Author

Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 1647. (Read 9723926 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
Don't start telling people about your idea (and try to get them to buy/pump your coin) before even releasing a paper.

FUD attack vectors:

If dev speaks of the plans => he is a pumper
If dev doesn't speak of the plans => he is profiting from inside knowledge when there will be the eventual release, that only he knows about, leaving investors in the dark so he can acquire himself and the whales and then dump on the late-arrivals of investors, etc etc.

Likewise

If dev discloses market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on what he discloses
If dev doesn't disclose market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on inside knowledge

If coin name = darkcoin => "haha what a ridiculous name, who will adopt a coin like DARKcoin"
If coin name = changed from darkcoin=> "it was rebranded to wash the scam"

If code comes first, papers later => "where is the paper? This can't be serious without a paper"
If paper comes first, code later => "a fuckin paper? this is a pump based on vaporware"

No matter what is done, the trolls will always find something problematic Cheesy


sr. member
Activity: 317
Merit: 1012
...
I would definitely vote for a budget to get Ledger/btchip to add Dash support.  That would simultanously add compatibility to at least 3 different low-cost hardware wallet options (the NFC card, the rotating usb stick, and the cheap plastic HW.1) for strategic distribution to key people at serious conferences.

Ooh, is that feasible? I'd definitely +1 that.
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
...
Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.
great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?


By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!

Maybe NFC business cards? Anyone that's met the Dash reps face to face would get a random amount then regardless of where they where, not sure if they could hold a wallet file though.

This is the only working NFC wallet that I know of: www.ledgerwallet.com/products/6-ledger-unplugged

I would definitely vote for a budget to get Ledger/btchip to add Dash support.  That would simultanously add compatibility to at least 3 different low-cost hardware wallet options (the NFC card, the rotating usb stick, and the cheap plastic HW.1) for strategic distribution to key people at serious conferences.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
So I'd like to address some of the earlier posts.

First off, to those that felt it necessary to make puerile comments about me, ad hominem attacks weaken your premise. I understand it's hard to see the wood for the trees, but honestly, get over yourselves. You aren't beyond reproach (far from it), and all of you clearly lack the humility and wherewithal to know what you don't know. Shooting the messenger doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant. Stating that you are ignorant is not "FUD", it's a statement of fact, but the good news is that ignorance is a state you can escape from.

Now, it's important to understand why this "spork" nonsense is so fundamentally broken. I've seen arguments centred around the "many-eyes" principle of FOSS, and some based on deterministic builds (which is an idiotic argument, and completely misses the point, so I won't be addressing it).

I know that for many of you this is your first open-source project, and your first exposure to the development of security software of any kind, and so you may be unfamiliar with thinking adversarially. You may think that merely because a handful of others glance at the code that it magically makes it secure, but that is not the case. Open-source software i just at risk as closed-source software, except that you're not paying known entities to review the code. Neither approach is a magic bullet.

So how could a backdoor be hidden in the code? If you've ever seen the International Obfuscated C Code Contest you'll know that it is reasonably trivial to make code nearly impossible to read and grok. But have you ever heard of the Underhanded C Contest? If you're familiar with C then I encourage you to take a look at some of the past entries.

The long and the short of it is that it is not unheard of, or particularly difficult, for an obfuscated back door to be slipped into open-source code. But hey - this is a risk in Bitcoin and Monero and other cryptocurrencies, so Dash is fine, right??? Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

My conversation with dEBRUYNE was neither secret (it was in a public channel) nor was it incorrect. If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.



Fluff...mate..."it's hard to see the wood for the trees"....mmm, yup, too true.

What's simply astounding (apart from your name) is just how many of you Monero people are completely and utterly unclear on what "money" is and what properties it needs to function properly in human society. You're all so consumed by the technobabble of crypto (and how Monero's technobabble is sooooo superior to everyone else's technobabble) you're completely unaware that when the serious investors finally come to crypto, it's not academic puritan crypto-nirvana-tech they're going to look at. It's the overall package of how a crypto currency has been built and whether its properties are aligned to 5000+ years of agreed principles on what makes money...money.

