Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher - page 4. (Read 34706 times)

Occam's razor suggests that in the case of the Bundy situation things are not all that complicated.  He's been a deadbeat for 20 years at least, and things have finally progressed to the point where there is some concrete action to finally put an end to it.  If there is a conspiracy to be found in this case, I'd start by trying to find out why Bundy got to mooch for that long.

Ironically, managing BLM land for grazing itself invalidates the 'pays the state nothing' argument.  It is done at a loss and to the direct benefit of (sometimes) local ranchers and the theorized benefit of the public at large so they can buy more hamburgers.  I personally am OK with that as one of the factors driving land management decisions.  It is also the case that tourism and recreation are a large part of many smaller local economies.  And we have the BLM and other similar federal agencies to thank for managing the land in a way that makes that more feasible.

Should we keep an eye all deals involving the resources of public lands and those who are instrumental in formulating them?  Fuckin'A yes!  Certainly that includes Harry Reid.  Should we continue to pound on a dead horse when a chain of conspiracy toward a particular action is at best highly tenuous and highly political?  Not so much.

It is entirely likely that there are machinations involving solar energy, environmental group appeasement, and future mitigation agreements.  I don't see this as a necessarily bad thing.  I expect the BLM to make land use decisions which consider their large holdings as a related system.  I want them to choose areas which are less sensitive for destruction and use more sensitive and unique areas for ecological preservation.

I don't want the BLM to be funneling money to their political friends even if they are doing a good job otherwise , and again, that should be monitored.  What I really don't want is for the Koch brothers to turn vast areas into sludge ponds through oil shale operations and destroy the limited water resources by fracking.  Particularly since their modus operandi is the same as those who came before them.  Keep all the profits (many of them subsidies from my pocket thanks to lobbying) and abandon the works as a super-fund site when it has been milked dry.  That is a much better reason to keep a close eye on the politicians outside the BLM and the managers within the BLM.  And groups and efforts sponsored by groups like Citizens United.

lol

Guess tvbcof wasn't a fan of the fascist cash for clunkers program.

How the fuck do you debunk a tentative deal, the status of which is most likely not even published? Just because the deal was off in 2013 doesn't mean they can't still make the deal. It more than likely means they got flack from environmental groups and had to step back until they could appease them with land mitigation. Interestingly enough I also found out there is quite a bit of oil in that area the BLM  just sold rights to. BLM owns about 80% of Nevada and pays the state nothing for these resources. Why would anyone be upset by these things? LOL

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/blm_library/tech_notes.Par.29872.File.dat/TN_444.pdf
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-20/martin-armstrong-asks-do-feds-really-own-land-nevada
http://m.shalereporter.com/industry/article_0de547ba-8ca4-11e2-ab4e-0019bb30f31a.html

And really proud of your "death by a thousand paper cuts" balancing act.

We Texans call that horse shit and talking out of both sides of your mouth. As we see practicaldreamer did above weaseling out of a call to come into touch with a hard reality.

Socialists live in their selfish "fuck me" world.

I suggest to all readers, opt-out of their financial system and let them fuck themselves.

Readers you should be looking for your opt-out solution.

I think that accusation was debunked.

How come no one has discussed Harry Reid's deal with a Chinese solar company allowing it to operate via setting this disputed grazing land aside as a natural preserve and ecological "balancing" effect to even out the ecological damage of a huge solar farm?

Socialists can never admit they are wrong.

Piss off you fucking loser piece of shit.

The problem with that is that there are those amongst us who have created several accounts here - and no doubt would utilise them in a poll. This would render the poll null and void.
  I seem to remember you did the same on the Eric Raymond forum you so enthuse about ?

Sad man.

Poor Sol.  Cannot take 'yes' for an answer.  I'm sometimes inconsistent, and even more I often appear that way.  Call it 'relativism' if you like.  I've explained the phenomenon (which is by no means unique to me) already and it's kind of boring and tedious waste of time to repeat it constantly.

One more quick example anyway.  I have a car that I like pretty well.  Always starts, gets good mileage, etc.  But it doesn't have power door locks.  I'm not going to run it off a cliff and get another one because of that deficiency.  It would be expensive, inefficient, dangerous, and there is a damn good chance that the replacement would have even more serious defects.  So, I take care to look at the little button on the passenger door to see if it is red when I go shopping.  Maybe someday I'll retro-fit electric door locks or something, but probably not.  If my car gets stolen or wrecked I'll take care of this inconsistency in perfection when I get my next one.

Well thanks...and GFY.

