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Topic: [ANN][EMC2] Einsteinium | FUNDING THE FUTURE WITH THE FUTURE OF CURRENCY - page 418. (Read 1076366 times)

sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Okay here is the deal. Cryptocurrency is a new thing. There is a solid argument for saying this new thing is more powerful the more decentralized it is. More security, less chance at 51% attack and more power in the hands of the masses who wish to get into the game or capitalize on this new opportunity. Capitalism is all fine and dandy in my world. It makes the world tick better than just about any other way at this point. Crony capitalism where a few take over is not good. That is a pitfall of capitalism. Amongst all the good is the fact that capitalism breeds predators and sometimes they get too big. The ASIC manufactures are likely playing a rigged game. No pun intended. I have no problem with them making a profit, but outright stealing money from people to "test" units for months and profit insanely from that is hurting the foundation of cryptocurrency. The fact that devs can change some code and thwart this is the power of cryptocurrency. There is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that these ASIC manufacturers have manipulated the market too much and thus need to be kept in check.

@praxiscat Amen!

perhaps impose Mh/s limits on any one single worker?
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Btw. can you please disable the top wordpress-bar for non-admin/legitimate users (which are only registered for the votings) at the foundation website.

@functions.php
Code:
if(!current_user_can('manage_options')) 
{
    add_filter('show_admin_bar', '__return_false');
}

Fixed, thank you! For some reason testing the site under a normal user account slipped my mind Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I know that promotion for the coin is a very important part, but why does the dev try to ignore the technical part of the coin??
KnCminer just upgrades the Titan miner from 100Mhs to 250Mhs. You know what that means for scrypt coins?

In next 2 months, the most of us, normal / small miners who supported the coin from the start will be leaved and raped by just one Titan miner. Who will still support this coin at that time?? You think the profit miner who purchase those monsters will support the coin by mining it even if it is no longer profitable Huh

I still want to support this coin and still holding my 50k EMC2, but I don't think I can continue for long. To be honest I'm pretty sad that nobody in this thread cares about this.

well - perhaps you can look for a 10 fold increase in the value of the coins as they increase in value as the large miners mine coins faster and faster making them harder to get.

Huh
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
What's with all the sockpuppets?

also +1 @praxis

The times are changing and they know a few people will glance at their fuzzy mouth and say, "yeah, that makes sense." And even if it is just one, it's one more pocket to put their hand in.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 11
I know that promotion for the coin is a very important part, but why does the dev try to ignore the technical part of the coin??
KnCminer just upgrades the Titan miner from 100Mhs to 250Mhs. You know what that means for scrypt coins?

In next 2 months, the most of us, normal / small miners who supported the coin from the start will be leaved and raped by just one Titan miner. Who will still support this coin at that time?? You think the profit miner who purchase those monsters will support the coin by mining it even if it is no longer profitable Huh

I still want to support this coin and still holding my 50k EMC2, but I don't think I can continue for long. To be honest I'm pretty sad that nobody in this thread cares about this.

The devs are not ignoring the technical part of the coin. Taking they are spending significant amount of time looking at and testing right now to explore that possibility. As stated prevously this is being extensively discussed within the foundation and the option is being explored. Plus I think you posted this before, and got the same response. My reply also remains the same, switching the algorithm if it does happen is not an overnight task. It will take our developers time to impliment, and would be a one time thing if it does happen. Patience and realism are necessary.

I don't know why people are posting the same thing twice for the life of me.
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
I know that promotion for the coin is a very important part, but why does the dev try to ignore the technical part of the coin??
KnCminer just upgrades the Titan miner from 100Mhs to 250Mhs. You know what that means for scrypt coins?

In next 2 months, the most of us, normal / small miners who supported the coin from the start will be leaved and raped by just one Titan miner. Who will still support this coin at that time?? You think the profit miner who purchase those monsters will support the coin by mining it even if it is no longer profitable Huh

I still want to support this coin and still holding my 50k EMC2, but I don't think I can continue for long. To be honest I'm pretty sad that nobody in this thread cares about this.