So rather than getting all twisted and upset, given you're here in the Dash thread and we're suffering from the constant buffoonary and shear mindlessnes of the dnaleor's of this world who are so so terribly threatened by Dash (and who are clearly so far out of their depth they're virtually walking around in a forest looking for a tree), why don't you elaborate for us on how Monero's monetary principle's are designed for ultimate acceptance by serious investors in the financial sphere? Start off with how an obscured blockchain facilitates XMR being a base-asset and society being able to trust the supposed monetary units of XMR when there's no way of confirming what amounts are sitting in specific addresses. Then move on to how the XMR blockchain can be verified and trusted.
sr. member
Activity: 255
Merit: 250

Speaking purely hypothetically? The benefit would be when he's cashing out and he needs one-last-pump.


If your whole argument is a hypothetical where the dev is malicious then I fail to see how spork / no spork makes any difference.

So it comes down to you thinking Evan is a scammer. Can't say I agree with you on that one.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
full member
Activity: 133
Merit: 100
Every time I click to read the next page my place is lost due to incessant deletions of past content. If the goal of deleting old or unnecessary posts is to make the thread easier to read, then it has been a complete failure.

People may stop reading altogether if they have no stable point of reference from which to start or continue their reading.  

It is like if you're in the middle of a long novel and when you turn the page you're suddenly reading the final chapter and have spoiled the ending.  Now if you still want to go back and dutifully continue reading from your prior position, you must search through every page to find it, spoiling the rest of the content in the process.  Who wants to read backwards!?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
...printed bog paper Wink

Two raffles

One for a loaded Dash wallet handed out on a USB stick

and one for some XMR on a toilet paper based "wallet" (non-GUI but most likely gooey.....)

Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.
great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?


By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!
for some reason this whole time we were waiting on the electrum wallet i thought it was going to be a mobile wallet not a desktop client.
are they working on a mobile one too?

There is an android one and hopefully apple too soon.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
go back to work !
you are in the wrong thread !
 Angry

It's actually been an amusing and interesting conversation tonight. Far higher class than the normal "it are instamaaan and da suckz!
legendary
Activity: 1182
Merit: 1000
...printed bog paper Wink

Two raffles

One for a loaded Dash wallet handed out on a USB stick

and one for some XMR on a toilet paper based "wallet" (non-GUI but most likely gooey.....)

Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.
great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?


By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!
for some reason this whole time we were waiting on the electrum wallet i thought it was going to be a mobile wallet not a desktop client.
are they working on a mobile one too?
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1023
go back to work !
you are in the wrong thread !
 Angry
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
We wouldn't if you didn't sometimes come across like such a Doos. Ek speel maar net.

lol, net 'n grappie, ne?

That said what would be the benefit of Evan putting malicious code into his project? Or anyone else from the dev team? Also as they can be rolled back by other members of the team any such theoretical attack from within could hopefully be negated?

Speaking purely hypothetically? The benefit would be when he's cashing out and he needs one-last-pump.

BTW: the effects of the backdoor can be observed in both cases when it is used, and not any earlier. So there is really no difference in that regard. The forking is of course possible, but that is easily observable, too, or am I missing something?

Well, imagine he obfuscates the code such that it only activates on a successful deactivation of an existing spork. Then it lies dormant until he reaches out and touches every node with His Noodly Appendage.

Wrong.

The spork is merely a secondary lever, not a magical "activate terrible code"-button. A malicious Monero developer for example could implement "underhanded code" into your official GUI-wallet release (you know, in 2045 or so when it's finished) with the simple instruction of having it activate when certain conditions are met, like a date, a block height, a difficulty level, even a certain transaction amount or a combination of any of these conditions. Heck, for all I care he could program his own spork as underhanded code into your release and create the same exact scenario you just tried to reduce onto DASH.

