 with 0.00395000 BTC
13rygUDJS8qmRtk74JiHUV1quMDiPKbkoF with 0.00406000 BTC
bc1qyxzj4vcwgpf8rx2ygjmsye4juxggqc6al68l0f with 0.00518170 BTC
1CJXd3xEPLANCYDUHqExPbu9DwjamwwU4W with 0.00532000 BTC
1FRtPaviNjPMiXUhQT6F3nvwbkjXkbX4AB with 0.00560000 BTC
bc1qml2zun2r0nry60eajxjqmvutjc2xm96p25e7gg with 0.00611406 BTC
bc1qp9xl93vvlt4pp0t9096ssn9ry46zlcqwv4zr6p with 0.00616000 BTC
179YYG9hd47QZ6AWU5DbXr9gX692xRuzjZ with 0.00652944 BTC
1Nc6TPyLSKAURyBJEZAEXgzP8ZJyjzeSQQ with 0.00695000 BTC
bc1q6f7usdrwhldsmjlagyw3xqxlm5r30ac8vzuds3 with 0.00721000 BTC
37ApUhsMN5BZLUHY4kXNFMGWgMJXT19UiR with 0.00766887 BTC
3QGoj6FTzFiDPJCzQwrQ2YnEiC4cvKfzsj with 0.01027000 BTC
3NPmgExHzypJyxWRKZfgDo2fwBAYGP5HJE with 0.01028000 BTC
bc1q3u8llhemahgsvn6sjkeh4yqgfsu8wg2dx6mj5c with 0.01365248 BTC
3DjkSjsshiEAyEbBs99cyKrp1mPMdeerLh with 0.01426073 BTC
bc1qe8v796sdquswkmhxp4kdaym3g7v78qhmmxzg7s with 0.01480887 BTC
1L8M1RuD2zircusECrWJZzc3gBRTgbpBYT with 0.01643555 BTC
1318NBDhbYLczu6YiguKc9fpgRe4xTrKBs with 0.01667080 BTC
13CoJjQBRjzvnDePQuQvk5MH1UHvEqFR2U with 0.01844079 BTC
bc1ql9nn04klgr272meuhatpcef2jewhydksnfsnwm with 0.02495043 BTC
37Yyq7iJJ5y11n5mDgLGa5fYGH8vqw3L31 with 0.04127425 BTC
32C7ksV9QD2Y352gaEPRhtEt3xL3acBwnS with 0.04526000 BTC
389F8Nj8d1BHAEFN3sgDSbbuq6n5hu8wLd with 0.05309070 BTC
1549qhLjBpsWXoDUFoxPSf81p8LozvVYnY with 0.05826013 BTC
1BTE4ZrscjwSnTrbNuPgWsYBykPKoNjDzx with 0.06259264 BTC
32CDbuHFWQYZKaj7NvvU5m6PEMh2DLFoCj with 0.08521727 BTC
3H3HnhgQNRJ6EK64nguG6Ns3C84FzFNhZD with 0.08579921 BTC
3Q1Fmd3DiqoXCUieCNMpgDrc751Lesv6G5 with 0.09118619 BTC
36rdQi9cW7rhjp9L8r6XvapDrTA4UuyN9a with 0.09296400 BTC
3GdMfVJvXDtzY7t3v7dYzm23RHfLRBfC1H with 0.09961279 BTC
3McvBp1ZpgFQUvtMgpnkz4BxxUjU4ARsW7 with 0.10308730 BTC
3Gk5NXjRr6KYjg88hNJpRXpqKSk5mYF426 with 0.10655585 BTC
3GrBgm9RKHHGt4etdwfjZwK11hAKQQ8s8v with 0.11052300 BTC
3Bi7jWrGMso7EHabPrXbmonv4bmC7FBbyu with 0.11320200 BTC
3JUCSCreEHADF8gBb6av5wjuamYQjtXXGF with 0.12563400 BTC
3NzHAfwLUkPLTb25UA1Ao6DZ4VddQA6ZCD with 0.15607179 BTC
12nbxYHVgVdP4wVF9eoa4vb5bdLrR8yShS with 0.19277000 BTC
3CDsXPsg7d9t3Ah6RUzzVTkCxRvNLWtygT with 0.20055816 BTC
3MkQohaonKcNTJTbSV6HQS4bkT2MeJDn9B with 0.20691671 BTC
34wdNYp6JfWo3qpva8QsJKpEGhCiNjDeqh with 0.30000000 BTC
3GMhMAYiYScUFAXUzDthqkoGh6jBGZjESE with 0.33361896 BTC
1No7Gfb4WMSP83v4UyZcnt47EsqWPh8Wnk with 0.53173408 BTC
3CSCn8vp9JiBSFcYf4EE7p1AvsBgAWFoMs with 6.30097501 BTC