I understand your problems with PoS. As I said, I share some of your concerns. I have diversified my own wealth into many different directions in an effort to avoid fiat to every extent that is possible. I also like Bitcoin & silver bullion though I know you do not like the former.

With regard to our inconsistent friend here, I stopped reading his posts several pages ago, but I have little trouble recalling the things that were said and reconciling them with new information.

solarion is a notably clairvoyant writer on this issue. His recent summaries are more astute than mine. Thanks.

My talent is more focused in the abstract mathematical realm. I've noted solarion doesn't yet understand why PoS is incorrect (and I don't have time to gather all my past points for him at this time to try to convince him), which is an exhibit that my intellect is higher in that realm (or perhaps I've just spent more time analyzing PoW vs. PoS). Whereas, his verbal IQ is appears to be higher than mine (or perhaps he just has more patience in this realm than I do).

Create a poll and prove it. Otherwise you are just blowing hot air out of your British arse.

Couple of articles from my neck of the woods just popped up:

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2014/05/oregon_grazing_fee_story_gener.html

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2014/05/12/oregon-ranchers-pay-federal-grazing-fees/9006793/


Also of note, the picture of the cow grazing in national forest is in one of our least hospitable counties.   Malheur county does have worse land and a genuine, if small, Laurence-of-Arabia style desert along with chronic water problems.  (The Alvord desert is kind of a neat place if anyone is traveling around out in these parts.)  Even so, the contrast between the graze in that pic and what we see in the SW deserts is notable.

I live near the coast.  In my area we have year-round green grass so it is good for dairy.  Someone with 160 acres of semi-flat ground would truly be "shit'n in high cotton" as we say.  Most of the flat ground is in river valleys where the soil is vaguely fertile (unlike my land which is only really good for timber.)

This brings me back to my point that the SW desert ranchers are probably impacted more adversely by the laws of nature than by the likes of the BLM.  If it takes 600,000 acres to sustain a family, that doesn't scale well.  And if they cannot make it with the 600,000 acres at the highly subsidized $1.60 rate, it might simply be the wrong business to be in given the local conditions.  Again, bovids were not native to a lot of these areas, and for good reason.

Cliven's dad from whom the current Bundy's inherited the farm tried cattle briefly in the 1950's, then quite.  The farm itself and water rights from the Virgin river are about 1000 times better than what most people have.  By all appearances Cliven is an obstinate fool and a poor manager.  Even if it might have been possible to eek out an existence at one time by destroying half a million acres of someone else's land, times change as populations, understandings of ecology, and various priorities shift around.  Cliven should have sucked it up and moved on like countless others have had to do through history (including my family.)  This especially since it was he himself made the poor decision in the 1970's that he wanted to be a big-time rancher.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/blm-prepares-arrest-protesters-utah/

I'm not sure where 'arrest' came from, but if that is possible then I, for one, am all for it.  Certainly the kids should have their toys taken away.

It is amusing to note that the event organizer (and county commissioner) Phil Lyman's momma didn't raise no fool;  He himself didn't break the law and go riding through the canyon of course.

Here's a little story.  When I was 6 or 7 my daddy got me one of those ubiquitous Daisy BB-guns.  Within a few days one of my step-sisters had a little red dot on her ass and was screaming bloody murder.  I wasn't even the one who pulled the trigger.  My dad bent the BB-gun into a pretzel and threw it into the river.  That was a traumatic event and had a big impact on my philosophies about a lot of things which persist to this day.  When a got a 22 some years later I treated it with a lot more respect and considered my actions with more care.

You see, there is nothing wrong with losing one's rights to anything if one cannot act responsibly.  The most fundamental rights (Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness) are not immune constitutionally, legally, morally, ethical, functionally, etc.  Society has dictated that one doesn't brandish weapons and use them for intimidation except under very unusual circumstances.  It's incumbent on those exercising their rights under the 2nd to be aware of the conditions under which those rights exist.

The militia clowns stepped WELL over the line of what is appropriate in exercising their 2nd rights.  Now they will pay.  For my part I consider it just a matter of time before most of them do something like the Bundy stuff, and they've probably gotten away with being bozos in the past (intimidating their family, neighbors, etc.)  Thus, I am utterly delighted to see the book thrown at them.  If the govt takes out the trash now it's less we'll have to deal with later if, by chance, we do get into a SHTF situation.  Unless the government re-arms them and puts them to work which is quite possible.

 - edit:

BTW, I live in the Pacific Northwest.  I lived in Texas for a while when I was in the military.  Technically I have a tree-farm but don't currently make any money on it nor do I use it as a tax write-off in a significant way and probably never will.  I am active in managing my resources and using my sawmill and such (when not wasting time in the Internet) but it's mostly just for fun.

