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Topic: [Archive] BFL trolling museum - page 24. (Read 69365 times)

legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
January 15, 2013, 05:25:55 PM
B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?

That's it.  ~crazyates has GOT to be some form of troll.  Nobody could possible have not seen that one coming.

legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
January 15, 2013, 05:24:26 PM
B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?
First of all, sex offendor =/= pedo.

I don't have a daughter. Wink But I see your point, as I would be cautious. But you gotta remember: Sonny is not the one taking my money. BFL is. BFL happens to employ a previously convicted felon. Lots of companies do.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
January 15, 2013, 05:19:00 PM
B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
January 15, 2013, 05:16:27 PM
Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?
A) That has no bearing on their business operations. He is one of their 25 employees.

B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
January 15, 2013, 05:15:46 PM
I've seen nothing solid which invalidates the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam.  At this point I lean to this hypothesis as the one which explains the most observations, and makes the most sense operationally. ...
That's the idea. I believe BFL started with good intentions. Then when unforseen things came up they tried to delay. As more unforeseen things came up they had to keep to their story otherwise the jig would be up.

That is another completely valid hypothesis.  Only time will tell if either one, or neither, ends up being right.

In the mean time, we (or to speak only for myself, I) just keep stacking up verifiable observations against the remaining hypotheses which are yet to be invalidated.

legendary
Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
January 15, 2013, 05:14:29 PM
It's quite surprising that many BFL-haters just dont have any pre-order !  Why are they so dedicated at this trolling activity, what do they gain from it ?  Are they doing it in the hope that they would save some from being scammed ?  What do they gain from it ?   Why so much time and energy ?  Pure altruism ?  To boost their ego in case they could someday say : "I've told you" !

So much time and effort are quite incomprehensible from my point of view..  They must have any gain of some sort to invest so much from themselves, about something they are not concerned by.  Only Ego gain ?

Weird !
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
January 15, 2013, 04:59:09 PM
Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?
legendary
Activity: 952
Merit: 1000
January 15, 2013, 04:58:02 PM
Quote from: BFL_Josh
So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.
Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.
Can you link that quote?

I think you're getting confused, tho. They had ordered 100k chips from the fab. Only 20k of those would be available in the first round of shipments, and then the other 80k would come later. Idk about that 12k number tho, maybe it was how much will actually be shipping to customers?
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-8.html#post10450

First batch has been slashed to 10k chips.
TY for the link.

So 10-12k chips is somewhere around 75-90TH/s? Do we know how long after those 12k chips are assembled and shipped before the next batch of chips is ready to process? I have some orders at the beginning that would be shipped first, and some orders that were placed later that won't be shipped first.
So this is where BFL failed to address why 90% of the previously projected chips will not be produced in the first batch as indicated previously? 90% reduction in supply is a huge red flag guys!!
They said before that they would eventually get 100k chips, but not at once. The initial batch was only for 20k chips, and now it looks like it's been changed to 12k, prolly because of the redesign. Look up - you literally just reposted a quote of me already explaining that.
At what point will you call their bullshit? After 3 more delays?
I don't really see how that question is at all related to the entire conversation we were just quoting, but I'll go with it. I'll keep going along with them until I no longer feel it's profitable. If bASIC hadn't gone down the shitter, and was shipping ASICS for a month now, and I could place an order and get it within a week, I'd prolly be tempted cancel my BFL orders and order from Tom. That's not the case. As it stands, I believe that my pre-orders with BFL are the best bet for getting an ASIC. Maybe Avalon ships first, maybe not. I don't have any orders with Avalon, so I'd rather stick it out with BFL than get into a 2nd round batch with Avalon.

I've never found their company politics to be any of my concern. I've never had any bad encounter with any of their employees. Their FPGA product is still hashing at my house right now (880 firmware, too). I pre-ordered back months ago never really expecting them to ship on time, so this was all already pre-calculated for me. The "clock buffer" thing was kinda weird, but their recent announcements and clarity have been better.