bc1q6f7usdrwhldsmjlagyw3xqxlm5r30ac8vzuds3 was funded with 0.00721000 BTC , this unspent output is used in transaction 60efc87dd0d3630b24f12785aae3eaac05e494f6e98a9e54d295c0f6e1ae366f.
following addresses get funded:
bc1q386274dh4ggx8qh4xplwevk3s406dpk6xasqpq with 0.00002130 BTC
3FKdyA28KPePVCqn7JTeG84yPSgPf3XQa8 with 0.00700000 BTC

bc1q386274dh4ggx8qh4xplwevk3s406dpk6xasqpq was funded with 0.00002130 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction bf080035ff8f7106f2efb2cbbc67a0f0492da7848d3e89525d6b818b43662fd8.
This transaction merges 3 unspent outputs, some of witch have a value of > 300 times the value of the output that can be remotely linked to the coinbase transaction. So, the unspent output funding bc1q386274dh4ggx8qh4xplwevk3s406dpk6xasqpq is neglectible... but still following addresses get funded:
39yNZHRzKESkjkNXeHswW5FM7U74Ns3r7K with 0.00630000 BTC
bc1qtuyyc560nkc64xrzg2hmfs9zfcy08p32knernt with 0.00005535 BTC

39yNZHRzKESkjkNXeHswW5FM7U74Ns3r7K was funded with 0.00630000 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 33e5ba37967cd58803f2590eb7654ad52e16ba47563d2585fa163f46f04c290a.
This transaction merges 21 unspent outputs, some of witch have a value of > 10 BTC. So, the unspent output funding 39yNZHRzKESkjkNXeHswW5FM7U74Ns3r7K is neglectible... but still following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.11585090 BTC
3ByKbDxF1iAMRVjBQFBXq6rRhatn3ht62V with 9.81882623 BTC

bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq was funded with 1.11585090 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 18a6e8f710c4940fee550d391a0d6866f28d055e4c64ba9345a911b46500f485.
this transaction merges 2 unspent outputs, but at least the value of the trace we're following is the biggest for once. following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.09772462 BTC
37JyhLx9UEKReCaWUcrQruL235dDESVeXA with 0.04159130 BTC
3LLwYJM7MAo4QShH2T4b6TtrXuAUX9Bnd7 with 0.00376290 BTC

bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq was funded with 1.09772462 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 790b6b5288ee7aa8f461cc508a0cd66df759cf942d28e73fd2b36eb1ab9fb32b.
following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.05052544 BTC
16bS3XJHsPm6FrQ8CkabgzKLbjPB63Evic with 0.00333120 BTC
36LTHYxEKAUwH3svuEaMMd4H5WsPHPiJCb with 0.01004610 BTC
1HyPD91iSoqj4jATEoGwfDZE8H4wHxvPHr with 0.01512420 BTC
1GJWFqcU7AF1hHULVpT8a2fWCkLpSvbjVt with 0.01268650 BTC
14vjPjaGvnEAfuUMYEPZEKDVoBDpieYGrg with 0.00563310 BTC

bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq was funded with 1.05052544 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 8bad716ea8b1d939cc65ef0755c9a4cdda16b0e214777c048306803660f07079.
following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.02979074 BTC
19a6Ajzk1mEcLWmVESmyS1N3UhfpXCwsuj with 0.00524740 BTC
14zXdS59qqAX7CPg4s5UTEH54LTPV56Jiw with 0.01145850 BTC
3DacLhaPUFgu9gyHiR3xyQx1LvNugny5ww with 0.00376210 BTC


bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq was funded with 1.02979074 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 317c506231050fb91e28280879341c558ae13721526e3da5c40f8bcd0b9c0993.
following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.01522632 BTC
1sNvVCBGHZ6VgCmJPneFFTsGS9B2FsofS with 0.00869840 BTC
1JrkMDBEBZV1zsqCzWXuRRe5oxbUwfhiLh with 0.00563640 BTC

bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq was funded with 1.01522632 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 317c506231050fb91e28280879341c558ae13721526e3da5c40f8bcd0b9c0993.
following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.00244913 BTC
3Me7uCA7ygHwDcKYmL95Eev2SK7GY99Z4m with 0.00995139 BTC
17a4H8hsEg2y6xcrRydQyjxkcxWmvJfrXW with 0.00259700 BTC

bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq  was funded with 1.00244913 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 83ea3e871ecc9cec72c498f3d8698646c9aa9bdef82dd3991bbc58bfd49b6e0f.
following addresses get funded:
bc1qq904ynep5mvwpjxdlyecgeupg22dm8am6cfvgq with 1.00244913 BTC
3Me7uCA7ygHwDcKYmL95Eev2SK7GY99Z4m with 0.00995139 BTC
17a4H8hsEg2y6xcrRydQyjxkcxWmvJfrXW with 0.00259700 BTC

3Me7uCA7ygHwDcKYmL95Eev2SK7GY99Z4m was funded with 0.00995139 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 5f357c4369d74f38f8a7230b497b5a7c20741a97c3744571422407d7dca70f05.
following addresses get funded:
3H7YJooRbp69PttCagcyozsRSLNNDuYAga with 0.00011719 BTC
3CvaLN1zcJTF9qMZx8KhHSEwJ59DxZemer with 0.00965718 BTC

