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Topic: ASICMiner BE300S Samples Arrived, <0.2W/G Achieved at Board Level - page 5. (Read 66449 times)

legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
pity that for decent miner you need 100 chips...
costs matter, those miners cant be cheap

look at bitmain they have so few to get 1.15TH



You must mean Spondoolies. The SP20 uses 4 chips while a Bitmain S5 uses 60 chips, which is less than AM but still, that's a lot of chips.

Only if integers matter on their own. The (cost per chip per GH) or [(cost per chip per GH) + (board components per chip per GH)] is the most important thing.

Edit: Seems I imagined you said something totally different, but my comment still stands on its own Tongue
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
I'd much rather see a "many small chips" design than one relying on the operation of a single large chip - but this has already been discussed extensively in previous pages. Cooling is a lot easier, as well as increased redundancy (which is somewhat negated by a string design, especially with no cap/FET buffering). Providing a single incredibly-high-current low-voltage power source is also very problematic and prone to resistive-loss inefficiency up the butt.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1004
Glow Stick Dance!
pity that for decent miner you need 100 chips...
costs matter, those miners cant be cheap

look at bitmain they have so few to get 1.15TH



You must mean Spondoolies. The SP20 uses 4 chips while a Bitmain S5 uses 60 chips, which is less than AM but still, that's a lot of chips.
legendary
Activity: 1593
Merit: 1004
Hey Icebreaker, please leave. Nobody wants you here if you're not going to be polite.

He's mostly mentioning because the single-chip data was posted last year and the prototype string board was already being tested at that time. Basically it's a commentary on how inept ASICMiner's PR/communications can be, more than any questioning of their technical competence or engineering efficiency.
If no one talks to him, he goes away. Just like grade school.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Hey Icebreaker, please leave. Nobody wants you here if you're not going to be polite.

He's mostly mentioning because the single-chip data was posted last year and the prototype string board was already being tested at that time. Basically it's a commentary on how inept ASICMiner's PR/communications can be, more than any questioning of their technical competence or engineering efficiency.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
pity that for decent miner you need 100 chips...
costs matter, those miners cant be cheap

look at bitmain they have so few to get 1.15TH


Cost of that chip for AM is likely ~1$. PCB in large quantities is something like 5$. Rest of parts (few caps and resistors per chip is 0.1$ most), so 100 chips board will be around 120$ (assembly included). Bitmain sells for 0.27$/GH? If AM do the same it's over 100% profit.
I think if you're expecting $20 over the cost of the chips you're going to be a little disappointed. You aren't going to get PCBs, other components, PCB assembly, heatsinks/fan, controller, unit assembly and testing for $20, even in quantity in China. At current prices they'll still be able to make money on BE300, but 100% markup in this market is wildly optimistic.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1003
If we could build them to be compatible with S1 and Tube heatsinks could make for some fun upgrade kits as well.

This x1,000,000.  I'm tired of excessive depreciation of redundant hardware, when the only portion of it that is redundant is the PCB's/Chips/Controllers. If upgrading made financial sense, more miners would do it (I.E. NOT the Bitmain S1 upgrade flop).  The savings on purchase and shipping of frames/heatsinks and fans would also give the manufacturer an edge in production cost of working miners compared to competitors, and give them more room to mark-up the important parts while still saving us money at the door.  Do this!
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Quote
5x5mm is a 30% reduction in surface area which is a huge hit. Getting that heatsink right is going to be mighty important as to the formfactor of the device. Nice thin blades like in the Cube at this point are really required to get any sort of 'next generation' density out of these things.

That's my main concern, but hopefully the chips will be priced low enough that density isn't prohibitively expensive. Novak and I have discussed working up a design for a 30-chip board which could be roughly the same size as a Cube board, and several could be stacked together in modular miner configurations for devices of different hashrates. Nominally 150-200GH per board is probably a decent setpoint. If we could build them to be compatible with S1 and Tube heatsinks could make for some fun upgrade kits as well.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Yeah, it is fairly flat. The upperbound on clocking is going to depend on a lot on how easy it is to keep the chips cool. If they're like AM's chips of the past though, they won't mind high temperatures too much, but in a 5x5mm package (if I'm remembering right, it's several pages back) that's a real question. I know BE100 chips, in I believe a 6x6mm package, it took some rigging to make them run reliably at 4W dissipation. That was a PCB-cooled chip with not-the-best PCB-heatsink contact though (at least on Blades), so maybe a top-cooled chip will have a better overall thermal resistance between case and sink?

