[ANN][SIM] Simcoin - A Simple Coin - page 43.

onemorebtc

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Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 05:32:34 PM

@onemorebtc: yeah, like scam-clones are gonna respect the license

What's next, patenting my algorithms? Grin

why not?

Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 05:32:34 PM

If a clone ever gets to a point where you can sue them, then you have no moral right to do so - it's a legitimate clone, this should be allowed.

nice answer and you are right Wink

but i dont think ANY clone could have access with users when they all think that they may have to pay for the code they are using

NxtChg

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Simcoin Developer

Quote from: mcjavar on June 02, 2014, 05:32:18 PM

Are you sure that this is the way to interact with your investors?

You too?! What is it today, a solar storm?

Do you want your share diluted more? Then, sure, I can give all the progress reports you want...

NxtChg

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Simcoin Developer

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 05:18:00 PM

This has some downsides to it as well of course. Beginning with the additional two fold work and surely a lot more.

All these solutions have one major drawback - they erode confidence.

Open source protects users. Limiting it requires more trust in developers and they already have way too much power...

---

@onemorebtc: yeah, like scam-clones are gonna respect the license

What's next, patenting my algorithms? Grin

If a clone ever gets to a point where you can sue them, then you have no moral right to do so - it's a legitimate clone, this should be allowed.

mcjavar

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Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 02:08:41 PM

Quote from: mcjavar on June 02, 2014, 10:41:42 AM

Any update on the developments?

I am satisfied with the progress, that's all I can say at the moment

Are you sure that this is the way to interact with your investors?

onemorebtc

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

what do you think about the idea to put a license in there which forbids uses of another genesis block or does not follow simcoin proto rules?

^^ you dont have to sue before they really have big money (if any) Wink

Secondleo

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Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 04:32:14 PM

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 04:12:48 PM

Did you consider keeping part of the project closed source?

Well, I have to take clones into consideration, that's for sure. At first I planned to put as much info on the wiki as possible, but then looked at the current altcoin scene and changed my mind.

Open source is great, but when it comes to dealing with money it results in a lot of harmful noise and confusion.

And it would be ridiculous if your ideas appeared in some scam coin first: not only you would look like a copycat later, but the users would now have strong negative emotions attached to these ideas!

So if anyone has any thoughts about how to protect against scam-clones, I'd like to hear it.

No solution seems good: traps in code, delay source code release by a version or two, keeping a part closed, they are all bad... Sad

I think a closed source might get interesting if you provide a) an alternative and b) an incentive to use the closed source application.
So, a part of the system is handed as a pretty shitty but working version, open source. At the same time an alternative piece of code/app is there, that is 100% compatible with the network, works like a charm but is closed source.

This has some downsides to it as well of course. Beginning with the additional two fold work and surely a lot more.

I'll think a bit more about the pros and cons and such.

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 04:12:48 PM

Did you consider keeping part of the project closed source?

Well, I have to take clones into consideration, that's for sure. At first I planned to put as much info on the wiki as possible, but then looked at the current altcoin scene and changed my mind.

Open source is great, but when it comes to dealing with money it results in a lot of harmful noise and confusion.

And it would be ridiculous if your ideas appeared in some scam coin first: not only you would look like a copycat later, but the users would now have strong negative emotions attached to these ideas!

So if anyone has any thoughts about how to protect against scam-clones, I'd like to hear it.

No solution seems good: traps in code, delay source code release by a version or two, keeping a part closed, they are all bad... Sad

Secondleo

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Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 02:52:24 PM

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

If someone is already in the system and has 10000 sim. He then goes on and creates 10000 "fake" nodes, all with one Sim in them. How are cases like this handled?
Also, what keeps those nodes behaving in a malicious way like fast building an alternate Blockchain they all vote on?
What cost are involved for a node if it casts a vote for the next block?

There will be no blocks or blockchain, but I see your point. This is exactly what I am working on right now - finalizing how consensus will work.

I'd like to discuss it, but unfortunately can't reveal it just yet - this is the core of the system, I need to protect you, as investors, from clones until Simcoin is released.

Once it's working on the Test Net we can discuss how to improve it further.

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

...in which only nodes count...

That's not PoS then, is it?

That's failure.

Basic idea will be the same - to subvert the system you will need the majority of stake.

I am working on the details (in fact just spent most of my working hours today thinking about it) since I am close to testing first transactions.