3CvaLN1zcJTF9qMZx8KhHSEwJ59DxZemer was funded with 0.00965718 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction a88c84f418796d540615ca6b4acfc1ed2f23460430b0d6640e615fc1a04d4a80.
following addresses get funded:
3FYgikz3JL99eiNSaeM9pnozX2u1TnZD7z with 0.00102000 BTC
3BeQHdZMwE7gAfYYPzg2DHCPLJoRRkuBoK with 0.00853364 BTC

3BeQHdZMwE7gAfYYPzg2DHCPLJoRRkuBoK was funded with 0.00853364 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 746d1dfb24afd3c4322f003b9c78a21f062ee307ed970fbc043d98ee4655201c.
following addresses get funded:
33MZENT6Lg4Hc7fRJoaBEkvhng8GWCvuRp with 0.00026000 BTC
37gnxrPCzC1dTJtGJAYCegPt2RKaXvTtF6 with 0.00817010 BTC

37gnxrPCzC1dTJtGJAYCegPt2RKaXvTtF6 was funded with 0.00817010 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 8b09f9702a90270769872af44bc5f6db1d7658b48ac62e1d50ebc7d1df6c8f46.
following addresses get funded:
1LP8WPE2C1UzKogfLWhu18UgpsVhwrpNbU with 0.00021240 BTC
12XSTJTz3PRWV3Nai3gVk6tVGK8xPwe5vD with 0.00060135 BTC
3BoDB5FCFKZFgXuDGx956GFiMZLK8eaPMB with 0.00723049 BTC

3BoDB5FCFKZFgXuDGx956GFiMZLK8eaPMB was funded with 0.00723049 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction 9840051b37ae9e979526fb744c6ae222eeee0aafdad176400c82dcbf55a65733.
following addresses get funded:
3EaAoRdnrbWQujm1irZ4XUw91sghLMszAF with 0.00068210 BTC
3LmhRaUXAPsS6mZGr7RiyBzwTBxSiaEUQg with 0.00645320 BTC

3LmhRaUXAPsS6mZGr7RiyBzwTBxSiaEUQg was funded with 0.00645320 BTC, this unspent output is used in transaction a576790d4b0180611d9703d86538f943120ce928dafc4daf016128a66fb4730a.
This was TryNinja's transaction....

So, bottom line... Final conclusion... You got lucky (i assume)...
If i disregard ALL inputs that have nothing to do with any coinbase transaction (more than 300.000!!!!) and ONLY focus on the traces that could be remotely linked to the two coinbase transactions, one could *theoretically* say that TryNinja's outputs contains a tiny percentage of fresh coins...
I mean, the percentage is truely tiny... IF you look at the transaction spending the coinbase rewards (so, the very first step):
bdfbfee25cd935abb128fc632faa9a105d0ae7b6d1ab32b8cc15e452ce2372af
value in: 30.40966025 BTC
value in from the coinbase rewards: 13,44039925 BTC
value out to the rest of our trace: 0.02090359 BTC
So, at this point in time, 99,9% of the "fresh" coins dissapear from our trace, only 0.1% remains...

The next transaction 9a2ec09aa7ada4c581e8b36d5ff56e09b784c547d7e11e9b8d01d03b5fa145e6 decimates this fraction even further....

Even then, there's a huuuuuge distance between the coinbase transactions and TryNinja's transaction, and this was the ONLY time in your output stream that i've ever encountered any coinbase transactions: you got lucky (i assume)...

Both blocks were mined by a miner using 1THash&58COIN in his OP_RETURN. These guys seem to have a webpage: https://www.1thash.com/ .

Okay... Put your money where you mouth is...
TryNinja payed 20% in total, he says his addresses got funded using transaction a576790d4b0180611d9703d86538f943120ce928dafc4daf016128a66fb4730a
Show me which coinbase rewards that have been used to pay him...

And please, don't start telling me that you need to protect your client's security, the tx id is known... It's out there... You cannot take it back... Anybody can follow the trace of unspent outputs if he/she has enough time to follow the trace... I followed it to a reasonable depth, but i could not discover any coinbase transaction within reasonable distance from tx a576790d4b0180611d9703d86538f943120ce928dafc4daf016128a66fb4730a. You promised to pay your clients with fresh coins, so you should be able to give this info since it's now considered to be PUBLIC knowledge.

You have the wallet, you should be able to give us the exact trace from coinbase transaction x to payout transaction a576790d4b0180611d9703d86538f943120ce928dafc4daf016128a66fb4730a, so please tell us which block and the trace from this block to TryNinja's payout.