5x5mm is a 30% reduction in surface area which is a huge hit. Getting that heatsink right is going to be mighty important as to the formfactor of the device. Nice thin blades like in the Cube at this point are really required to get any sort of 'next generation' density out of these things.


I'd like to see about a 30-chip board that can be software volt/clocked between 100 and 300GH with a quiet fan and can run off a DC brick. That'd make a really good entry-level miner, Jalapeno or U3 market sector.

Maybe I should just go design it. But that's about three projects away. But I think it's a good idea.
Yeah, this chips scales quiet good. Bitmain's chips don't do well in that matter. Going to double hashrate means decreasing efficiency almost twice.

With AM chips double hashrate = only 25% worse efficiency.
 3.6GH/s | 0.2095W/G
 7.2GH/s | 0.2495W/G

That's not really a fair comparison when the BE300 is running / being tested in a range far far lower than the BM1384 is running at. If the graph continued back towards 0 it would probably look very, very similar to that of the AM chip.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Yeah, it is fairly flat. The upperbound on clocking is going to depend on a lot on how easy it is to keep the chips cool. If they're like AM's chips of the past though, they won't mind high temperatures too much, but in a 5x5mm package (if I'm remembering right, it's several pages back) that's a real question. I know BE100 chips, in I believe a 6x6mm package, it took some rigging to make them run reliably at 4W dissipation. That was a PCB-cooled chip with not-the-best PCB-heatsink contact though (at least on Blades), so maybe a top-cooled chip will have a better overall thermal resistance between case and sink?
legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
I'd like to see about a 30-chip board that can be software volt/clocked between 100 and 300GH with a quiet fan and can run off a DC brick. That'd make a really good entry-level miner, Jalapeno or U3 market sector.

Maybe I should just go design it. But that's about three projects away. But I think it's a good idea.
Yeah, this chips scales quiet good. Bitmain's chips don't do well in that matter. Going to double hashrate means decreasing efficiency almost twice.


With AM chips double hashrate = only 25% worse efficiency.
 3.6GH/s | 0.2095W/G
 7.2GH/s | 0.2495W/G
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
I'd like to see about a 30-chip board that can be software volt/clocked between 100 and 300GH with a quiet fan and can run off a DC brick. That'd make a really good entry-level miner, Jalapeno or U3 market sector.

Maybe I should just go design it. But that's about three projects away. But I think it's a good idea.
legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
pity that for decent miner you need 100 chips...
costs matter, those miners cant be cheap

look at bitmain they have so few to get 1.15TH


Cost of that chip for AM is likely ~1$. PCB in large quantities is something like 5$. Rest of parts (few caps and resistors per chip is 0.1$ most), so 100 chips board will be around 120$ (assembly included). Bitmain sells for 0.27$/GH? If AM do the same it's over 100% profit.
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
Right, only 60 chips that are larger.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
cryptoshark
pity that for decent miner you need 100 chips...
costs matter, those miners cant be cheap

look at bitmain they have so few to get 1.15TH

legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
This chip looks very promising for AM. It's good at both ends. Efficiency and performance if needed...
legendary
Activity: 1161
Merit: 1001
Don`t invest more than you can afford to lose
24 chip (6 chip chain x 4) test result posted.
The mosfets and big capacitors are safely removed due to the constant workload of BE300.



Results:

273.60GH/s | 0.38W/G
176.64GH/s | 0.31W/G
155.04GH/s | 0.27W/G
118.56GH/s | 0.26W/G

With more accurate control on the variance between chips we could in principle gain less power consumption in advance.

great work friedcat! my prismas are working very whell and whainting for your new release!
legendary
Activity: 3374
Merit: 1859
Curmudgeonly hardware guy
I wonder how well the mass-production chips will handle dissipating 4W each, being a different (smaller?) package and all.
newbie
Activity: 51
Merit: 0
Looks authentic - photo taken 2015:01:12 15:28:21 in Binhai Ave, Shenzhen according to the EXIF information.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
It's right ^there^.  Duh!

Any more questions ChoadStress?   Wink

Where is the 24 chip board?

ROADSTRESS..... where are you?

I am right here don't worry. Only took FC one full month to publish the results. If you 2 are happy that AM has a 0.3W/GH chip for at least 8 months from now then I'm glad for you  Cheesy Time to buy some AM shares!  Cool
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