The problem gets even more complicated when you factor in the possibility of DDoS attacks, as well as several other issues.

I am trying my best to find an optimal solution...

And some say you're not good at marketing.
I'm intrigued to see what finally comes from the project and if it really works. I wouldn't even be mad about grand comedy Cheesy

That brings me to another point though.

Did you consider keeping part of the project closed source? Only offering up the crypto core of the project while keeping the client closed source for example.
I was never able to determine if I think such an approach is in conclusion benefitial or bad for a coin.
Both sides seem to have equal pros and cons.

What do you think about something like that?

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

If someone is already in the system and has 10000 sim. He then goes on and creates 10000 "fake" nodes, all with one Sim in them. How are cases like this handled?
Also, what keeps those nodes behaving in a malicious way like fast building an alternate Blockchain they all vote on?
What cost are involved for a node if it casts a vote for the next block?

There will be no blocks or blockchain, but I see your point. This is exactly what I am working on right now - finalizing how consensus will work.

I'd like to discuss it, but unfortunately can't reveal it just yet - this is the core of the system, I need to protect you, as investors, from clones until Simcoin is released.

Once it's working on the Test Net we can discuss how to improve it further.

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

...in which only nodes count...

That's not PoS then, is it?

That's failure.

Basic idea will be the same - to subvert the system you will need the majority of stake.

I am working on the details (in fact just spent most of my working hours today thinking about it) since I am close to testing first transactions.

The problem gets even more complicated when you factor in the possibility of DDoS attacks, as well as several other issues.

I am trying my best to find an optimal solution...

Secondleo

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 02:13:10 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

...i asked NxtChg to justify...

I don't have to justify anything to you.

Ok thats all, im shutting up after - this project is heading to failure, here is why

1. The dev seems to be lacking communication skills, doesnt know how to talk or answer criticism

2. Dev thinks he does't need people to invest and support his project [Possible not even to use his currency]

3. Dev history says he leaves his projects midway under slight criticism [NxtChg Exchange]

4. More than 50% currency held by a single person

The fourth point will be the death below because you only have one chance to form an image in people's mind. In this case the image is exactly like ripple. Laughing it off wont work in the future when you need people to adopt and use your currency.

Well, let me put it that way. Your F is still missing.
You obviously came here to critizise. Which is perfectly fine.
But it is obviously as well that you lack either the time or skill to properly read the OP, else you would have directly gone for the right amount of centralized coins.
As you didn't even read the OP properly it is highly likely you also didn't read the rest of the thread.
And now the circle closes.
The communication skills of the dev kept the thread clean and what is in here is important.
So, if you want to participate, go, read and get your facts straight.

There is also the option that you leave and open a hate thread somewhere else on the forum where it can be properly ignored.

Secondleo

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Quote from: NxtChg on June 02, 2014, 02:20:14 PM

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 09:44:08 AM

What about sybil attacks?

It seems people mean a bit different things here, when they talk about Sybil attacks.

As is, it doesn't apply to PoS systems: you can create fake nodes, but you can't convince the network that those nodes own real money unless you have valid private keys.

This means those nodes have no stake = no voice. The whole point of PoS is to protect against such attacks.

That is basically true. But I am not talking from an attack from the outside.
If someone is already in the system and has 10000 sim. He then goes on and creates 10000 "fake" nodes, all with one Sim in them. How are cases like this handled?
Also, what keeps those nodes behaving in a malicious way like fast building an alternate Blockchain they all vote on?
What cost are involved for a node if it casts a vote for the next block?

So, as for the Sybil attacks. There are basically the both extremes of centralization, where only coins count and the other extreme of decentralization in which only nodes count. As far as I know this is an important scale on which a POS coin has to place itself. The question on how easy a sybil attack is to perform versus how centralized the system is.
This becomes especially interesting concerning the plan to reward running nodes.

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 09:44:08 AM

What about sybil attacks?

It seems people mean a bit different things here, when they talk about Sybil attacks.

As is, it doesn't apply to PoS systems: you can create fake nodes, but you can't convince the network that those nodes own real money unless you have valid private keys.

This means those nodes have no stake = no voice. The whole point of PoS is to protect against such attacks.

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: ?? on ??

...i asked NxtChg to justify...

I don't have to justify anything to you.

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: mcjavar on June 02, 2014, 10:41:42 AM

Any update on the developments?

