[ANN][KMD][dPoW] Komodo - An Open, Composable Smart Chain Platform, Secured by B - page 532.

6436346346

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Quote from: jl777 on March 13, 2017, 01:34:39 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Quote
On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or blockchain, which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins. On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol. This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.

The highlighted portion is essentially what has happened. The difference is that bitcoin knew about it for over a week, while we didnt find out about it until the attack was under way. Also, I announced in realtime block 235300, which is the stopping of a chain.

If there is a bug in the future that allows to totally bypass the coin emission, then we will fix that to. You can count on that.

Who replaces the coins dumped on exchanges once the exchanges rollback the transactions?

boomboom

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Quote from: bumbacoin on March 13, 2017, 01:39:56 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

invoking the slippery slope fallacy?

the fear of centralised control vs hyperinflation via malicious exploit, hardly seems a reason to fear big brother fucking with our chain.

Not sure what youmean exactly, there are infinite reasons people might want a rollback, not just bigbrother, that's the point, it's possible now in komodo ecosystem with this precedent, so it's a huge unknown risk factor for all users from now on. Nobody can say it wouldn't happen again in a way that disadvantages regular users, just can't say that ever again. We have lost the claim to immutable blockchain, forever.

boomboom

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Quote from: jl777 on March 13, 2017, 01:34:39 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Quote
On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or blockchain, which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins. On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol. This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.

The highlighted portion is essentially what has happened. The difference is that bitcoin knew about it for over a week, while we didnt find out about it until the attack was under way. Also, I announced in realtime block 235300, which is the stopping of a chain.

If there is a bug in the future that allows to totally bypass the coin emission, then we will fix that to. You can count on that.

I'm on your side James, just playing the devil's advocate to make you think it through as many people wont hear of this until after it's over. I hope you're right!

bumbacoin

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Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

invoking the slippery slope fallacy?

the fear of centralised control vs hyperinflation via malicious exploit, hardly seems a reason to fear big brother fucking with our chain.

polycryptoblog

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Activity: 383

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Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

You said it yourself an exploitable bug. Something that should not have been there. No reason to keep it in when It was not supposed to be there in the first place

Comparing this to the Bter hack is disingenuous as well as that was a 3rd party exchange that got hacked and not the system itself.

jl777

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Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Quote
On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or blockchain, which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins. On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol. This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.

The highlighted portion is essentially what has happened. The difference is that bitcoin knew about it for over a week, while we didnt find out about it until the attack was under way. Also, I announced in realtime block 235300, which is the stopping of a chain.

If there is a bug in the future that allows to totally bypass the coin emission, then we will fix that to. You can count on that.

super55

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Quote from: antaja on March 13, 2017, 01:16:35 AM

why does a few hours rollback is worse than letting millions of coins created by the exploiter exists?

Because we live in a crazy world today where people who stolen millions of coins are rewarded and praised..but people who tried to do the right things to stop a thief are being crucified.

If we took away humanity value from technology, that will bring a great disaster.
If rollback to stop the bad people is consider wrong...i rather go back to fiat.

boomboom

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Quote from: polycryptoblog on March 13, 2017, 01:24:51 AM

I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

No , the attacker found an exploitable bug, and the blockchain is being rewound to undo it, but now we all can ask, 'what else would warrant rewind of blockchain', and this is the problem.

boomboom

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Activity: 1068

Merit: 523

Quote from: CoollerOne on March 13, 2017, 01:22:42 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:19:35 AM

Quote from: CryptoGuu on March 13, 2017, 01:15:03 AM

don't want to deal with this shit - i'm out.

I know how you feel,but it's early morning in europe, and most usa people probably in bed, so I feel the voices in support of no rollback will hear of this too late.

I want to 'not' deal with it too, but this is an existential crisis for SuperNET and komodo, right now!

I suggest we all see the gravity of the situation, and try and make the best decision.

I think you have made your point multiple times by now. They are rolling back the chain. Nothing can be done already. Just hope for the best ...

Yes, I tried, very unfortunate many stakeholders will only hear of this after the event.

polycryptoblog

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I support the roll back. Arguments of blockchain immutability are irrelevant here as the attackers actions rendered the blockchain mutable

CoollerOne

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Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:19:35 AM

Quote from: CryptoGuu on March 13, 2017, 01:15:03 AM

don't want to deal with this shit - i'm out.

I know how you feel,but it's early morning in europe, and most usa people probably in bed, so I feel the voices in support of no rollback will hear of this too late.

I want to 'not' deal with it too, but this is an existential crisis for SuperNET and komodo, right now!

I suggest we all see the gravity of the situation, and try and make the best decision.

I think you have made your point multiple times by now. They are rolling back the chain. Nothing can be done already. Just hope for the best ...

6436346346

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Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:19:35 AM

Quote from: CryptoGuu on March 13, 2017, 01:15:03 AM

don't want to deal with this shit - i'm out.

I know how you feel,but it's early morning in europe, and most usa people probably in bed, so I feel the voices in support of no rollback will hear of this too late.

I want to 'not' deal with it too, but this is an existential crisis for SuperNET and komodo, right now!

I suggest we all see the gravity of the situation, and try and make the best decision.

