[ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure - page 228.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: G-Bert on November 12, 2014, 08:54:37 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 08:48:05 AM

End of discussion.

Good.

Surely you got more important things to be doing than this pointless argument Syn?

Didn't you say yesterday something along the lines of "The more time spent on here, the less spent on developments & updates"?

Yes I do, but I invited Revelation into respectful dialogue two days ago. I'm doing my best to honour it.

(Also I've been awaiting some information before I can carry on with what I'm actually working on, so there was a gap here. Not to say it wasn't a tedious way to spend my time!)

G-Bert

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 08:48:05 AM

End of discussion.

Good.

Surely you got more important things to be doing than this pointless argument Syn?

Didn't you say yesterday something along the lines of "The more time spent on here, the less spent on developments & updates"?

Dungor

full member

Activity: 178

Merit: 100

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:38:11 AM

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 12, 2014, 07:35:40 AM

Will the blocknet be helpful in any way to count this:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/11/12/obama-wants-to-now-fully-regulate-the-internet-as-a-public-utility/

I'm not sure, but Mr. Obama would be mistaken if he were to think that the internet fell under US jurisdiction.

It's a continual source of bafflement to me that US institutions so often appear unaware of their merely national authority.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/28/seven-people-keys-worldwide-internet-security-web

The internet as we know is placed in the US, it is way more centralized than most people know. This is why we need blockchain tech on a platform other than the big fiber lines infrastructure.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 08:39:05 AM

I am not disposed negatively toward you, however it bothers me how you are using ethics in defending your position or accusing others and yet at the same time you refuse to acknowledge that you are not making ethical claims.
You were claiming that one cannot say "the market price has dropped" because on Bter the ask price is high. These type of claims are bothersome.

You just changed your argument from:

"Synechist is unethically using Bter to quote the market price"

to:

"Synechist is bothersomely quoting Bter to argue against claims that the market price has dropped a lot."

You just shifted the goalposts. You saw that your line of argument has insufficient basis and then tried to switch to another line of attack.

That's game over in my favour. End of discussion.

Now if you'd kindly go to that FUD thread and supply some reasons why you think I'm unethical, perhaps there'll be grounds to pursue discussion with you. But for the time being, there aren't.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Cryptoleonardo on November 12, 2014, 08:38:04 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 07:03:17 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 06:39:24 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 06:28:47 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:13:32 AM

Quote from: WhiteNotWright on November 12, 2014, 06:11:45 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:10:09 AM

wow price of Block has dropped a lot. Im glad I got my refund. So whats going on here guys? Cliff notes Huh

We Won. Next question?

You've not answered my question. I asked for cliff's..

synechist?

It's up 55% from the ITO price on Bter.

And what about the drop to 0.00018487 on Bittrex?

Not that this is advice, but, uh, buy on Bittrex and sell on Bter?

Low liquidity. Prices diverge. It means neither a drop nor a rise if it's within the cross-exchange spread.

No, I'm asking, why are people selling below cost? Is it a lack of confidence in Blocknet?

Better question is that why people don't sell when bittrex do a buy wall for it

Because they'd all just bought BLOCK in order to for the Blocknet to launch.

Enough people think that the Blocknet has great potential for the future - enough potential for them to take on market exposure during the coming months.

It's a simple calculation for long term investors:

- buy BLOCK until the ITO reaches its minimum threshold, or else the Blocknet won't exist

- if we don't buy, we have no opportunity for gains

- if we do buy, we may make a short-term loss, but without making a short-term loss there'll be no long-term gains.

- therefore buy during the ITO.

Revelation

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 08:31:33 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 08:26:49 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 08:07:39 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:57:45 AM

It is not legal (moreover it is not ethical) to use the ask price on the most illiquid market to defend the claim that the market price is 38k.

Here's the point: I did not claim that the market price is 38k.

That post was in response to another claim that the price was 18k or something.
My statement was purely drawing attention to the spread, in order to assert that due to illiquidity, it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped.

So I did not claim the price was 38k, I claimed that another person's claim that the market was dumping was incorrect, due to him not having taken illiquidity into account.