So let me ask you this: At what point will you stop YOUR bullshit? I seriously don't understand the level of hate you have for a company that you're not even a customer of!
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
January 15, 2013, 04:53:26 PM
Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?
Calling names doesn't lead to intelligent discussions with any sort of desirable results.  I would advise against it.

As I've said before, BFL very much looks like a company inexperienced in creating ASICs, creating ASICs.  They could be a scam, but I am doubtful, simply because they would have already run with the money if they were.  The logical conclusion is that they have indeed had the setbacks Josh has recently written in detail about, and that they will eventually produce their ASIC products.

Your opinion would carry more weight if they weren't holding your money.

There could be any number of reasons why they haven't run with the money. The new pre-orders coming in could exceed the rate of refunds (wouldn't surprise me considering how heavily they still advertise) or they could still be putting together their method for running with the money. You can't just put $5m on a suitcase and get on a plane.
legendary
Activity: 1002
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
January 15, 2013, 04:53:11 PM
About overheating chips.. packages, board overheat etc...

Think about GPU devices..  I dont know any other application / game that can make a GPU heating as much as hashing.. I think hashing is very hard on chips.  Simulations and stuff like that may be based on known uses of chips.   As hashing is quite hard/extensive on chips, maybe simulations dont account for that kind of very extensive use of a chip.  

So, my bet is that in real life, asics hashing heats much more than the simulation shows.

just my tought

hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
January 15, 2013, 04:52:31 PM
Well, if I were to put money on which group would ship an ASIC unit first, I'd pick the only one that's ever shipped mining hardware before.


Which one is this mythical only one?

BTCFPGA?
Icarus FPGA?
Cairnsmore FPGA?
Quadminer FPGA?

Damn' didn't know they all announced ASICs, must've missed that day.


BTCFPGA/Quadminer -> bASIC

Icarus -> Avalon
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
January 15, 2013, 04:52:17 PM
They don't have a working demo, otherwise they would show it.  I thought this was a well-established point already?  They have confirmed that the ASICs worked in QFN packaging, but then they killed the samples while stress testing them for harsh environments.  Now, they are confident enough that the chips will continue to work in the new package that they are creating them all at the same time (without samples), and will probably showcase demo units days before they ship out to customers.



I've seen nothing solid which invalidates the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam.  At this point I lean to this hypothesis as the one which explains the most observations, and makes the most sense operationally.

...
Since when is doing a con job ever the "logical path"??  I would never consider scamming people as being a logical path no matter how much money is involved.  My hope would be that the vast majority of the rest of the world would feel the same.  Obviously, there is Sonny, but he is not the only one involved in operating BFL - far from it.

...

I thought we agreed to dis-agree?  But since we are here...

If you expect scammers to be irrational, illogical, or stupid, I anticipate that you'll find yourself scammed repeatedly.  There are a lot of adjectives with negative connotations which one may use to describe the typical scammer but these three are not among them.
Maybe so - I've forgotten who all I am talking to.   Wink
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
January 15, 2013, 04:51:25 PM


I've seen nothing solid which invalidates the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam.  At this point I lean to this hypothesis as the one which explains the most observations, and makes the most sense operationally.

...
Since when is doing a con job ever the "logical path"??  I would never consider scamming people as being a logical path no matter how much money is involved.  My hope would be that the vast majority of the rest of the world would feel the same.  Obviously, there is Sonny, but he is not the only one involved in operating BFL - far from it.

...

I thought we agreed to dis-agree?  But since we are here...

If you expect scammers to be irrational, illogical, or stupid, I anticipate that you'll find yourself scammed repeatedly.  There are a lot of adjectives with negative connotations which one may use to describe the typical scammer but these three are not among them.



That's the idea. I believe BFL started with good intentions. Then when unforseen things came up they tried to delay. As more unforeseen things came up they had to keep to their story otherwise the jig would be up.
legendary
Activity: 4690
Merit: 1276
January 15, 2013, 04:47:56 PM


I've seen nothing solid which invalidates the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam.  At this point I lean to this hypothesis as the one which explains the most observations, and makes the most sense operationally.