The devs are doing something about this! Don't be discouraged. They are testing x11 on testnet and evaluating all options before moving forward with their game changer. This is all written in the pages of this forum. They are opening up debate again just to get a feel for what the community wants. There is no doubt that there is strong support for quick change in this matter and it is definitely on the plate right now.
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
What's with all the sockpuppets?

also +1 @praxis
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
Okay here is the deal. Cryptocurrency is a new thing. There is a solid argument for saying this new thing is more powerful the more decentralized it is. More security, less chance at 51% attack and more power in the hands of the masses who wish to get into the game or capitalize on this new opportunity. Capitalism is all fine and dandy in my world. It makes the world tick better than just about any other way at this point. Crony capitalism where a few take over is not good. That is a pitfall of capitalism. Amongst all the good is the fact that capitalism breeds predators and sometimes they get too big. The ASIC manufactures are likely playing a rigged game. No pun intended. I have no problem with them making a profit, but outright stealing money from people to "test" units for months and profit insanely from that is hurting the foundation of cryptocurrency. The fact that devs can change some code and thwart this is the power of cryptocurrency. There is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that these ASIC manufacturers have manipulated the market too much and thus need to be kept in check.

@praxiscat Amen!
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 11
1. The exchange arguement I am not even going to justify. I have purchased and traded for most of my coin on exchanges. They are a necessary part of the success of the coin.
2. This is more to the heart of the question. Is ASIC resistance necessary forever: NO. But having large ASICs early in the lifecycle of the coin can actually harm the coin. It would both create a big barrier for entry, and kill any chance we have at building a broader community over the next 8 months which will be critical. ASICs later can help maintain the network, those mining for 1 coin per block with the possibility of a wormhole will not make sense to be gpu miners. This is not about making the coin ASIC proof. This is really a matter of timing more than anything. While ASICs are going to happen with X11 (and any other algorithm) eventually, it may take 12-18 months, especially if the alternative algorithms are fragmented, which they have.
3. To those who say the ASICs may lift all scrypt coin boats, that is not really the case having large ones target a coin changes the dynmics, some smaller coins will be hurt, especially those in the startup phase as we are. It can centralize the network quickly as the coin is strip mined, with rapid difficulty increase, then dropped. The more mature ones will benefit. I think if the larger scale asics were six months out, I would say sticking to scrypt is fine. Again, as people have correctly observed, it's not the individuals with ASICs, it is the the large farms  from the manufacturers, and they are now 2-3 months out. This changes the dynamics significantly.
4. KGW is a defense against multipools, not ASICs.
5. The last part is important, this represents an opportunity to build a broader community by those now looking to leave scrypt coins and continue mining, small time miners who often are more apt to support a coin they can believe in, then dump a coin for a quick profit. It will also mean that at a key time our coin will be welcoming to newcomers. This broad community is critical for helping to fulfill our mission, at least I believe that, as they may be interested in giving a little extra projects because they believe in the mission. They may also be the ones who convince vendors, tell their friends, bring things up to the press, create things on their own, and open the doors to partnerships. A large ASIC farm is not going to care when we want to fill a funding target through a fundraiser which we may have been short with during the funding round. They will not want to create things involving the coin.  The reality of cryptocurrency, is they are more community based organisms then anything else. We are in our infancy there. We have the people in place to create this community, but the technology can easily cut that off. Because the smaller miners and newcomers, will be turned off because we are still scrypt, rightly or wrongly. Building a broad base is critical for our success, ASIC farms are not. Without a dispersed community, you really do not have much of a market for people to use this as a currency.
6. In terms of power savings, I can say where there may be no effeciency gain if it's optimized. At the same time the ease of use element is probably the biggest gain from X11.