Once again: no smoke an mirrors... It's a public ledger, the data is final and known to anybody... I couldn't find any coinbase transactions, but maybe i'm wrong... Use the public ledger and information anybody could find to prove TryNinja wasn't scammed into an inferior product. "Aged" and "split" mine didley squad, you promised fresh coins, you should be able to prove that this is what you delivered. Mixing with used coins is already pretty sketchy since you said you'd be providing "fresh" coins, but at this point i'd even be willing to overlook this fact if you could prove that within a reasonable distance of tx a576790d4b0180611d9703d86538f943120ce928dafc4daf016128a66fb4730a there is any coinbase reward that was controlled by you...

As we said this coins are freshly minted coins , its aged and its mixed with fresh coins to avoid blockchain forensics to locate our main fresh coin account, its not mixed with tainted or clients coins.

if some of the coins has many levels deep before the coinbase , it coulds be due to our internal mixer thats mixed it to multi level.

What set us different from other mixers is , they mix with other clients coins, where else we dont. We do not mix cliensts coins before dispensing

ugh....  
I said i'd stay away, but this topic is getting bumped to my "updated topics" all the time, and i was tempted to take a (hopefully last) peek. What i've read triggered me to make a (hopefully last) post in this topic.

I see the OP has moved on from unproven claims to baseless accusations: OP, what's with the 1337 5p34k (for the normal people, like me: "1337 5p34k" = "Leet Speak", like saying F3ds instead of feds, or Int3rpol instead of interpol)?
No, i'm not a member of any law enforcement agency... I'm not an agent of the FBI or Interpol. I wouldn't tell you if i was, but i'm not. I'm a community member, and i care about people that might be tempted to use your service after reading (potentially) false promises. Believe me, if i was a law enforcement agent, i'd keep my mouth shut and let you make promises you can't live up to, it would make my life a lot easyer...
If you claim to be sending out "fresh" coins, but in reality you're just re-cycling unspent outputs from previous clients (like i think you're doing, but i'm unable to proof this without a shadow of a doubt), your new clients might be thinking they received funds without any history, while in reality they're just receiving tainted funds from somebody else.

This isn't that big of a deal, like VOD already said: fungibility... But still, if you claim to be delivering a service, you should deliver said service... It doesn't matter if the service you're actually providing is fine: If it's not what you promised, it's not OK. If you wouldn't have made those big claims, i wouldn't be pummeling you...

Before i continue, I want to address the following statements you made about me when you said (and i'm quoting you):

• "Nice try btw trying to fish for details, btw are you guys int3rpol or the F3ds ?" => already addressed this issue... I don't know any F3ds or int3rpol, are they hacker groups? If you mean law enforcement: also no...
• "trying to shut us down by looking for reasons ?" => the reason is pretty simple: i do not believe your statements and you don't want to prove anything, giving reasons that are basically smoke and mirrors for not having to prove your statements. But even if i don't believe you: why do you think i could shut you down? If you did your homework, you should be running on a bulletproof host in a safe country, so nobody could shut you down... The only thing I can do is analyse your client's transactions, point out flaws and ask for explanations or proof (which i'm doing right now, and eventough you say you want people to point out flaws, you're not taking criticism well i'm afraid)
• "because we are truly cutting the trails ?" => if you are, prove it
• "feel challenged ?" => why would i? Because i'm in chipmixer's campaign? I'm not the owner of chipmixer, and they do not censor me... As a matter of fact, over the last 3 months, i clearly remember looking at 2 other mixing methods and vouching for them... If the mixer is good, i'll say so... If it looks like smoke and mirrors, i also speak up (like in this case)
• "because we are different from other mixers ?" => How? Do you really expect us to just take your word for it? That's not how this community works.... "Don't trust, verify"
• "and there is no way of tracking the mixing ?" => Wot? I only saw 1 person i truely trust (TryNinja) posting 1 transaction after he tested out your sevice and i tracked it over 100 levels deep... It was one of the simpelest traces i've ever followed. What are you talking about?
• "Nice try" => thank you... But i'm not even trying here... Sure, i'm putting some effort into my post, but that's about it. I didn't even have to log into the server running my node, since the trace was so obvious following it on blockstream.info was good enough.

So far, I've seen following statements passing by (i'm paraphrasing):