...
Since when is doing a con job ever the "logical path"??  I would never consider scamming people as being a logical path no matter how much money is involved.  My hope would be that the vast majority of the rest of the world would feel the same.  Obviously, there is Sonny, but he is not the only one involved in operating BFL - far from it.

...

I thought we agreed to dis-agree?  But since we are here...

If you expect scammers to be irrational, illogical, or stupid, I anticipate that you'll find yourself scammed repeatedly.  There are a lot of adjectives with negative connotations which one may use to describe the typical scammer but these three are not among them.

legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
January 15, 2013, 04:39:52 PM

Since when is doing a con job ever the "logical path"??  

When that's what you have decided that you want to do? When all you care about is fleecing money out of your "customers"



BTCFPGA?
Icarus FPGA?
Cairnsmore FPGA?
Quadminer FPGA?

Are these people also "for real"?

If BFL wanted to silence their critics. All they would really need is show a working prototype.

CES would have been a perfect opportunity for them to do this. But no, they brought box filled with fans and a Nexus 7 to "demo".



I agree here. I understand the need to keep "market secrets"while trying to monopolize on being the first one in the market to actually ship out a product but not even a demo has been shown.


And that is the ironic thing. They claim they don't want competitiors to figure out their secrets.

A demo would not reveal much other than a working product. They could point the prototype to one of the publicly available mining pools and have the operator of the pool verify the hashrate that they are pulling.

Instead all we get are more excuses and no evidence that they even have a working device.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
January 15, 2013, 04:36:49 PM

Since when is doing a con job ever the "logical path"??  

When that's what you have decided that you want to do? When all you care about is fleecing money out of your "customers"



BTCFPGA?
Icarus FPGA?
Cairnsmore FPGA?
Quadminer FPGA?

Are these people also "for real"?

If BFL wanted to silence their critics. All they would really need is show a working prototype.

CES would have been a perfect opportunity for them to do this. But no, they brought box filled with fans and a Nexus 7 to "demo".



I agree here. I understand the need to keep "market secrets"while trying to monopolize on being the first one in the market to actually ship out a product but not even a demo has been shown.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
January 15, 2013, 04:35:20 PM
If BFL wanted to silence their critics. All they would really need is show a working prototype.

CES would have been a perfect opportunity for them to do this. But no, they brought box filled with fans and a Nexus 7 to "demo".



A beautiful empty box filled with  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
January 15, 2013, 04:32:58 PM
If BFL wanted to silence their critics. All they would really need is show a working prototype.

CES would have been a perfect opportunity for them to do this. But no, they brought box filled with fans and a Nexus 7 to "demo".

hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
January 15, 2013, 04:29:56 PM
Well, if I were to put money on which group would ship an ASIC unit first, I'd pick the only one that's ever shipped mining hardware before.


Which one is this mythical only one?

BTCFPGA?
Icarus FPGA?
Cairnsmore FPGA?
Quadminer FPGA?

Damn' didn't know they all announced ASICs, must've missed that day.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
January 15, 2013, 04:25:44 PM
Well, if I were to put money on which group would ship an ASIC unit first, I'd pick the only one that's ever shipped mining hardware before.

Too many people holding their breath.

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?


I have no money in this and I believe BFL is sincerely trying to build what they are saying they're trying to build. I also believe they have not the slightest idea what they are doing.

I've seen nothing solid which invalidates the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam.  At this point I lean to this hypothesis as the one which explains the most observations, and makes the most sense operationally.

By 'operationally', I mean that core perps knew that they had little hope of pulling off a real device, the logical path would be 100 % con job.  Dumping a bunch of money into some hail-Mary chip fab efforts is just not a rational way to go.
Since when is doing a con job ever the "logical path"??  I would never consider scamming people as being a logical path no matter how much money is involved.  My hope would be that the vast majority of the rest of the world would feel the same.  Obviously, there is Sonny, but he is not the only one involved in operating BFL - far from it.

Also, who says they knew they had little hope of pulling off a real device?  Everything they've said indicates that they have had MUCH hope (one might even say confidence) of pulling off a real device.  Where are you getting this idea that, just because thermal limits are exceeded on one type of chip package, they would just throw in the towel and say it couldn't be done?
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