Again, I am seeing this as somebody who literally is more interested in keeping this coin alive, meeting it's mission, then seeing it dead. While there will always be farms, ASIC or GPU, and people who dump for profit, early in a coins lifecycle it needs to build community. We may not get the chance to build this community if we stick to scrypt. Largely because those smaller miners that provide a broad base are going to be avoiding scrypt coins. We have an opportunity to open the door to the wider community by switching, I don't think it should be wasted. Building an economy around this coin means having more people around and a low barrier to entry early on. Not creating a massive barrier early in it's lifecycle.

Again these are my personal opinions.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
20 gridseeds and a rig with 5 MSI R9 280x's

a little of both - though I prefer the rig - it's fun - the gridseeds are just brainless pods. No fun but they pay the electric bill for the GPU's : LOL!

and my argument are real and legitimate - some folks here just refuse to acknowledge reality and want it both ways...and sorry - you can't have it both ways - sure you can go way of Ultracoin which no one is interested in and it's lack of value or evidence to that fact. I wouldn't waste one watt mining it. I'd rather burn a light all night - at least with the light bulb - I get something in return: LIGHT!



Have you read about the ASIC farms for bitcoin? I know it is unavoidable, but the manufacturers are the farmers. They took money from people like you investing in their ASICs and turned it into a huge profit making machine, likely before you get your units. Granted the gridseeds came out quickly and weren't really preorder or a long wait as far as I know. I like ASICs and the idea of it, but there is no regulation as far as how and when they can release their product. Bumping an already sold out unit by 150% is fishy. And it won't ship for who knows how many months? This is a classic example of technology being kept from the general public to enrich a few. It's almost depressing. Those gridseeds and the GPUs will soon get down to a dollar a mega hash a day. And it won't get better from there. The return on investment will likely be over one hundred days and by that point you won't be getting much actual profit. I understand that you can't have cake and eat it too, but when the idea hits the masses, they will turn off or switch rigs. They are doing that already.

it appears to me that you have a problem with capitalism - well - that's your problem not mine.

why is is that some people always need someone to blame?
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
Keep it coming guys - The whole team is reading every single post very interested!
We waited for the time when the discussion will take place so please dont let it die... discuss the x11 pro's and con's.

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)



That a nice thing ! Future are very good with this coin Smiley

Interesting about the power efficiency going down once the algo is fully optimized. Is there really 50% room to grow there? If so, this kind of sways me a bit into looking at a purely science/math benefiting algo. I don't think it will be nearly as popular as x11 though. Balance the potential popularity and thus price increase from x11 and the unpopular but science/math helpful algo. Which helps science/math more?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Btw. can you please disable the top wordpress-bar for non-admin/legitimate users (which are only registered for the votings) at the foundation website.

@functions.php
Code:
if(!current_user_can('manage_options')) 
{
    add_filter('show_admin_bar', '__return_false');
}


Have you figured out how to transfer the fund to the winner? If there are any news, please also update the twitter account so that we all can spread (or retweet Smiley) the word. It's too quiet there...

My bad - im the tchilp-guy Cheesy .. gonna boost that now!

I forwarded your suggestion to our webdev - Thanks for the advice !
member
Activity: 94
Merit: 10
20 gridseeds and a rig with 5 MSI R9 280x's

a little of both - though I prefer the rig - it's fun - the gridseeds are just brainless pods. No fun but they pay the electric bill for the GPU's : LOL!

and my argument are real and legitimate - some folks here just refuse to acknowledge reality and want it both ways...and sorry - you can't have it both ways - sure you can go way of Ultracoin which no one is interested in and it's lack of value or evidence to that fact. I wouldn't waste one watt mining it. I'd rather burn a light all night - at least with the light bulb - I get something in return: LIGHT!