• You initially claimed to have >5000 BTC, but this was debunked and you passed it off as a communication error (it's your partners that hold these funds, you only have 50 BTC at your disposal)
• You claim to have 50 BTC at your disposal, but you don't want to prove this, claiming it would hurt your customer's privacy (eventough anybody who mixes their funds trough you will immediatly know the source of your funds... Making me believe you don't want to protect your customer's privacy, you just want that mixing fee... The price of your customer's privacy is a 3% fee...)
• You claim to use "fresh" coins, but no matter how deep i dig, i can't see a coinbase transaction. You claim this is because these coins get mixed, split up, aged... But if you're mixing these coins with other funds, it defeats the purpose of delivering "fresh" coins, and aging and splitting wouldn't hide the fact you're using coinbase transactions. Merely aging and splitting would still allow me to find coinbase transactions, which i don't... Hence I think you're not using "fresh" coins at all. I must admit I haven't followed all traces, but i followed quite a few... And i found: zip, nada, nothing, nihil... If i was looking at the wrong outputs: prove it... TryNinja posted his tx id, it's out in the open without other people having to pay the 3% fee to start analysing (not like that would stop law enforcement), so go ahead: starting from tx id a576790d4b0180611d9703d86538f943120ce928dafc4daf016128a66fb4730a SHOW me the fresh coins TryNinja payed for!!! He says he payed ~20% in fees (in total, including transaction fees, but not counting any merging fees or re-mixing fees) PROOF that he got worth his money... That's what you owe your clients: not claims but verifyable facts... SHOW him
• You claim you cannot prove your partners funds because it would hurt their privacy: you cannot have a cake and eat it to.... You pay your partners, your customers pay you: you should be putting your customer's mind at ease, not cover for your partners. The person ultimately paying deserves the truth... As for your partners: I don't see why they cannot switch coinbase addresses and not use an OP_RETURN in one or two blocks. It would take them mere minutes to setup, and if they do so, nobody could ever track them down... There is no way of knowing who mined a certain block UNLESS the miner re-uses the address that gets funded by the coinbase transaction OR if he adds an OP_RETURN. If they put >700 coinbase rewards at your disposal, i don't see why they couldn't mine one anonymous block and sign a message with the new, previously-unused address that got funded with the coinbase reward. They're making money with this enterprise, the least they can do is put 10 minutes of effort in... Unless they don't exist?
• You claim (and i'm looking at/quoting VOD's post) "to have a way of sending coin without revealing the sending address". Interesting... .Please tell us the technical details.... Because, if i look at TryNinja's tx id, it looks like you're just using a nested segwit wallet. Even more, his tx id debunked quite a few of your claims... The pattern i see is really obvious: a chain of transactions generated by a nested segwit wallet. Each time, the change unspent output is re-used: clients get payed and the change goes to a new nested segwit address. The change funding this nested segwit address is used as an input for the next client's withdraw. If you have more than 1 client (or if the client gives 2 output addresses) we're seeing a batch payment (send to many). For the top-up it's also always the same, about ~1 BTC flows in, coming from mixed types, looking like a rag-tag of unspent inputs being combined, exactly what i'd expect as an input from your customers (but that's just an assumption, not proof)... Doesn't matter how far i dig, no "fresh" coins are being used

For what i'm concerned, without any evidence to the contrary, what you're saying is just smoke and mirrors... Coinbase rewards cannot be hidden, transactions are recorded on the blockchain, and it's always possible to see which unspent output has been used as an input for which transaction, so it's always possible to follow the transaction chain back to it's origin. Well, except if you start using things like coinjoined transactions, but that's not the case here.
Since coinbase transactions cannot be hidden, it's ALWAYS possible to discover "freshly" generated coins. In the end, if you go far enough back, you'll always end up with a coinbase transaction, but if you have to dig >100 levels deep, i wouldn't dare to call it "fresh" coins. 10 levels, sure... 20 levels, maybe... 30 levels, no way...

I do have one additional question, and i truely hope you answer it honestly: are you the developer, or did you buy this script from somebody else? In other words, are you defending your own work, or are you defending work that has been done by a thirth party?
Do you understand the claims you're making, or are you putting your trust into somebody else?
Also, do you trust those "russian and chinese" miners, did you verify them? Or could it well be some random dude on the internet selling you dirty funds while telling you he is a miner that has mixed, aged and split his coinbase rewards, pocketing some money from your customers in the process?

I realise you're in a tight spot: you have a business and you want to keep on running it... 2 longtime community members are starting to nitpick and ask you to "put your money where your mouth is", and you're in a spot where you either have to give proof, admit you were wrong (intentionally or unintentionally) or keep on spewing out smoke and mirrors. So far, you have chosen the latter.... I don't see your business having a bright future this way, so i'd kindly give you a suggestion: switch strategy.... There is a (small) chance i'm wrong, and you (or your dev) are really good at your job and succesfully made it look like TryNinja's mixing output was one thing, while in reality it was something completely different... It's possible, but everything i see point the other way... PROOF me wrong.... If you give concrete EVIDENCE i'm wrong, not at one of my assumptions but at every assumption i've made about your service so far, and i'll publicly state i was wrong in this very thread, and maybe even in your trust feedback.

Now, I hope you don't start slinging new unfounded accusations my way... I don't want to deal with you, but i also don't want baseless claims to stand unchallenged, potentially harming new members of the forum that only read your last post(s).  If you have proof, show it... I'm not interested in more smoke and mirror stories as to why it's impossible to prove anything. The bitcoin protocol is well described, the blockchain is easily parsable. Nothing magical happens here, everything is very clear and readable. There is no hocus-pocus here. Sure, there are smart ways to handle mixing, but i really don't think this is what's going on. Trying to discredit me or start a rambling about things that simply cannot be or things that are easily provable (but you won't) don't change a single thing

Because we feel you are the f3ds or int3rpol trying to fish our main account.
You do realize that if we reveal our holding account. Then our mix will no longer be secured as there will be ability to trace to our clients account ? We are not able to reveal our account that holds our funds .