I don't care for childish ignorance and a 'might makes right' mentality and to the extent that that is more common among some classes (politically, socio-economically, etc) I do have a distinct prejudiced.  I live among 'backward hicks' and in many ways am one myself.  It is the environment in which I spend a significant amount of time in growing up and how I choose to live at the present time.  I've also lived and worked in professional urban environments with people from all over the world.  I understand that every class of society has differing factions of the same basic types of people.

A large contingent of people who live in rural environments are reasonable, ethical, and trustworthy people, and I know this for a fact.  Even a fair fraction of those who might be drawn to militia movements are in this basic category in my best estimate.  But that does not give them an excuse for acting stupid.

I am also keenly aware of the types of relationships and corruptions that can and do happen on a local level.  I'm surprised when a local fire chief does NOT end up with goodies from a government auction in his own garage...and a majority of the local community thinking that that is A-OK.  This is a distinct factor in my conceptions of exactly how much localization is appropriate in the balances required to form a well functioning government system.

Agreed.

However, this one claims to support the 2nd amendment(and claims to be a gun owner), but seemingly hates it when people exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. He also called for the militia members on Bundy's property to be stripped of their 2nd Amendment rights.  

He plainly despises militia, though I suspect we could get him to acknowledge the militia's Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms...and assemble. Basically, he seems to be a fan of HIS Constitutional rights.

I thought he said he WAS a farmer?

Is Nevada southern? I never think of it that way, but he obviously dislikes the Bundy clan, so perhaps he considers them southerners. Then again I thought he mentioned residing in Texas, which is plainly more southern than Nevada. I suspect in this case it's not so much anti-southern as it is a pro-team blue mindset that sets our hero off.

I put him on ignore after several contradictions he refused to address, so I may have missed some bs since.  

This is probably actually true.  The information available to the public about the advances is interesting, and the publicly available information in such fields tends to significantly lag that which is not.

The trick is to keep a 'path' in one's mind.  And try to make sure that obstacles along that path are are especially challenging for the likely adversaries.

As a for instance, a pass-phrase is effectively the weenie.  The knowledge that a pass-phase is in a safe deposit box which a crook will have difficulty accessing makes a theft far more complicated and risky.  So, don't memorize a pass-phrase.  And if said pass-phrase is 64 random characters, that is easy enough to do.

The above example assumes a common criminal as the threat, but permutations and nestings of the general scheme are applicable to thwart or at least drastically complicate state-sponsored appropriations as well.  And as long as one maintains reasonable control, one can re-cast one's defenses with relative ease.

Last time I checked liberals don't often support guns, militias, farmers, or southerners really. You are trying to make your square biases fit into a round hole.

Firstly, I'm under no pretenses about being in some sort of a rich club.  I have more land than most, but economically it is not especially valuable.  I am and always have been allergic to debt so I may not qualify as 'middle class', but that is mostly because the term is kind of misleading.  Anyone who is in debt (in the typical conception of the idea) is closer to slave status in my opinion.

From an engineering standpoint, one can hold onto something if it is more expensive and difficult to take it away than it is worth.  This principle may or may not be sufficient for me to hold onto my land based wealth going forward.  That depends a lot on what the future looks like.

If the scam to transfer public property into the Koch brothers pockets is successful then it is quite possible that there will be an eventual backlash resulting in forceful stripping if wealth from landowners.  And I might get caught up in it as collateral damage.  Probably such a thing will not occur within my lifetime though.

Totally.

The liberal mind seems to be a very simple and unscientific closed loop. For instance most liberals support keynesian economic theory, which is a proven failure, yet their answer tends to be more more more until it "works". If there's a problem, then government has to fix it, usually with more bumbling intervention, even if it's bumbling .gov intervention into free markets that caused the problem to begin with. Cue nancy piglosi claiming that US tax dollars wasted on food stamps results in net GDP growth.

This particular liberal mind accepts that government in the US is corrupt at the highest levels and capable of unspeakable acts of terrorism against it's own citizenry(9/11), yet he sides with them vs those "bad" red team guys. He says we should watch the government parasites closely because they're crooks, but then acknowledges that there's no real way to do so since they've got their claws into everything...but we should trust them anyway. Really weird.


Just don't read two of tvbcof's allegedly sensible paragraphs in a row, or you may soon discover that his only consistent trait is that he's remarkably inconsistent. He claims to be a prepper that seems to see nothing that's worth standing up for and he seems to despise people who do.