Have you read about the ASIC farms for bitcoin? I know it is unavoidable, but the manufacturers are the farmers. They took money from people like you investing in their ASICs and turned it into a huge profit making machine, likely before you get your units. Granted the gridseeds came out quickly and weren't really preorder or a long wait as far as I know. I like ASICs and the idea of it, but there is no regulation as far as how and when they can release their product. Bumping an already sold out unit by 150% is fishy. And it won't ship for who knows how many months? This is a classic example of technology being kept from the general public to enrich a few. It's almost depressing. Those gridseeds and the GPUs will soon get down to a dollar a mega hash a day. And it won't get better from there. The return on investment will likely be over one hundred days and by that point you won't be getting much actual profit. I understand that you can't have cake and eat it too, but when the idea hits the masses, they will turn off or switch rigs. They are doing that already.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
20 gridseeds and a rig with 5 MSI R9 280x's

a little of both - though I prefer the rig - it's fun - the gridseeds are just brainless pods. No fun but they pay the electric bill for the GPU's : LOL!

and my argument are real and legitimate - some folks here just refuse to acknowledge reality and want it both ways...and sorry - you can't have it both ways - sure you can go way of Ultracoin which no one is interested in and it's lack of value or evidence to that fact. I wouldn't waste one watt mining it. I'd rather burn a light all night - at least with the light bulb - I get something in return: LIGHT!

HwM
member
Activity: 119
Merit: 10
I'm going to keep my observations brief and succinct.

Those among you who are complaining are getting exactly what you asked for and now you don't like it.

YOU are the ones who begged people to vote to get this coin listed on exchanges and now you're complaining about the attention you're being given as a coin.

You could limit this coin to only being mined by dilythium crystals and still creative developers would some how find a way to circumvent your road blocks and utilize technology to get a leg up on the mining competition. Change and advancement are inevitable are like a runaway train - can never be stopped.

You wanted a monetary value set on your coins and now the people who make their business leveraging the monetary value of literally anything are set to pounce with newer and faster technology and you don't like it - so you're solution is to go back to the stone age... I think Albert Einstein would be sadly disappointed.

You can resist change or you can embrace and exploit it when it comes - SO WHAT if people can mine your coin faster. Are you coin hogs afraid that it will drive down the value of your nest eggs or are you really altruistic and protecting the coin?

I have a solution for you. If you are really as altruistic as you profess to be then pursue will all possible diligence having the coin removed from all exchanges then mining will only be done by those truly interested in the coin for it's implied value and not it's monetary value - but as long as you stay listed on exchanges, the coin will posses a monetary value and be mined as quickly as possible by those who can for it's value - so it's simple - remove it's value and they asic whales will simply ignore you.

my humble .00000002



ASIC miner yourself right? Haha, so obvious. You don't even try to come up with real arguments.

legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1000
Keep it coming guys - The whole team is reading every single post very interested!
We waited for the time when the discussion will take place so please dont let it die... discuss the x11 pro's and con's.

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)



That a nice thing ! Future are very good with this coin Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1000
Basically we should centralize the price of EMC2? Would not work very well in crypto land.

well then - you can't have your cake and eat it to....



Patience... Take a time off computer,enjoy the life and think about you do something very nice ! Mining again cancer,and next month other good move for all of us Smiley
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Keep it coming guys - The whole team is reading every single post very interested!
We waited for the time when the discussion will take place so please dont let it die... discuss the x11 pro's and con's.

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)

--
Bounties:
The bountys are out of personal stash and - Please dont forget this: There is still .5% in the funding wallet dedicated for marketing purpose. Currently we are pinning a list internally with stuff what an urgent todo is and could be 'outsourced' :-).

member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
Nice to see bounties being put in place here. Where are you guys getting the funds tho? Your own personal stash? Good leadership
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
Basically we should centralize the price of EMC2? Would not work very well in crypto land.

well then - you can't have your cake and eat it to....


I think what many of you fail to recognize is that these expensive mining rigs add ligitimacy to the world of virtual currency mining and you folks and this industry will stopped being viewed as a bunch of social hermits hovering in their basements over mining rigs.

People and companies sit up and take notice when intelligent people plop down $15k for a serious mining rig and a rising tide raises all ships. These new rigs will raise the value of all coins, not diminish the value because they coins just like bitcoin will become harder and harder to mine.

my .0000003 this time.

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