As you can see, your central argument has been easily refuted, making Dash just as vulnerable to that method as any other crypto. Not more, as you tried to construct. Nice try though.

The majority of those conditions (dates, block heights, difficulty levels, transaction amounts) would be easily visible even in heavily obfuscated code. Furthermore, activating at any of those junctures may be sub-optimal for our hypothetical malicious dev's needs. Being able to trigger at point-in-time is incredibly, incredibly powerful (in the negative sense).

Anyhow, this has been an interesting conversation, and I've appreciated the more mature responses from toknormal et al., but I think it's best to shake virtual hands and move on. Cheers:)
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1005
DASH is the future of crypto payments!
World's First DAPI: Decentralized Application Programming Interface
 Grin
http://cointelegraph.com/news/115510/worlds-first-dapi-decentralized-application-programming-interface


Evan as time pass by you become more handsome Wink

Great conversation btw. Love to see Dash @ cointelegraph
sr. member
Activity: 465
Merit: 250
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1023
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

What if we buy you a case of beer with blockchain budget proposal ? (un-sporked of course. You could do the taste test). I for one may have insulted you by suggesting you used a Sinclair Spectrum for which I apologise ( - that might have been agesist of me  Wink  )

All the same, setting aside the inflammatory rhetoric on both sides, you raise some useful points. The Spork is a powerful and appropriate tool for this project and code transparency is a a necessary security priority.



I think Evan once said he was working on a way to make the Spork automatic.  Automatic triggers and automatic reversions.  I can see this working.  And it would make the spork completely decentralized, removing the accusations and keeping the functionality.  But it's been a while, so I don't know if this is going anywhere?
legendary
Activity: 2101
Merit: 1061
Heres a look at a Dash chart from the Cryptowatch website using data from the Poloniex exchange. Chart is showing all Dash vs Bitcoin data available with 1 week candles.



https://cryptowat.ch/poloniex/dashbtc

At the moment selling volume appears to be growing and price is falling steeply. Could it be Dash is near capitulation for this bear move ?

Although the technical picture looks quite grim with most uptrending lines now broken a falling wedge can be considered a bullish sign. Dash is looking oversold in relation to bollinger bands and RSI.

Dash can remain bearish for a while yet but if bitcoin goes parabolic, dash (and other alts) may go like bitcoin on steroids.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

What if we buy you a case of beer with blockchain budget proposal ? (un-sporked of course. You could do the taste test). I for one may have insulted you by suggesting you used a Sinclair Spectrum for which I apologise ( - that might have been agesist of me  Wink  )

All the same, setting aside the inflammatory rhetoric on both sides, you raise some useful points. The Spork is a powerful and appropriate tool for this project and code transparency is a a necessary security priority.



Mentions of Spectrums make me all nostalgic...
I can remember coding game graphics with a friend of mine on a commodore 64.
sr. member
Activity: 465
Merit: 250
Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

Wrong.

The spork is merely a secondary lever, not a magical "activate terrible code"-button. A malicious Monero developer for example could implement "underhanded code" into your official GUI-wallet release (you know, in 2045 or so when it's finished) with the simple instruction of having it activate when certain conditions are met, like a date, a block height, a difficulty level, even a certain transaction amount or a combination of any of these conditions. Heck, for all I care he could program his own spork as underhanded code into your release and create the same exact scenario you just tried to reduce onto DASH.

As you can see, your central argument has been easily refuted, making Dash just as vulnerable to that method as any other crypto. Not more, as you tried to construct. Nice try though.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1188

If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

What if we buy you a case of beer with blockchain budget proposal ? (un-sporked of course. You could do the taste test). I for one may have insulted you by suggesting you used a Sinclair Spectrum for which I apologise ( - that might have been agesist of me  Wink  )

All the same, setting aside the inflammatory rhetoric on both sides, you raise some useful points. The Spork is a powerful and appropriate tool for this project and code transparency is a a necessary security priority. They need to be reconciled.

Jump to: