ANTMINER S3+ Discussion and Support Thread - page 183.

visdude

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Quote from: Count_Frackula on September 15, 2014, 05:36:14 PM

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 05:30:58 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on September 15, 2014, 04:37:53 PM

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

It's ONE per household per rebate offer/campaign and not for eternity and they occur pretty frequently; and I'm certain there are CREATIVE ways around such limitation. I've purchased CX500s at the Egg at a final cost as low as $9.99 ($39.99 list price minus $20 rebate minus $10 instant promo code discount). I have purchased several CX500s this way since the BFL Single SC days through the Cube era. I, in turn, had used the rebate VISA cards to purchase Egg gift cards and apply them to purchase more CX500s with ZERO out-of-pocket cost. That's the most bang for the buck for me.

If you use it for any length of time, the bronze will cost you more in the long run. Won't take long to recoup the $40-$50 you'd save having a gold 1300w PSU. Plus you need more outlets.

M

That's a fair assessment. It would be nice if you could illustrate the details of the figures though.

Off the top of my head, the difference between PSUs with 90% and 85% efficiency would be around 20WAC at the wall with a stock S3+ which equates to about 0.48kWh per day. At $0.12/kWh power rate, that's around $0.06/day difference. Therefore, $50 / $0.06 = 833 days = 28 months = 2.28 years to recoup a $50 difference in price. Is this what you had in mind?

Re needing more outlets, that's what power strips are for; and I've got enough of them already and I'm almost certain that most of us do. It could also be argued that using a single/dedicated PSU for each S3 eliminates a single point of failure of three S3s powered by a single PSU.

Assuming your electricity is $0.10/kwh, and you're using 100% of the rating's power.
400w = 444w from the wall (at 89% efficiency - Platinum) = $1.066/day = ~$389/year
400w = 452w from the wall (at 87% efficiency - Gold) = $1.085/day = ~$396/year
400w = 460w from the wall (at 85% efficiency - Silver) = $1.104/day = ~$403/year
400w = 472w from the wall (at 82% efficiency - Bronze) = $1.133/day = ~$414/year
400w = 472w from the wall (at 80% efficiency - Basic) = $1.152/day = ~$420/year

Ratings from Wikipedia
Keep in mind that EVGA has 10-year warranties on their high-end PSUs, so it's guaranteed to last that long - which is why that's what I'm using.

I think the Wikipedia chart that you are referring to is just a general guideline as opposed to actual 80 Plus Certification test results here that illustrates actual efficiency % at different load values of each PSU.

Count_Frackula

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Activity: 99

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Quote from: Dallski on September 15, 2014, 05:36:56 PM

Quote from: Biodom on September 15, 2014, 03:51:53 PM

Is anybody here an electric engineer:

please explain this: last night power went out (computer off, alarm clock, oven , etc), but not for long (I wasn't there so I can base it only on indirect evidence of electrical systems shutdown).
Three S3 miners are on one circuit, three on another. Two miners on each circuit show sharp drop down, then equally sharp recovery in hashing (which is expected).
However, one miner on each circuit shows ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on hashing, as if nothing happened.
How is this possible? I made a screen shot, so could document that it is what pool interface shows.
Basically, if power was off even for a few sec, then where the hashing was coming from since the pool shows it as uniterrupted?
Is there a buffer or maybe this couple did not fully shutdown if power was lost only for a fraction of a second?

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I've experienced similar anomalies. At first I thought maybe 1 phase was down and the other stayed alive, but even that's not accurate. I believe it goes down to the power supply in relation to the capacitors inside and the length of the outage. I've had power blips where 2 rigs were plugged into 1 outlet on 1 circuit, and 1 went down while the other mined through the power outage. I'm assuming the one that stayed alive had enough power in it's capacitors to keep the rig going, however momentarily.

Also, to get back to you, the reason I think batch 9 is ridiculous is not because of the price (I actually paid less because I bought it when btc was 465). It's the fact that they promised me September 20th delivery and the next batch has an earlier promised delivery date even though mine hasn't been shipped yet. Hopefully, I get the UPS notice in the next few hours (it's 6:30AM Beijing time), but I think people from early September orders are still waiting ahead of me.