I am satisfied with the progress, that's all I can say at the moment

dzarmush

legendary

Activity: 1806

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Quote from: peled1986 on June 02, 2014, 01:27:43 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: dzarmush on June 01, 2014, 06:05:40 PM

Quote from: NxtChg on June 01, 2014, 04:14:28 PM

Quote from: marek3ball on June 01, 2014, 04:07:09 PM

This is not another IPO. It is unborn-coin inside another coin with trading possibility.

What, like a derivative?

There will be a real exchange in a few weeks after the IPO is closed.

It might be interesting. Let's say 200 BTC were invested. You release Sim asset on Nxt AE. 1 token for every 0.1 BTC invested, it means that 1 token represents 200'000 SIM (if I did the math right). So you release 2000 tokens and distribute them among investors. For instance, I invested 3.5 BTC, so I'm getting 35 tokens which represent 7'000'000 SIM. After you send tokens we're able to buy/sell them on AE. After you launch the coin asset owners send you tokens and get real coins for them.
Why would you do that?
1. Get some publicity before the launch. Lots new people will know about Sim after it goes to AE.
2. Trading would start long before the launch and the price would be growing with time. As closer the launch as higher the price.
3. Some people not just would know about Sim but into it before it even launched.
4. Just for lulz

bad idea

I don't understand your suggestion.
There is no point to go to Nxt AE while the IPO is still open here (price on AE will be the price here)
And when the IPO closes here there will be an exchange from sim.
so the only advantage is that it will let people that already invested in Sim and want to sell their stake @ market price / small loss.

Nobody reads prior to answer, right? Of course after IPO is over.

NxtChg said that the exchange will be launched in a few weeks. It might mean up to a couple of months. What's the reason to wait two months if you can start trading right from the first day IPO is over. By the time the exchange is launched a lot of people will be aware of Simcoin.

NxtChg

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1002

Simcoin Developer

Quote from: ?? on ??

Here are two private messages I received.... I asked about his personal comittment to this project.

Oh, how nice of you to post private messages in public...

So my first impression about you was right. I quote smaragda: welcome to my ignore list.

Secondleo

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Activity: 196

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Secondleo on June 02, 2014, 09:44:08 AM

Quote from: GTO911 on June 02, 2014, 05:51:21 AM

I have a question

Technically 20% of the total supply is yours, which is actually quite alarming. This will be the biggest held position in a crypto currency as far as i know.

Please justify

There's an F missing in your name.

But anyway.
I got a question on my own though.
I'm not sure if this came up in the thread up to this point. What about sybil attacks? How will Simcoin be protected from such a thread?
I assume the coin will use a proof of stake system and as such it will be especially suspectible against attacks of such type. As far as I know NXT tried to solve the issue with transparent forging, which in turn opened up a host of new problems.

Any ideas or plans to tackle the sybil issue?

I just asked a question so did you, shouldn't you also GET THE FUCK OF sir?

It's "out" good sir.

But anyway. I don't see the point where Nxtchg would start to explain in detail, why is holding 20% of the coin as development reserve. He is open about it, it is there for everyone to read.
Also, 20% held is not the biggest position in crypto world by far.
Also, I think technically he is holding 60% of the coins, not just 20%. After all there are other points on the list.

And well, if you don't like it, don't ~~invest~~ throw money at a strange on the internet.

mcjavar

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Any update on the developments?

shaman2000

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Activity: 133

Merit: 100

Hi everybody!
It seems like this very interesting project, but it must have a little bit more promotion things on facebook,tweeter and so on. in this case Dev. will take much quicker 200btc, but investors will have a little less coins. That's why no promotions of Simcoin? Grin

Secondleo

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Quote from: GTO911 on June 02, 2014, 05:51:21 AM

I have a question

Technically 20% of the total supply is yours, which is actually quite alarming. This will be the biggest held position in a crypto currency as far as i know.

Please justify

There's an F missing in your name.

But anyway.
I got a question on my own though.
I'm not sure if this came up in the thread up to this point. What about sybil attacks? How will Simcoin be protected from such a thread?
I assume the coin will use a proof of stake system and as such it will be especially suspectible against attacks of such type. As far as I know NXT tried to solve the issue with transparent forging, which in turn opened up a host of new problems.

Any ideas or plans to tackle the sybil issue?

Topic: [ANN][SIM] Simcoin - A Simple Coin - page 43. (Read 157763 times)