They just emailed Cryptopia 5 mins ago, so clearly they only care about their Trex listing

Oh well, good luck to them.

boomboom

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Quote from: CryptoGuu on March 13, 2017, 01:15:03 AM

don't want to deal with this shit - i'm out.

I know how you feel,but it's early morning in europe, and most usa people probably in bed, so I feel the voices in support of no rollback will hear of this too late.

I want to 'not' deal with it too, but this is an existential crisis for SuperNET and komodo, right now!

I suggest we all see the gravity of the situation, and try and make the best decision.

ocminer

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Suprnova is rolling back the chain now, should be back up in a few mins

antaja

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why does a few hours rollback is worse than letting millions of coins created by the exploiter exists?

boomboom

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Quote from: MoveCrypto on March 13, 2017, 01:08:36 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:07:17 AM

Quote from: CoollerOne on March 13, 2017, 01:03:25 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 12:59:30 AM

Quesfion, how much would you pay for a piece of marketing that proved SuperNET believed in the immutability of the KMD blockchain, and the foundation principle of decentralisation. Would it be worth 2M kmd to make a statement to the crypto community ... Komodo & SuperNET will uphold decentralisation and have an immutable blockchain, no matter what.

The NXT devs not rolling back the bter hack was a great statement, first time I heard andreas antonopolous mention NXT was discussing the 'no' vote, it was a great moment for NXT.

If other exchanges' wallets are not in maintenance right now, he'll probably be dumping there right now.

There is great damage to kmd today no matter what, all I'm doing is asking people to think which is least worst outcome, not from an insider perspective, but from a future investor perspective. Rollback destroys credibility, hacks come and go. Pick the least worst outcome, not the knee jerk one.

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 12:59:30 AM

Quesfion, how much would you pay for a piece of marketing that proved SuperNET believed in the immutability of the KMD blockchain, and the foundation principle of decentralisation. Would it be worth 2M kmd to make a statement to the crypto community ... Komodo & SuperNET will uphold decentralisation and have an immutable blockchain, no matter what.

The NXT devs not rolling back the bter hack was a great statement, first time I heard andreas antonopolous mention NXT was discussing the 'no' vote, it was a great moment for NXT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Quote

On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or blockchain, which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins. On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol. This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.

In 2010 there was no competition, and not the level of trolling etc like now. Also, in 2010 bitcoin had no real value, but today crypto economy is 20 billion, and there's plenty to lose from a rollback, not like bitcoin in 2010. The market wont forgive this!

CryptoGuu

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don't want to deal with this shit - i'm out.

boomboom

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Quote from: CoollerOne on March 13, 2017, 12:56:29 AM

So strange, 2 accounts are actively, I would even say desperately asking to make a deal with the attacker and 10-15 are saying naah, that's OK, let's do it.

The decision was made already. There is no need to ask how much he wants. He'll get nothing.

Yes, I have invested heavily in all jl777's projects since 2014, and I fear a rollback is suicide, so I'm really upset by this, but I know from past experience that jl777 is a smart guy, so I'm trying to persuade him. The decision can be reversed before the fork, I hope anyway.

CoollerOne

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Looks like Bitcoin's price didn't suffer too much since then.

MoveCrypto

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move that crypto

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 01:07:17 AM

Quote from: CoollerOne on March 13, 2017, 01:03:25 AM

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 12:59:30 AM

Quesfion, how much would you pay for a piece of marketing that proved SuperNET believed in the immutability of the KMD blockchain, and the foundation principle of decentralisation. Would it be worth 2M kmd to make a statement to the crypto community ... Komodo & SuperNET will uphold decentralisation and have an immutable blockchain, no matter what.

The NXT devs not rolling back the bter hack was a great statement, first time I heard andreas antonopolous mention NXT was discussing the 'no' vote, it was a great moment for NXT.

If other exchanges' wallets are not in maintenance right now, he'll probably be dumping there right now.

There is great damage to kmd today no matter what, all I'm doing is asking people to think which is least worst outcome, not from an insider perspective, but from a future investor perspective. Rollback destroys credibility, hacks come and go. Pick the least worst outcome, not the knee jerk one.

Quote from: boomboom on March 13, 2017, 12:59:30 AM

Quesfion, how much would you pay for a piece of marketing that proved SuperNET believed in the immutability of the KMD blockchain, and the foundation principle of decentralisation. Would it be worth 2M kmd to make a statement to the crypto community ... Komodo & SuperNET will uphold decentralisation and have an immutable blockchain, no matter what.

The NXT devs not rolling back the bter hack was a great statement, first time I heard andreas antonopolous mention NXT was discussing the 'no' vote, it was a great moment for NXT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin

Quote

On 6 August 2010, a major vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol was spotted. Transactions weren't properly verified before they were included in the transaction log or blockchain, which let users bypass bitcoin's economic restrictions and create an indefinite number of bitcoins. On 15 August, the vulnerability was exploited; over 184 billion bitcoins were generated in a transaction, and sent to two addresses on the network. Within hours, the transaction was spotted and erased from the transaction log after the bug was fixed and the network forked to an updated version of the bitcoin protocol. This was the only major security flaw found and exploited in bitcoin's history.

Topic: [ANN][KMD][dPoW] Komodo - An Open, Composable Smart Chain Platform, Secured by B - page 532. (Read 1192398 times)