Computers can do the same things. It's somewhat a matter of luck. PSUs have pretty large capacitors in them, designed to normalize power. They're basically big batteries. In cases of extremely short-term power outages, it is possible to completely lose power, but still have enough residual power where the device stays on for a matter of seconds. It's also why you see your lights turn off first, before your computer turns off a second or two later.

Dallski

newbie

Activity: 54

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Quote from: Biodom on September 15, 2014, 03:51:53 PM

Is anybody here an electric engineer:

please explain this: last night power went out (computer off, alarm clock, oven , etc), but not for long (I wasn't there so I can base it only on indirect evidence of electrical systems shutdown).
Three S3 miners are on one circuit, three on another. Two miners on each circuit show sharp drop down, then equally sharp recovery in hashing (which is expected).
However, one miner on each circuit shows ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on hashing, as if nothing happened.
How is this possible? I made a screen shot, so could document that it is what pool interface shows.
Basically, if power was off even for a few sec, then where the hashing was coming from since the pool shows it as uniterrupted?
Is there a buffer or maybe this couple did not fully shutdown if power was lost only for a fraction of a second?

I'm not an electrical engineer, but I've experienced similar anomalies. At first I thought maybe 1 phase was down and the other stayed alive, but even that's not accurate. I believe it goes down to the power supply in relation to the capacitors inside and the length of the outage. I've had power blips where 2 rigs were plugged into 1 outlet on 1 circuit, and 1 went down while the other mined through the power outage. I'm assuming the one that stayed alive had enough power in it's capacitors to keep the rig going, however momentarily.

Also, to get back to you, the reason I think batch 9 is ridiculous is not because of the price (I actually paid less because I bought it when btc was 465). It's the fact that they promised me September 20th delivery and the next batch has an earlier promised delivery date even though mine hasn't been shipped yet. Hopefully, I get the UPS notice in the next few hours (it's 6:30AM Beijing time), but I think people from early September orders are still waiting ahead of me.

Count_Frackula

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Activity: 99

Merit: 10

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 05:30:58 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on September 15, 2014, 04:37:53 PM

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

It's ONE per household per rebate offer/campaign and not for eternity and they occur pretty frequently; and I'm certain there are CREATIVE ways around such limitation. I've purchased CX500s at the Egg at a final cost as low as $9.99 ($39.99 list price minus $20 rebate minus $10 instant promo code discount). I have purchased several CX500s this way since the BFL Single SC days through the Cube era. I, in turn, had used the rebate VISA cards to purchase Egg gift cards and apply them to purchase more CX500s with ZERO out-of-pocket cost. That's the most bang for the buck for me.

If you use it for any length of time, the bronze will cost you more in the long run. Won't take long to recoup the $40-$50 you'd save having a gold 1300w PSU. Plus you need more outlets.

M

That's a fair assessment. It would be nice if you could illustrate the details of the figures though.

Off the top of my head, the difference between PSUs with 90% and 85% efficiency would be around 20WAC at the wall with a stock S3+ which equates to about 0.48kWh per day. At $0.12/kWh power rate, that's around $0.06/day difference. Therefore, $50 / $0.06 = 833 days = 28 months = 2.28 years to recoup a $50 difference in price. Is this what you had in mind?

Re needing more outlets, that's what power strips are for; and I've got enough of them already and I'm almost certain that most of us do. It could also be argued that using a single/dedicated PSU for each S3 eliminates a single point of failure of three S3s powered by a single PSU.