But do you see what you're doing? You're taking my statements out of context and then misinterpreting them in order to support your claim that I'm unethical.

I haven't taken the statement out of context. Polo and Bittrex price is indeed around 20k (market price, mid-price, volume-weighted average - pick your favorite measure). Bter is illiquid market and it doesn't represent true market picture. Bter mid-price and ask price is significantly higher compared to two active markets, however it is unethical to use Bter as it shows a false picture. Moreover, it is illegal (if you would have to defend your claim in the courts that "it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped"). Market has dropped by any measure.

A false picture of what? The inter-exchange spread? Because that's what I was pointing out.

It's an empirical fact that the spread between exchanges extended to 38k at that point in time.

Therefore I was not being unethical.

What's it gonna take before you get it through your head that I wasn't quoting the market price? Your negative disposition toward me is clearly clouding your judgement.

I am not disposed negatively toward you, however it bothers me how you are using ethics in defending your position or accusing others and yet at the same time you refuse to acknowledge that you are not making ethical claims.
You were claiming that one cannot say "the market price has dropped" because on Bter the ask price is high. These type of claims are bothersome.

Cryptoleonardo

newbie

Activity: 52

Merit: 0

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 07:03:17 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 06:39:24 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:31:53 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 06:28:47 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:13:32 AM

Quote from: WhiteNotWright on November 12, 2014, 06:11:45 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:10:09 AM

wow price of Block has dropped a lot. Im glad I got my refund. So whats going on here guys? Cliff notes Huh

We Won. Next question?

You've not answered my question. I asked for cliff's..

synechist?

It's up 55% from the ITO price on Bter.

And what about the drop to 0.00018487 on Bittrex?

Not that this is advice, but, uh, buy on Bittrex and sell on Bter?

Low liquidity. Prices diverge. It means neither a drop nor a rise if it's within the cross-exchange spread.

No, I'm asking, why are people selling below cost? Is it a lack of confidence in Blocknet?

Better question is that why people don't sell when bittrex do a buy wall for it

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 08:26:49 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 08:07:39 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:57:45 AM

It is not legal (moreover it is not ethical) to use the ask price on the most illiquid market to defend the claim that the market price is 38k.

Here's the point: I did not claim that the market price is 38k.

That post was in response to another claim that the price was 18k or something.
My statement was purely drawing attention to the spread, in order to assert that due to illiquidity, it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped.

So I did not claim the price was 38k, I claimed that another person's claim that the market was dumping was incorrect, due to him not having taken illiquidity into account.

But do you see what you're doing? You're taking my statements out of context and then misinterpreting them in order to support your claim that I'm unethical.

I haven't taken the statement out of context. Polo and Bittrex price is indeed around 20k (market price, mid-price, volume-weighted average - pick your favorite measure). Bter is illiquid market and it doesn't represent true market picture. Bter mid-price and ask price is significantly higher compared to two active markets, however it is unethical to use Bter as it shows a false picture. Moreover, it is illegal (if you would have to defend your claim in the courts that "it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped"). Market has dropped by any measure.

A false picture of what? The inter-exchange spread? Because that's what I was pointing out.

It's an empirical fact that the spread between exchanges extended to 38k at that point in time.

Therefore I was not being unethical.

What's it gonna take before you get it through your head that I wasn't quoting the market price? Your negative disposition toward me is clearly clouding your judgement.

WhiteNotWright

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Fibre Knight

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:34:35 AM

Oh hi Spoetnik.

You're banned.

Bye.

nice lol

Revelation

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 08:07:39 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:57:45 AM

It is not legal (moreover it is not ethical) to use the ask price on the most illiquid market to defend the claim that the market price is 38k.

Here's the point: I did not claim that the market price is 38k.

That post was in response to another claim that the price was 18k or something.
My statement was purely drawing attention to the spread, in order to assert that due to illiquidity, it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped.

So I did not claim the price was 38k, I claimed that another person's claim that the market was dumping was incorrect, due to him not having taken illiquidity into account.

