Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher - page 3. (Read 34706 times)

No problemo...cocked, locked, and ready to rock. Send em on over. I'll pack some spare clips to ensure the trespassers receive the welcome they deserve.

No, you forgot enforcing immigration law is RAYSHIST! Don't mind the fact that every other nation on Earth does this. These people are poor, suffering, and need a home! Perhaps they can move in with you?

Oh dear.

Sounds like more job security for federal parasites. Shame they can't seem to find the resources to keep out trespassers on the nation's Southern border.

This is exactly what an indoctrinated person such as yourself would see as his eyes glaze over and blocks out any responses/statements/facts/questions that contradict his current belief system.

Actually, by all appearances, what you seem to be doing is babbling.

I see now why folks like Solarian get into some mode like the hitchhiker in 'Something about Mary' and accuse me of 'inconsistency' when I claim to be a Liberal/Progressive who strongly supports the 2nd.  People have been programmed (by themselves or others or some combination) to some hard-n-fast associations.  This is not 'inconsistency'.  The basic problem false understanding of the world and one which is aggravated by a mindset of absolutism.

Not that I (for instance) don't have some genuine inconsistencies.  I do.  But actually far fewer than most of the readers here probably believe.

No I am addressing facts, not your opinion. Why would I allow you to divert the topic of discussion to your opinions and respond to them when you give no one else the same courtesy, you just give more opinions and pretend the statements/facts/questions are irrelivant.

If you feel like re-phrasing things in a way which makes some sense, particularly given the text to which you were responding, I'd probably be interested enough to comment.  As it stands it looks kind of like you agree with me but seek to dis-agree in a passive/aggressive sort of manner and are grasping for ways to do it.

You misunderstood. First of all there is a reason I used "don't often" instead of "all". One exception does not dictate the norm. Additionally if you are so above the irrelevant 2 party dialectic, then why do you even bother identifying yourself as a liberal?

The words liberal and conservative are meaningless except when describing the general popular sentiment, ie what TV tells you to think. Those words lost their true meanings many years ago. One might argue even that a politicians job is to make definitions of words meaningless so that they can get away with whatever they want with ambiguous definitions. I was simply pointing out his hypocrisy in using ambiguous inconsistent statements, much like a politician would do. Ironically as a person like him who identifies with socialist values, he attacks the liberal left, the same people who usually identify most with this mindset.

Yes because everyone knows bankers and politicians never get together to conspire about how best to fuck the public. That is way too far fetched. So your saying upkeep of a desert costs more than they'll acquire selling land, oil, and mineral rights? That makes sense, but hey, why bother confirming anything when you can just state your personal opinions as if they are fact?

Check again. This time don't drink that tea they give you. The idea of liberal and conservative is the wool that is put before our eyes to hide the truth. For if the truth came out and people discovered we are all fighting the same monied interests they would fall. People are complicated and rarely buy into a set of disconnected beliefs despite what political fundraisers would like us to think.
I have ethical problems with abortion, carry a gun every day, love the south, am involved with CSA farming, despise laws that limit my freedom in any way. You know, a liberal.  

Occam's razor suggests that in the case of the Bundy situation things are not all that complicated.  He's been a deadbeat for 20 years at least, and things have finally progressed to the point where there is some concrete action to finally put an end to it.  If there is a conspiracy to be found in this case, I'd start by trying to find out why Bundy got to mooch for that long.

Ironically, managing BLM land for grazing itself invalidates the 'pays the state nothing' argument.  It is done at a loss and to the direct benefit of (sometimes) local ranchers and the theorized benefit of the public at large so they can buy more hamburgers.  I personally am OK with that as one of the factors driving land management decisions.  It is also the case that tourism and recreation are a large part of many smaller local economies.  And we have the BLM and other similar federal agencies to thank for managing the land in a way that makes that more feasible.

Should we keep an eye all deals involving the resources of public lands and those who are instrumental in formulating them?  Fuckin'A yes!  Certainly that includes Harry Reid.  Should we continue to pound on a dead horse when a chain of conspiracy toward a particular action is at best highly tenuous and highly political?  Not so much.

It is entirely likely that there are machinations involving solar energy, environmental group appeasement, and future mitigation agreements.  I don't see this as a necessarily bad thing.  I expect the BLM to make land use decisions which consider their large holdings as a related system.  I want them to choose areas which are less sensitive for destruction and use more sensitive and unique areas for ecological preservation.

I don't want the BLM to be funneling money to their political friends even if they are doing a good job otherwise , and again, that should be monitored.  What I really don't want is for the Koch brothers to turn vast areas into sludge ponds through oil shale operations and destroy the limited water resources by fracking.  Particularly since their modus operandi is the same as those who came before them.  Keep all the profits (many of them subsidies from my pocket thanks to lobbying) and abandon the works as a super-fund site when it has been milked dry.  That is a much better reason to keep a close eye on the politicians outside the BLM and the managers within the BLM.  And groups and efforts sponsored by groups like Citizens United.

Its an interesting thread this one, for various reasons. But I think in a sense what you have written above gets to the crux of it in some way.

In the UK there is a saying - "The punctual have to pay the price for the tardy", and this is what came to my mind as I read your post.

My point being, is that even if/though you may be a responsible citizen and so are able to use the freedom accorded to you (by nature) for the betterment of both yourself and your community, we cannot say the same for everyone in this world. And, unfortunate as it might be for the likes of you and me, the laws of the nation have to, to a degree, be framed to compensate for those that would act irresponsibly - tvbcof made the point pretty succinctly with his childhood pop gun story  



    Short of a "moral eugenics" programme I don't see a way around this.

That they might have thought of it - and that they might even have appropriated it as a means of safeguarding their own self interest, doesn't in itself make it an unsound principle though does it ?

TPTB have thought of that argument.

Its an interesting thread this one, for various reasons. But I think in a sense what you have written above gets to the crux of it in some way.

In the UK there is a saying - "The punctual have to pay the price for the tardy", and this is what came to my mind as I read your post.

My point being, is that even if/though you may be a responsible citizen and so are able to use the freedom accorded to you (by nature) for the betterment of both yourself and your community, we cannot say the same for everyone in this world. And, unfortunate as it might be for the likes of you and me, the laws of the nation have to, to a degree, be framed to compensate for those that would act irresponsibly - tvbcof made the point pretty succinctly with his childhood pop gun story  



    Short of a "moral eugenics" programme I don't see a way around this.

..despise laws that limit my freedom in any way.  

Last time I checked liberals don't often support guns, militias, farmers, or southerners really. You are trying to make your square biases fit into a round hole.