Its really okay if you trust us or not about our total holdings, but we cant reveal the main holding account with all our funds due to security concerns

Hope this helps to understand why we react such.

It's a wild statement to claim you hold any btc at all.  It's a simple accusation that you are lying.
I sent you instructions on how we can kill all discussion of your honesty and start discussing your service.

Why won't you prove anything?

We undestand you want to view our partners main holding account , as we said This will compromise our clients account and this will effect the safety of the mixing. We cant do that. although this will lead to trust that we have over 5000 BTC for mixing, but we value our mixing quality. Quality means more than whether you are trying to fish our main account .

We understand what you wanna see but we cant show that . I am sorry this has to end abrupt . We have to protect our customers at all cost .

Thanks for your concern

Have a great day

Geez man, I've already figured out how to use Quantum services to re-acquire address ownership after mixers.   Do you understand what "fungible" means?  Each coin is identical - there is no such thing as a "tainted" coin if it has no trail/history..

Anyway, I received your PM explaining your situation and asking me to trust you.  You've made two extraordinary claims.  First, that you have 50BTC and your partners have another 5,000BTC.  Second, you claim to have a way of sending coin without revealing the sending address.  

Therefore I understand that your signing a message with coin is impossible since it will reveal your sending address.  So I propose this:

1) Tell your partners you could not convince us you have half a billion dollars on your word alone.  (Sorry)
2) Ask them to do a test transaction and send a clean coin to an address you control.  
3) Sign that address with a message.

If you cannot do that, please do not contact me again.  

Well , as we said before and even stated on our site, we dispense fresh mixed coins
This are aged coins from freshly mined coins which are mixed within our ecosystem to cut the vendors details (Our miners) to make it look like its genuine coins but the difference with other mixers are , we do not mix coins from clients and dispense as this is just basically mixing dirty coins with dirty coins and if one gets flagged, all the mixing gets flagged. Although there will be no evidence of whose coin is whose, but it will definitely raise a flag 

Our mixer takes freshly minted coins, some are old and some are new , mixed within our ecosystem, broken into smaller batches to dispense. once dispensed, the remaining unspent balance are mixed again before the next payout.

By doing this , It truly cuts the trail . Then the not clean money are used by other means and never allowed back into the same pool where the fresh coins are. Thats why we have a limit of fresh coins available and only able to operate as long as we have this funds available. We are not like other mixer that use the same funds and coinjoin to make it harder and deeper to track but definitely not impossible especially using fuzzy logic neural network to track point of origin.

Well we still like to believe that our system still outperforms many mixers out there since we are not a mixer. We dispense fresh coins which are farmed , aged and mix within our ecosystem .

Try doing a block forensics on our outputs and you can never tell its from a mixer or the relations with the input coins since the dispensed coins are totally independent fresh set of coins

We are not new kids on the block. We been dispensing fresh coins for a while now. We been only a new kid on this forum as our founders are paying us for marketing and ramping up marketing efforts . Our clientele goes beyond this forum and time...

We will keep this forum running in event of any service notices or if anyone can find a flaw in our system that actually puts the mixing outputs at risk. We truly appreciate to keep our clients safe and we would like to be in business for many times to come.

We apologies to our clients as much info were given but do ensure, We only give information that does not put you and me at risk. The information given was only basic understanding of our ecosystem but not the actual mechanics or even the proof of the holding blocks that everyone is trying to fish out . We will never reveal our master account under any circumstances as we consider this as a major leak of information...

Nice try btw trying to fish for details, btw are you guys int3rpol or the F3ds ? trying to shut us down by looking for reasons ? because we are truly cutting the trails ? feel challenged ?? because we are different from other mixers ? and there is no way of tracking the mixing ? Nice try

--

Ok, I keep making exactly the same point, and your explanation is defenately not good enough for me.

You keep saying that the way your mixer works makes it impossible for clients to discover other client's funds, what i see is one unspent output being re-used and re-used and re-used in transactions with one input creating >= 2 unspent outputs. Since TryNinja told us that his 2 addresses were funded with the same transaction, I can only assume you're batching transactions to save on fees and you are using one wallet to pay out your customers. It looks a lot like you're topping off said wallet from an unknown source, maybe an exchange, maybe dirty funds from previous clients, but it defenatly doesnt look like coinbase rewards to me.
Offcourse, it's possible most of those transactions are internal transactions created to hide traces, but the way they're built, the mixing of the script types, the number of outputs,... makes me believe i'm right... Especially since TryNinja's both addresses were funded using exactly the same transaction.. It would be an incredible coincidence if his addresses were funded using one and the same transaction, making it very easy to link them together, but other client's privacy would be well protected?

You claim this source is "fresh coins", but no matter how deep i dig, i cannot find a coinbase reward popping up. You're selling "fresh coins", not mixed coins. On the other hand, you're delivering mixed coins, not fresh coins, period.