Assuming your electricity is $0.10/kwh, and you're using 100% of the rating's power.
400w = 444w from the wall (at 89% efficiency - Platinum) = $1.066/day = ~$389/year
400w = 452w from the wall (at 87% efficiency - Gold) = $1.085/day = ~$396/year
400w = 460w from the wall (at 85% efficiency - Silver) = $1.104/day = ~$403/year
400w = 472w from the wall (at 82% efficiency - Bronze) = $1.133/day = ~$414/year
400w = 472w from the wall (at 80% efficiency - Basic) = $1.152/day = ~$420/year

Ratings from Wikipedia
Keep in mind that EVGA has 10-year warranties on their high-end PSUs, so it's guaranteed to last that long - which is why that's what I'm using.

visdude

legendary

Activity: 1081

Merit: 1001

Quote from: mdude77 on September 15, 2014, 04:37:53 PM

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

It's ONE per household per rebate offer/campaign and not for eternity and they occur pretty frequently; and I'm certain there are CREATIVE ways around such limitation. I've purchased CX500s at the Egg at a final cost as low as $9.99 ($39.99 list price minus $20 rebate minus $10 instant promo code discount). I have purchased several CX500s this way since the BFL Single SC days through the Cube era. I, in turn, had used the rebate VISA cards to purchase Egg gift cards and apply them to purchase more CX500s with ZERO out-of-pocket cost. That's the most bang for the buck for me.

If you use it for any length of time, the bronze will cost you more in the long run. Won't take long to recoup the $40-$50 you'd save having a gold 1300w PSU. Plus you need more outlets.

M

That's a fair assessment. It would be nice if you could illustrate the details of the figures though.

Off the top of my head, the difference between PSUs with 90% and 85% efficiency would be around 20WAC at the wall with a stock S3+ which equates to about 0.48kWh per day. At $0.12/kWh power rate, that's around $0.06/day difference. Therefore, $50 / $0.06 = 833 days = 28 months = 2.28 years to recoup a $50 difference in price. Is this what you had in mind?

Re needing more outlets, that's what power strips are for; and I've got enough of them already and I'm almost certain that most of us do. It could also be argued that using a single/dedicated PSU for each S3 eliminates a single point of failure of three S3s powered by a single PSU.

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Quote from: bluecityste on September 15, 2014, 05:17:41 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on September 15, 2014, 04:32:33 PM

Quote from: bluecityste on September 15, 2014, 11:37:23 AM

Leaves a bit of a sower taste that someone who orders on the 19th will receive within a day or two of someone that ordered beginning of September.

Weird choices made by Bitmain

Actually ... I'd say weird choices by those placing pre-orders.

M

If there was any other option then I and most other people that want reasonably reliable, small footprint and cost effective hardware ($50 less per unit would be nice though!) would take it.

I'm guessing you know of another miner that has a similar price point and price per buck that is available from stock then?

It's a two step dance miners play with manufacturers. If their first step was pre-orders, and miner's response was "forget that" and ignored them, manufacturer's would change their tune.

M

bluecityste

newbie

Activity: 47

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Quote from: mdude77 on September 15, 2014, 04:32:33 PM

Quote from: bluecityste on September 15, 2014, 11:37:23 AM

Leaves a bit of a sower taste that someone who orders on the 19th will receive within a day or two of someone that ordered beginning of September.

Weird choices made by Bitmain

Actually ... I'd say weird choices by those placing pre-orders.

M

If there was any other option then I and most other people that want reasonably reliable, small footprint and cost effective hardware ($50 less per unit would be nice though!) would take it.

I'm guessing you know of another miner that has a similar price point and price per buck that is available from stock then?

Count_Frackula

member

Activity: 99

Merit: 10

Quote from: Biodom on September 15, 2014, 02:58:30 PM

Quote from: Ed on September 15, 2014, 02:19:51 PM

Quote from: Ustler on September 15, 2014, 02:18:11 PM

Same issue as baykan.
Sent the payment 5 mins after placing order..
Been 6 hours since I sent payment, still showing expired.

+1

to all worriers:
1. you don't have to do anything, they usually square it out in 24 hr.
2. if you still want to be proactive, email [email protected] (not the webmaster@) and include your transaction id.
3. Last, but not least, do not pay bitmain from coinbase as it often takes an hour to post the first confirm.

I had the same issue, actually. Paid from Cryptsy.
I'm guessing that Bitmain's site had some issues with confirming this morning. I emailed them anyway, just in case.