But do you see what you're doing? You're taking my statements out of context and then misinterpreting them in order to support your claim that I'm unethical.

I haven't taken the statement out of context. Polo and Bittrex price is indeed around 20k (market price, mid-price, volume-weighted average - pick your favorite measure). Bter is illiquid market and it doesn't represent true market picture. Bter mid-price and ask price is significantly higher compared to two active markets, however it is unethical to use Bter as it shows a false picture. Moreover, it is illegal (if you would have to defend your claim in the courts that "it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped"). Market has dropped by any measure.

Your claim is that "the market price didn't drop", I've used 38k for the purpose of my courts example.

WhiteNotWright

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Fibre Knight

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:59:12 AM

Quote from: WhiteNotWright on November 12, 2014, 07:54:22 AM

It's funny how all the trolls show up at the same time and with the same general premise, too attempt to discredit this project. Obviously it has legs, that much is clear.

Yes, the timing is interesting.

As is the fact that some of the people involved in the smear campaign were using multiple accounts to make it appear to have more collective opinion behind it (eg. DanIsDone, Unicornfarts and rdnkjdi: same person).

Thanks, fudsters. A co-ordinated attack is a good sign that the FUD is organised, somewhat centralised, and not a grassroots phenomenon.

I think they were hoping we wouldn't notice lol.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:57:45 AM

It is not legal (moreover it is not ethical) to use the ask price on the most illiquid market to defend the claim that the market price is 38k.

Here's the point: I did not claim that the market price is 38k.

That post was in response to another claim that the price was 18k or something.
My statement was purely drawing attention to the spread, in order to assert that due to illiquidity, it's incorrect to straightforwardly quote the price on Polo and thereby assert that the market has dropped.

So I did not claim the price was 38k, I claimed that another person's claim that the market was dumping was incorrect, due to him not having taken illiquidity into account.

But do you see what you're doing? You're taking my statements out of context and then misinterpreting them in order to support your as-yet-unfounded claim that I'm unethical.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: WhiteNotWright on November 12, 2014, 07:54:22 AM

It's funny how all the trolls show up at the same time and with the same general premise, too attempt to discredit this project. Obviously it has legs, that much is clear.

Yes, the timing is interesting.

As is the fact that some of the people involved in the smear campaign were using multiple accounts to make it appear to have more collective opinion behind it (eg. DanIsDone, Unicornfarts and rdnkjdi: same person).

Thanks, fudsters. A co-ordinated attack is a good sign that the FUD is organised, somewhat centralised, and not a grassroots phenomenon.

Revelation

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:49:40 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:41:23 AM

Using the illiquid market to make a claim that the price is high is not ethical. There is no price divergence between Bter and Bittrex simply because there is no active market on Bter. Market with 100% spread and 0.3 BTC daily volume cannot be used for any comparison. At best, you should be using the mid-point price and not the highest of the two.

"not ethical"
- you have yet to respond with a reason for why you think this, on that FUD thread.

Until you do so, I'm unwilling to continue discussing this with you, because the discussion lacks a basis for your central claim.

Go and reply to me on the FUD thread.

//
Your recommendation that "At best, (I) should be using the mid-point price and not the highest of the two" is roughly equivalent to this statement of mine: "Low liquidity. Prices diverge. It means neither a drop nor a rise if it's within the cross-exchange spread."

Are you willingly ignoring my words again? It appears that you're making an effort to spin my statements into a negative light by quoting only part of them and then interpreting that part askew.

This, Revelation, is slander. Carry on like this and you'll get a ban.

Word ethical that I was using is probably too soft. Suppose that there is a court case (e.g. taxes) and one of the input parameters in the case is the market price of BLOCK. It is not legal (moreover it is not ethical) to use the ask price on the most illiquid market to defend the claim that the market price is 38k. You could go with the most liquid market or the volume-weighted average across different trading venues.

ps I am not talking about the project, my statements are about synechist claims

reRaise

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Blocknet will thrive to top 10, i like this concept

WhiteNotWright

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Fibre Knight

It's funny how all the trolls show up at the same time and with the same general premise, to attempt to discredit this project. Obviously it has legs, that much is clear.

synechist

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:41:23 AM

Using the illiquid market to make a claim that the price is high is not ethical. There is no price divergence between Bter and Bittrex simply because there is no active market on Bter. Market with 100% spread and 0.3 BTC daily volume cannot be used for any comparison. At best, you should be using the mid-point price and not the highest of the two.