When we talk about dust, i think we're using a different definition, that's why i put dust between quotes... When i talk about dust being used to top off your wallet, i'm talking about transactions like this one:
https://blockstream.info/tx/7e2191784780c350b607c42fef384711976a9ea11b7b71338ccb36c4c302e1e2
This is one of the transactions topping off your wallet... 39 unspent outputs being used, none of them actually fits the definition of dust, but i was merely talking about the fact this is a transaction is just merging a lot of smaller unspent outputs together... Like, for example, outputs you got from your previous clients??? None of them are coming from a mining reward, that's certain. Once again, this could be a smart move from your part, but if i dig just one level deeper i see this transaction is funded with unspent outputs like this one:
https://blockstream.info/tx/78eb2a595bd24020194c78d89e469f1ef9d0ff69c61565f9f4eb62ed0f6eba49?output:2
funding p2sh, native segwit and legacy addresses, making it look like it's a payout from some service or exchange... Defenately not a miner. Once again, this could be a smart ruse, but i doubt it.

Now, my conclusion is very simple: you're not selling fresh coins. Either the algorithm is (at best) very similar to the other mixers out there OR you've found a way to make the transaction chain look exactly like a mixer using one wallet that's topped of from an unknown source (defenatly not a miner) to pay out his clients while in reality using some super-smart algorithm to actually protect your clients and your sources in a super-smart way.
I cannot prove what you're doing one way or another, but with the absence of any proof of actual coinbase rewards being used, and without proof that transaction chain is more than what it appears to be, i can only say the odds are pretty big that my assumption is correct.
Once again: no proof... I'm just saying that this is a classic example of occam's razor:
source: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Occams-razor

This isn't a problem per-se, other than the fact that it's false advertisement to tell people you'll be using coinbase rewards (fresh coins) but in reality you're using the same algorithm as many of your competitors.  Honesty goes a long way, dishonesty can ruin your business. Nobody would have cared if you opened yet another mixer, but people do care if you promise to do something more than what you're competitors are doing, but you fail to prove this in any substantial way.


I will leave you with an in real life fictional fiat equivalent of what you CLAIM to be doing:
I'm going to the philipines next week and I want to bring 5000 euro's cash with me. I've heared that the president of the philipines is very hard on drug offences, and i know most euro bills have traces of cocaine on them. Since i don't want to be arrested, i only want to bring certified clean money with me.
I meet you on the street. You tell me you have a hook up at the central bank that can provide you with 100% legal, freshly printed, never used 20€ bills... You tell me that if i give you 5100 euro's of my potentially cocaine-carrying euro bills, you'll give me 5000 euro's in never used bills in return.
The day arrives, I give you 5100 euro and you give me an enveloppe back. When i'm home, i open the enveloppe and find 4900 euro's in old, used bills.
Since you gave me an anonymous email address to contact you for more business, i shoot you a mail to complain... A couple days later i get following response:
"yes, i had 5000 euro's in sparkling new bills, but i wanted to protect my source at the bank, so i took those bills to the local coffeeshop (a dutch shop where they sell cannabis products). I gave him the 2500 euro's in new bills, and in return he gave me 2400 euro's from his cash register. I mixed those 2400 euro's with 2500 euro in new bills and gave them to you...".
Why on earth would you do this? I payed to get 5000 euro's in new bills, not 2500 euro's in new bills and 2400 euro's in bills that have even a greater potential of being tainted with drugs. I cannot take these 4900 euro's to the philipines.
What it actually looks like you're doing is even worse: you never had 5000 euro clean bills. You just used old bills to give to me, pocketing 200 euro's.

Now, i'm pretty sure you'll twist this post around and find new ways of saying exactly the same thing... I'm going to step out of this thread since it's pretty clear you're not interested in showing any kind of proof, hiding behind the fact that you say you want to protect both your miners and your customers.
I personally think it would be pretty trivial to produce evidence, even if it means you'd have to re-clean a small portion of your funds... But hey, it's up to you if you want to be trusted or if you want to be yet another sketchy mixer that's only being used by people that know little or nothing about this ecosystem.

Piece out

Hi there , we never claimed we have 5000 plus BTC
We can get this from our available BTC from our partners, in form of fresh coins
This is the amount available to be mixed,
I have mentioned in our forum that we hold ard 50 BTC
plz review the trust posted ..

NO NO NO, our coins are mixed within our fresh coins only. Then broken down into smaller account holdings and after sending the coins , it gets mixed with other fresh coins and broken down again to smaller accounts. WE STRICTLY DO NOT MIX FUNDS FROM THE DIRTY COINS , that will reveal the sender and receiver . Thats a big no for the security of our system.

Yes our TOS means that your wallet is your wallet. We only send to your wallet address but have no control over your private key or your wallet holdings including reusing it, redistributing the address or even passing to any 3rd party. it will defy the purpose of the mixer itself. ALL LOGS ARE DESTROYED IN 24 HOURS or you can choose to delete it manually after receiving the funds ...