Quote from: mdude77 on September 15, 2014, 04:37:53 PM

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

It's ONE per household per rebate offer/campaign and not for eternity and they occur pretty frequently; and I'm certain there are CREATIVE ways around such limitation. I've purchased CX500s at the Egg at a final cost as low as $9.99 ($39.99 list price minus $20 rebate minus $10 instant promo code discount). I have purchased several CX500s this way since the BFL Single SC days through the Cube era. I, in turn, had used the rebate VISA cards to purchase Egg gift cards and apply them to purchase more CX500s with ZERO out-of-pocket cost. That's the most bang for the buck for me.

If you use it for any length of time, the bronze will cost you more in the long run. Won't take long to recoup the $40-$50 you'd save having a gold 1300w PSU. Plus you need more outlets.

M

I, personally, won't use less than a Gold certified. I currently run mine off EVGA's 1000W P2 (Platinum Certified). It's got a 10-year warranty as well, so it's guaranteed to last me almost forever.

IITravel01

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Activity: 338

Merit: 250

Quote from: visdude on September 14, 2014, 07:54:40 PM

Quote from: Stratobitz on September 13, 2014, 09:58:51 PM

Anyone think it would be possible to run (4) S3+ Units off a single EVGA 1300 G2... If perhaps I underclocked them a bit?

Wondering if the loss in hash would actually give better ROI using less PSUs.

Strato

At 80% load, an EVGA 1300 G2 with a 1300WDC maximum output on its single +12V rail would be approximately 91% efficient and draw around 1144WAC at the wall. This means that four S3s would have to be underclocked so each draw around 286WAC at the wall (1144WAC / 4); i.e. (1144WAC * 91%) / 1300WDC * 100. This should give you a reference point to realize your idea.

To go from 340-355watts down to 286watts seems like a long shot to get them working, let us know how it goes though.

soy

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Quote from: soy on September 15, 2014, 03:04:13 PM

Waiting since early this morning for my pair of S3+'s. UPS, signature required. It's 4PM. Just got a call from a neighbor. They have two packages addressed to me on their porch since around noon.

Have the two S3+'s up running after a comedy of errors, mine. They're running now something under 10 minutes, they've settled out at 461.12 & 464.57 @ 225. Almost tempts me to kick the S3's up to 225 but I know the one problem device will be difficult. One of the errors I made was to kill power while one was booting - I've found that to cause software errors later and that machine isn't giving an identity after the MAC address to nmap. No biggie.

The two miners are perfect externally, looking good. Haven't opened them yet. Will eventually to put wifi antennae.

mdude77

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Activity: 1540

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Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 04:29:32 PM

It's ONE per household per rebate offer/campaign and not for eternity and they occur pretty frequently; and I'm certain there are CREATIVE ways around such limitation. I've purchased CX500s at the Egg at a final cost as low as $9.99 ($39.99 list price minus $20 rebate minus $10 instant promo code discount). I have purchased several CX500s this way since the BFL Single SC days through the Cube era. I, in turn, had used the rebate VISA cards to purchase Egg gift cards and apply them to purchase more CX500s with ZERO out-of-pocket cost. That's the most bang for the buck for me.

If you use it for any length of time, the bronze will cost you more in the long run. Won't take long to recoup the $40-$50 you'd save having a gold 1300w PSU. Plus you need more outlets.

M

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Quote from: bluecityste on September 15, 2014, 11:37:23 AM

Leaves a bit of a sower taste that someone who orders on the 19th will receive within a day or two of someone that ordered beginning of September.

Weird choices made by Bitmain

Actually ... I'd say weird choices by those placing pre-orders.

M

visdude

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Activity: 1081

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Bitkoinzz on September 15, 2014, 08:19:11 AM

Quote from: visdude on September 15, 2014, 01:52:25 AM

Quote from: mdude77 on September 14, 2014, 07:46:22 PM

Quote from: Stratobitz on September 14, 2014, 07:24:48 PM

The Ax1200i really is a top notch PSU. I didn't actually buy them for the S3 units, I had 4 left over from my Litecoin GPU rigs that I've long since shut down.