"not ethical"
- you have yet to respond with a reason for why you think this, on that FUD thread.

Until you do so, I'm unwilling to continue discussing this with you, because the discussion lacks a basis for your central claim.

Go and reply to me on the FUD thread.

//
Your recommendation that "At best, (I) should be using the mid-point price and not the highest of the two" is roughly equivalent to this statement of mine: "Low liquidity. Prices diverge. It means neither a drop nor a rise if it's within the cross-exchange spread."

Are you willingly ignoring my words again? It appears that you're making an effort to spin my statements into a negative light by quoting only part of them and then interpreting that part askew.

This, Revelation, is slander. Carry on like this and you'll get a ban.

Revelation

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:32:45 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:09:55 AM

The beauty about trading is that at any instant we can see whether or not someone made the right investment decision. If your current position is losing money that clearly was a bad investment decision. Don't teach others "how trading works" - it is pure and simple. If you are in red it means you made a bad investment decision. Period.

You're quite wrong about this.

Taking a position is a function of liquidity and position size.

The lower the liquidity and the larger the position, the higher the likelihood of a short-term loss.

So a sound investment could necessitate making an initial loss.

Therefore it's incorrect that "at any instant we can see whether or not someone made the right investment decision."

I'd suggest that since your advice is to hold off from giving advice if your position is in the red, you hold off from offering advice on investing.

I am not making any advices if you read carefully. I am claiming that market price offers very easy way to measure whether an investment is good or not. I didn't discuss how to build a position, I am saying that how good a position is can be measured by looking at the market price.
The bigger the position relative to the market liquidity the bigger the discount one should take relative to the market price in order to take into account the potential price impact from exiting one's position. Therefore, measuring current position by using current market price gives a positive bias.

Revelation

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:24:22 AM

Quote from: Revelation on November 12, 2014, 07:11:35 AM

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 06:28:47 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:13:32 AM

Quote from: WhiteNotWright on November 12, 2014, 06:11:45 AM

Quote from: Oldminer on November 12, 2014, 06:10:09 AM

wow price of Block has dropped a lot. Im glad I got my refund. So whats going on here guys? Cliff notes Huh

We Won. Next question?

You've not answered my question. I asked for cliff's..

synechist?

It's up 55% from the ITO price on Bter.

You have to be kidding, right? It is not ethical to quote illiquid market for the price. Bter is irrelevant market, and even there it is not possible to sell at a profit.

Did you willingly ignore the following?

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 06:39:24 AM

Not that this is advice, but, uh, buy on Bittrex and sell on Bter?

Low liquidity. Prices diverge. It means neither a drop nor a rise if it's within the cross-exchange spread.

Using the illiquid market to make a claim that the price is high is not ethical. There is no price divergence between Bter and Bittrex simply because there is no active market on Bter. Market with 100% spread and 0.3 BTC daily volume cannot be used for any comparison. At best, you should be using the mid-point price and not the highest of the two.

dan7777777

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: synechist on November 12, 2014, 07:38:11 AM

Quote from: dan7777777 on November 12, 2014, 07:35:40 AM

Will the blocknet be helpful in any way to count this:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/11/12/obama-wants-to-now-fully-regulate-the-internet-as-a-public-utility/

I'm not sure, but Mr. Obama would be mistaken if he were to think that the internet fell under US jurisdiction.

It's a continual source of bafflement to me that US institutions so often appear unaware of their merely national authority.

I am in the UK and they just block sites instead.

Topic: [ANN][Blocknet] truly decentralized exchange | token ecosystem infrastructure - page 228. (Read 1103293 times)