As for our 2 talkless database , we have many other security in place such as 2 talkless database to serve as decoy in event the main database is compromised. Our second database takes that info from the first database and replace irrelevent data on the info on first database to serve as decoy... yeah our developers are genius much ( things we detail to ensure fullest security for our clients)

The reason we mix the coins internally within fresh coins is so that say we send out to 2 clients with the same block reward, the 1st party will know who the 2nd party is.
By doing an internal mixing to avoid this to ensure safety. At this level none of the clients can see another clients because this dust transactions gets mixed again with other fresh coins before dispensing again. Old coins are used for different purpose and never used in remixing again, only fresh coins are broken into smaller amount after mixing.

forensic can never find the actual sender by this mechanism and another client can never find the other clients address too.

if you find a 100 level deep transaction, it is the miner fee for the transaction mixed along with this dust .

we promise fresh coins but its aged and mixed with only fresh coins. we never mix with dirty clients coins

hope this explains our mechanism

Why did you mention that the coin is fresh as long as it has been mixed up? This means that it may have been mixed with unknown sources.
Can you prove any claim with your site?




 

According to your TOS:  https://whalemixer.com/termsofuse/

You say that data is deleted within 24 hours, yet you do not receive or send money?

Sorry, but i don't see a flaw in sending directly minted coins... If your miners use a fresh address to get funded by the coinbase rewards, there is nothing to trace or compromise... If You would have used the coinbase reward and payed mixing outputs using this reward only i wouldn't have been able to trace back > 100 levels deep, my trace would have stopped at the coinbase reward, and i would only have been able to link the clients that had been payed with the same reward together, but now i would have been able to link every client that has been payed > 100 levels deep...

You say that the freshly minted coins are "broken into smaller accounts , mixed and aged". This basically means that the people using the (thirth party) mixer used to MIX their coinbase reward received freshly minted coins... Your customers just receive post-mix unspent outputs that could potentially be linked to criminal activity instead of mining... This makes you a normal mixer, not a mixer where your clients will receive coinbase rewards.

Your business promises people "fresh coins", not outputs from a different mixer.

As for the available coins, when a request is made , we allocate certain amount for that mix , this balance will get refreshed after 24 hours. We have over 700 request today with around 200 actual mixing performed. plus the actuall amount balance from our miners has reduced. We are a little worried since of the fresh coins are no more available... we will be out of business , as we are already having trouble getting litecoin for almost 3 weeks now.

Apparently our marketing outsource is doing their job. Rebecca Simon Teller
We spent some on hiring marketing team and looks like they came up with this kind of strategy, and more will be coming as well.
I am impressed with their work. This actually appeared on google search ? impressive .... very impressive
Thats why we are having a higher volume on our mixing this past few days... We were wondering where this traffic were coming from.

This coins are not directly from the miners account and surely not mined realtime and sent to clients , that will compromise the miners and easy to trace the origin. Rather this coins are broken into smaller accounts , mixed and aged.  however this coins are has not been circulated , If it has many levels deep, its due to transaction fees paid to miners thats mixed in this coins. 

We can ensure that this coins are not circulated rather broken into smaller accounts either by our partners or our own mechanism to ensure safety of the mixing.

Can u see the flaws if we directly send coins thats minted directly without mixing it and breaking it to smaller amount ? Yes , if one address is compromised, all gets compromised. Thats the reason why we age the coins and break it smaller and mix it before dispensing to our clients.

This coins are not directly from the miners account and surely not mined realtime and sent to clients , that will compromise the miners and easy to trace the origin. Rather this coins are broken into smaller accounts , mixed and aged.  however this coins are has not been circulated , If it has many levels deep, its due to transaction fees paid to miners thats mixed in this coins. 

We can ensure that this coins are not circulated rather broken into smaller accounts either by our partners or our own mechanism to ensure safety of the mixing.

Can u see the flaws if we directly send coins thats minted directly without mixing it and breaking it to smaller amount ? Yes , if one address is compromised, all gets compromised. Thats the reason why we age the coins and break it smaller and mix it before dispensing to our clients.

I am glad you tested our services and the workabouts.


and the reason for waiting for funds , This is also a security feature. When there is no evidence that a coin is received, there is no evidence to mention that the coin received is any part of the coins sent. we delete logs every 24 hours, in event anythings happens during this period, there will not be any evidence ,

we have many other security in place such as 2 talkless database to serve as decoy in event the main database is compromised. Our second database takes that info from the first database and replace irrelevent data on the info on first database to serve as decoy... yeah our developers are genius much ( things we detail to ensure fullest security for our clients)

As for the miners fee , you can check on the blockchain how much was paid , we do not collect more than 1%-2.99% the average is around USD 2-4 / address at this time

As for the available coins, when a request is made , we allocate certain amount for that mix , this balance will get refreshed after 24 hours. We have over 700 request today with around 200 actual mixing performed. plus the actuall amount balance from our miners has reduced. We are a little worried since of the fresh coins are no more available... we will be out of business , as we are already having trouble getting litecoin for almost 3 weeks now.

Thank you for using our services