But running 3 S3 units has been no problem. The PSU fan doesn't even seem to be at full speed. They've been running for weeks.

Room temperature may also affect the draw. Our Ants are in a cool server room, which helps keep them and the PSU cool. I'm also on filtered AC Power. So voltage off the wall might also factor into it. If off the wall you're Voltage is 116 vs 110, that's a 5% increase in power input.

Our large order of S3+ Units come in Tuesday (BitMain Shipping Confirmed Yesterday). We've bought a dozen EVGA 1300 G2 Units. I am going to see how they compare.

Hoping I may be able to squeeze in 4 Units per 1300 even if I have to underclock. I'll post results and use my kill-a-watt to get you all numbers.

Strato

The Ax1200i may be top notch, but I don't understand the desire to throw money at it unless it's for fun.

For less than half of that I can get a Rosewill Lightning Gold 1300W PSU. I know it can run three S3s because I've used it to drive three OC'd S1s without a problem.

I think the only think the Ax1200i has going for it is it is pretty. Seriously. Well, alright, you can connect it up to a PC to see real time values.

Otherwise, they look identical, except the Lightning has 108A on the 12V rail, and Ax1200i has 100.4A. Everything else important looks the same to me .. fan size, warranty, efficiency (what is Platinum supposed to get you?). Except price of course.

Again, I ask why?

(NewEgg has Lightning at $149.99 AR, ~~only $10 more~~ $20 less than the equivalent eVGA. The Ax1200i is at $329.99.)

M

I couldn't agree with you more.

Alternatively, I think the Corsair CX500 has the best bang for the buck especially when timed with the regularly-occurring $20 rebate offer in conjunction with additional promo code discounts of up to $10 at the Egg, bringing down the cost to as low as $10-$20 each depending on the list price.

Corsair will only pay ONE rebate per household per item. The cheapest I ever bought corsair cx500's was $45 after coupons etc. They are the best PSU for the price and they never burn wires. DO NOT buy the modular Corsair's though. The plugs they use are cheap and THEY WILL MELT even with just one S1 running at 200gh.

It's ONE per household per rebate offer/campaign and not for eternity and they occur pretty frequently; and I'm certain there are CREATIVE ways around such limitation. I've purchased CX500s at the Egg at a final cost as low as $9.99 ($39.99 list price minus $20 rebate minus $10 instant promo code discount). I have purchased several CX500s this way since the BFL Single SC days through the Cube era. I, in turn, had used the rebate VISA cards to purchase Egg gift cards and apply them to purchase more CX500s with ZERO out-of-pocket cost. That's the most bang for the buck for me.

The concern is not the CX500M's (modular version) PCIe plug or connector being cheap. They're most likely of the same quality as that of the CX500 (non-modular version). It's the CX500M's single flat modular PCIe cable/harness itself which splits into to connectors that gets very hot quickly when used SOLELY to power both blades on an S3. It was meant to power a medium-range GPU (at the most)that requires two PCIe power inputs with load peaks up to 250WDC (intermittently and not 24/7) of possibly an HTPC or a mid-range gaming rig and not S3s at high constant loads in a 24/7 operation.

Bitkoinzz

full member

Activity: 218

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Quote from: Subw on September 15, 2014, 09:19:35 AM

Quote from: Tupsu on September 15, 2014, 08:10:30 AM

Quote from: BITMAIN on September 15, 2014, 08:03:35 AM

ANTMINER S3+ -B9 sales open, shipping starts on Sept. 18th

Price: 0.58 BTC

Total disappointment. Will skip this batch at this price.

