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Topic: [Announcement] Avalon ASIC Development Status [Batch #1] - page 29. (Read 155335 times)

member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
I think the demonstration event has been mentioned at the first (around late Sep. ?). but please let Yifu to re-explain it later, he is at the meeting in Macau


Which one is you?
Better question:

Who is each individual at the table? What do they each do for Avalon?

... and who is the dude with a waitress and a chick on the far right?
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10



If you guys at Avalon are confident of your process, tech and timeline why wouldn't you open up more capacity to accept orders from disenchanted customers of competitors?

This would make total sense. If your second shipment can beat BFL's first, a lot of people would switch, I'm sure. I for one would have to do some serious soul searching for sure after a bunch of layers of BS from BFL Smiley
legendary
Activity: 4592
Merit: 1851
Linux since 1997 RedHat 4
Well, to be blunt, I'm not sure why the Avalon team wanted to join the word war ... but I guess it's 3 now in that Tongue
... at least until one team releases some ASIC Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Probably the only one experienced from BFL team was the "old nice looking lady soldering singles" picture , but unfortunately even that picture was removed from their website lately. So guess what no one of the "experienced" employes left Grin
I am just wondering who will solder BFL ASIC's as long as lady has gone??? Huh

Josh + pajamas = soldering machine!
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1028
Time until Inaba/BFL_Josh comes to defend BFL in this thread:
5... 4... 3...
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1000
Probably the only one experienced from BFL team was the "old nice looking lady soldering singles" picture , but unfortunately even that picture was removed from their website lately. So guess what no one of the "experienced" employes left Grin
I am just wondering who will solder BFL ASIC's as long as lady has gone??? Huh

PS:Just found it in Google cache...
It is prety obvious that she is in top form and 1000+ Asics for 10 days are not an issue for her Shocked

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=butterflylabs.com&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=629&tbm=isch&tbnid=9lBP555L_b3bQM:&imgrefurl=http://www.butterflylabs.com/november-production-update/&docid=T43Z4PKGlpzzdM&imgurl=http://butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IMG_1815.jpg&w=800&h=884&ei=DP_AUOiAGKnE4gTvioDgAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=769&vpy=280&dur=7869&hovh=236&hovw=214&tx=98&ty=193&sig=100595112714249957668&page=4&tbnh=132&tbnw=143&start=55&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:59,s:0,i:268
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1006
The BFL reps responded to one of Avalons claims...with very vague mentions of a ~unique~ workflow arrangement enabling them to do...well, the impossible. (IMO)

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/500-josh-plz-give-us-some-comments-about.html#post7363
hm..

Quote

While I appreciate the technical prowess of the Avalon team, the fact of the matter is they simply don't have the resources or experience we have in this area.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


*deep breath*
...oh shit.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

are they being serious?


experience in what? delaying shit so many times?
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Actually I'm beginning to believe that's *THE ONLY* BFL rep and his response was as usual completely meaningless.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1003
The BFL reps responded to one of Avalons claims...with very vague mentions of a ~unique~ workflow arrangement enabling them to do...well, the impossible. (IMO)

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/500-josh-plz-give-us-some-comments-about.html#post7363
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
...and for this bASIC customer. Stress is high, though it'd be higher if deadlines were made and broken every two weeks instead of two months.
legendary
Activity: 2955
Merit: 1049
I wish all of the ASIC bitcoin companies were this open and honest about their process and status. Everyone would sleep more soundly.
+1
yes this could be fine for us
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
I wish all of the ASIC bitcoin companies were this open and honest about their process and status. Everyone would sleep more soundly.
I sleep just fine, tyvm. Maybe you should see a doctor?
hero member
Activity: 481
Merit: 500
I wish all of the ASIC bitcoin companies were this open and honest about their process and status. Everyone would sleep more soundly.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
So what was supposed to take 25 days from Halloween?
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
My understanding is that these clock buffer adjustments were made as soon as they figured out their first batch of chips wouldn't work (late October).  They aren't still making any adjustments, they are just waiting on the newly-adjusted chips to arrive.

It is quite a cost, but consider that timing is everything in this ASIC battle.  BFL spending a couple hundred thousand to avoid having to way 4-6 weeks for a sample to be cut and THEN order new wafers and wait for those as well could be a smart move.  Making customers wait another 4-6 weeks could be a reputation killer, and $200k might be a small price to pay to keep their existing preorders and reputation intact.  I'm sure they don't like that they had to spend that much money, but they couldn't wait for new samples before putting in an order for their new wafers - it would kill them as a competitor in this race.  I'm sure they're crossing their fingers that the new chips work just as much as everyone who ordered from them is.  Wink

you don't adjust chips. period.

You can add crap the the board to fix a leak or add voltage or capacitance. That's about it. If there was anything wrong with the chips whatsoever it's a respin at best, and worse a whole redo of the mask. That's 30-90 days of fail.

so everyone who gets a first gen BFL SC before whatever the real problem is fixed is getting a quick fix prototype board at best.
That's exactly what they said it was - a respin.  And that's exactly how long it is taking - 30-90 days (specifically, I'd say about 50 days at this point from late October to December 11th).  So why do you think it is NOT a respin or mask do-over?
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
My understanding is that these clock buffer adjustments were made as soon as they figured out their first batch of chips wouldn't work (late October).  They aren't still making any adjustments, they are just waiting on the newly-adjusted chips to arrive.

It is quite a cost, but consider that timing is everything in this ASIC battle.  BFL spending a couple hundred thousand to avoid having to way 4-6 weeks for a sample to be cut and THEN order new wafers and wait for those as well could be a smart move.  Making customers wait another 4-6 weeks could be a reputation killer, and $200k might be a small price to pay to keep their existing preorders and reputation intact.  I'm sure they don't like that they had to spend that much money, but they couldn't wait for new samples before putting in an order for their new wafers - it would kill them as a competitor in this race.  I'm sure they're crossing their fingers that the new chips work just as much as everyone who ordered from them is.  Wink

you don't adjust chips. period.

You can add crap the the board to fix a leak or add voltage or capacitance. That's about it. If there was anything wrong with the chips whatsoever it's a respin at best, and worse a whole redo of the mask. That's 30-90 days of fail.

so everyone who gets a first gen BFL SC before whatever the real problem is fixed is getting a quick fix prototype board at best.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
1. If BFL really have chips coming, then they are not making any so-to-speak "clock buffer adjustments", either that or they don't have any chips coming and have not tape-out at all, it is also entirely possible that they have not make the MASK yet either. I guess we will find out on the week of the 11th, in this month hopefully.
My understanding is that these clock buffer adjustments were made as soon as they figured out their first batch of chips wouldn't work (late October).  They aren't still making any adjustments, they are just waiting on the newly-adjusted chips to arrive.


I wonder what price BFL is getting their 300mm 65nm wafers for, if Avalon is paying 4k for a 110nm wafer? Even if they pay half of what Avalon is due to their higher volume, their 100k chip order would be worth $200k.
They better hope the chips work this time.

i think the wafer cost is rather low than the MASK cost @ 65nm.. ...
Maybe I was misunderstood. BFL is probably getting around 1000 chips out of a 300mm wafer, so their order for a 100k chips would be about 100 wafers. The mask costs will be large, but ordering a couple to several hundred thousand dollars worth of wafers on top of your mask costs without doing a small run to test it just seems very risky.
It is quite a cost, but consider that timing is everything in this ASIC battle.  BFL spending a couple hundred thousand to avoid having to way 4-6 weeks for a sample to be cut and THEN order new wafers and wait for those as well could be a smart move.  Making customers wait another 4-6 weeks could be a reputation killer, and $200k might be a small price to pay to keep their existing preorders and reputation intact.  I'm sure they don't like that they had to spend that much money, but they couldn't wait for new samples before putting in an order for their new wafers - it would kill them as a competitor in this race.  I'm sure they're crossing their fingers that the new chips work just as much as everyone who ordered from them is.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1026
In Cryptocoins I Trust
It's interesting to hear your point of view of the competitors. My opinion is similar, but I am a customer so I'm biased.

I agree bASIC/BFL have been doing shady things, they lost my trust weeks ago.

Keep doing honest business Avalon, and the customers will come.
hero member
Activity: 1078
Merit: 502
I love how much detail you guys release. Great job Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 295
Merit: 250
@ Ngzhang

Why does it say under one of the (online forms) that it failed the DRC check? (Design Rule Check)

Is that because you did something unusual with the chip that the DRC would fail the automatic checks?


never mind, it's just a option to avoid some unnecessary trouble. 

Well let's hope it doesn't cause any unnecessary trouble. Letting some things through DRC can cause people to overlook an important thing or two.
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