Yes even with Bitcoin prices down a bit I think I will just mine these until the L1's come out and then, then it's a whole new story.....

suchmoon

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Activity: 3654

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: Biodom on September 15, 2014, 03:51:53 PM

Is anybody here an electric engineer:

please explain this: last night power went out (computer off, alarm clock, oven , etc), but not for long (I wasn't there so I can base it only on indirect evidence of electrical systems shutdown).
Three S3 miners are on one circuit, three on another. Two miners on each circuit shows sharp drop down, then equally sharp recovery in hashing (which is expected).
However, one miner on each circuit shows ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on hashing, as if nothing happened.
How is this possible? I made a screen shot, so could document that it is what pool interface shows.
Basically, if power was off even for a few sec, then where the hashing was coming from since the pool shows it as uniterrupted?
Is there a buffer or maybe this couple did not fully shutdown if power was lost only for a fraction of a second?

Poolside hashrate is typically sampled by shares submitted in a certain time interval (e.g. 15 minutes or 1 hour) and it's quite possible that some of the miners despite the outage submitted enough shares so that there is no drop in what the pool is seeing. Are they all on the same pool? Same difficulty? (higher difficulty == less "sensitive" pool hashrate measurement).

spiceminer15

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

probably just something to do with the pool

Biodom

legendary

Activity: 3892

Merit: 4331

Is anybody here an electric engineer:

please explain this: last night power went out (computer off, alarm clock, oven , etc), but not for long (I wasn't there so I can base it only on indirect evidence of electrical systems shutdown).
Three S3 miners are on one circuit, three on another. Two miners on each circuit show sharp drop down, then equally sharp recovery in hashing (which is expected).
However, one miner on each circuit shows ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on hashing, as if nothing happened.
How is this possible? I made a screen shot, so could document that it is what pool interface shows.
Basically, if power was off even for a few sec, then where the hashing was coming from since the pool shows it as uniterrupted?
Is there a buffer or maybe this couple did not fully shutdown if power was lost only for a fraction of a second?

visdude

legendary

Activity: 1081

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Stratobitz on September 14, 2014, 08:50:02 PM

Quote from: visdude on September 14, 2014, 07:54:40 PM

Quote from: Stratobitz on September 13, 2014, 09:58:51 PM

Anyone think it would be possible to run (4) S3+ Units off a single EVGA 1300 G2... If perhaps I underclocked them a bit?

Wondering if the loss in hash would actually give better ROI using less PSUs.

Strato

At 80% load, an EVGA 1300 G2 with a 1300WDC maximum output on its single +12V rail would be approximately 91% efficient and draw around 1144WAC at the wall. This means that four S3s would have to be underclocked so each draw around 286WAC at the wall (1144WAC / 4); i.e. (1144WAC * 91%) / 1300WDC * 100. This should give you a reference point to realize your idea.

Realize my idea??? You just crushed my idea.

Wink

Strato

PS. Thanks that actually is good info. I'll stick with 3.

If you're comfy with and confident about loading the EVGA 1300 G2 up to 90%, you could underclock the four S3s so each would draw around 322WAC (1288WAC total) at the wall.

(1288WAC * 91%) / 1300WDC * 100 = 90%

suchmoon

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https://bpip.org

Quote from: baykan on September 15, 2014, 03:09:31 PM

Biodom you know it.
I have made the transaction from my coinbase accountand did realy took long time.
So most probably they will fix it when they go to work ?

Another thing I'm interested in is the timing for Batch 8 and Batch 9.

Batch 8 was announced to ship 20th of September or earlier ?
How come Bacth 9 is announced 18th of September ?

That's probably because Batch 8 is already shipping and will probably be fully shipped before the 18th. They beat the estimate, nothing wrong with that.

Biodom

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Activity: 3892

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Quote from: soy on September 15, 2014, 03:04:13 PM

Waiting since early this morning for my pair of S3+'s. UPS, signature required. It's 4PM. Just got a call from a neighbor. They have two packages addressed to me on their porch since around noon.

I typically pop out the door when I expect miners and see the UPS truck.
Funny: one time a UPS guy could not handle S2 (40lb) and dropped it from the shoulder hight straight to the cabin floor, and then he saw me staring at him with bemusement. I accepted the package (it worked kind of ok afterwards), but made him to make a note that it was dropped (just in case).

Topic: ANTMINER S3+ Discussion and Support Thread - page 183. (Read 710164 times)