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Topic: ███►BetcoinRakeback.com | 58-83% RAKEBACK [Here ONLY] | ACR WPN Tourneys◄███ - page 24. (Read 100394 times)

legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
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I would assume he isn't proffiting from it as you say. Since he if above 100% payback on the rake he pays back on an average of what he claims.

Hes obv receiving more of his players rake than he's returning.

However I'm sure like Betcoin and any other casino, poker is a way to get people in the door so they can lose money in the casino and sportsbook.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
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I don't know the exact numbers, but that amount that Betcoin overraked was minute when you factor in everything I mentioned....  

Twitchy, you said it yourself, that you do believe the issues mentioned were honest mistakes due to incompetency/inexperience and for that we're in agreement here.  But all the libel just needs to stop.

Please show us how you factor this in so we can understand why you believe it's minute.

I've provided perfectly reasonable explanations on why I believe its not minute.

For example: I explained why I believe they were taking over 280 extra chips per hour (per table) at the high stakes HU cash tables (from 10/31 - 12/9)

You can't just say "when I calculate I find the total amount to be extremely small" and then not show us what you calculated or tell us the number you found...


Twitchy, you said it yourself, that you do believe the issues mentioned were honest mistakes due to incompetency/inexperience and for that we're in agreement here.  But all the libel just needs to stop.

NO

I belive the initial stolen money was unintentional.  The way they decided to handle it after realizing their mistake is criminal.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1000
I would assume he isn't proffiting from it as you say. Since he if above 100% payback on the rake he pays back on an average of what he claims.
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1189

I don't know the exact numbers, but that amount that Betcoin overraked was minute when you factor in everything I mentioned....  

Twitchy, you said it yourself, that you do believe the issues mentioned were honest mistakes due to incompetency/inexperience and for that we're in agreement here.  But all the libel just needs to stop.

But you don't know how much the "factors that you mentioned" actually played into each player's account, right?  Because since you aren't an employee of Betcoin, you wouldn't be able to see that information, right?  So you are just guessing, right?  And your guess is ill-informed, right?  Because you don't play cash games on Betcoin, right?

Why are you guessing in a way that hurts players and helps Betcoin (and, to an extent, you since you overprofitted from all of these players getting overraked)? 
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
The Golden Rule Rules
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1189
Let's go over the things you've said and facts:

1. You claim you are "not even an employee or staff member"

2. Affiliate's don't have access to information showing any bonus', tier rakeback, or table starter rakeback accrued by the people that they refer

3. You don't play cash games on Betcoin (assuming you only have one account and are not a multiaccounter)

YET you claim that you know, for a fact, that if Betcoin were to process refunds based on the 600,000 hands that they overraked their players, the refunds would be negligible.  HOW could you possibly know that?  You can't know that based on the information/API that you receive from Betcoin...you can't know that based on playing in the games, because you don't so you don't know the player tendencies (as I mentioned, a very small number of people use TSR...based on my database I'd estimate it's under 10%).  Where are you getting your information from?  Are you making it up?  Why would you make something like that up if that lie only helps Betcoin and hurts nearly every player, including a majority of the ones who signed up under you?

This is probably the most infuriating aspect of dealing with people who work for Betcoin or those who aspire to work for Betcoin...they just make shit up and then disappear!
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
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Although you've ignored so many of my questions/comments, I'll respond to each of yours.  I'd really appreciate you did the same.  (If i missed anything it wasn't intentional, just let me know)

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I'm not even an employee or staff member and you just continue to attack me.  


Whether or not you are employed by betcoin is irrelevant.  When you help Betcoin generate revenue, you're partners.  

I'm sure you know this, but Betcoins business model relys heavily on affiliate marketing to drive new traffic.  They also reward affiliates very well.  (you seem to receive more rewards than even the top teir offers)

Your income is directly affected by the revenue your players generate.

The more your signups generate, the more you make, thats because you and Betcoin have a partnership.  Period.

THe fact that youre seriously trying to claim "its not my fault Betcoin is doing unethical things even though  I have income that is coming directly from them and I'm trying to convince as many people as possible to sign up and deposit on their site" is really pathetic.

In any affiliate model, there is no excuse for choosing to be anything but 100% transparent with their signups, even if it's at the cost of their own personal income.  

This conflict of interest is the very reason many regulatory bodies either ban the affiliate model all together or regulate the affiliates.  If they didn't do this, affiliates would be able to gain from unethical behavior.  For example: if an online poker site is stealing from its players, an affiliate could choose to be unethical and state that they are not stealing, or they are stealing only a couple pennies.  This would be very unethical, but it would result in the affilites  short term profit.

I realize Betcoin isn't regulated.  I realize there are tons of scummy affiliates.  Thats no excuse for you to be anything but honest.  


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Also if you dislike/distrust me, why did you sign up under me (I found out about this when Betcoin Jessica made a post of your accounts)?  I just provide a good service to poker players.

It's obvious this is more of a thinly veiled attempt at discrediting me than a question.  

I did not sign up under you.  I assume you are refering to me being nickles987 or btcjbtc, I am not.  I didn't know about your thread until a week or so after I had signed up under grindabit.  I wish I had though, because you are able to return more rakeback than any other affiliate even gets paid, I would have made several bitcoins more in rakeback than I had from Chazlys lame rakerace.  

Betcoin Jessica has accused me of many things that are not true, mostly something to do with me playing on their site every day - "she" is lying.  I'm not sure if they are dumb enough to think that accusing me of this would somehow disprove all the evidence I've presented, or if they were simply behaving like children.  If they could, they would be trying to prove that what I said was untrue, not that I'm a cheater.  I could be one of the biggest cheaters of all time, and it still wouldn't change the facts about betcoin.

If I were to sign up a new account to play poker on, I would be a fool not to use your link.  That doesn't give you the right to tell everyone else lies.


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I also don't know what deceptive thing I said about the BBJ.
I suggest going through all your posts to make a list of all the deceptive things you've said.  Then you can post them all, along with the truth and players who may not know they were deceived will no longer believe something that isn't true.

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But it's great you signed up under me, you'll be getting one of the highest rewards in the industry obviously, and I'll benefit from that just a little bit as well.

This is the type of childish passive aggressive comment that Betcoin makes which really doesn't accomplish anything.  I'd really appreciate it if you spent more time responding the the serious issues I've brought up.




Please, return the courtesy of responding.

I'd prefer you respond to my questions from this post : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13749228

But if you want to make things simpilar, Ill ask just one question at a time.

Between 10/31/15 and 12/10/15 What percentage of hands were won by a player that was currently receiving 100% rakeback on Betcoin at both non Heads Up tables and at only Heads Up tables.  Please explain how confident you are in this number and why.  

(So two numbers, one for Headsup and one for the rest)
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you?  

I don't believe one can get reassigned to another affiliate.  However, since you've signed up recently, you may try and speak to an administrator (via live chat) during normal working hours, and they may be able to help you.  

By the way, please do not attempt to create a new account, because the system will freeze both accounts (this is a testament to Betcoin's efforts to rid the site of multi-accounting).

Also for everyone else; please note that I can't send rakeback to any account that is banned or frozen.  Please get it resolved first and notify me and then I can initiate the transfer again.



Thank you for the update.  I won't make any new accounts. 
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
The Golden Rule Rules
I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you?  

I don't believe one can get reassigned to another affiliate.  However, since you've signed up recently, you may try and speak to an administrator (via live chat) during normal working hours, and they may be able to help you.  

By the way, please do not attempt to create a new account, because the system will freeze both accounts (this is a testament to Betcoin's efforts to rid the site of multi-accounting).

Also for everyone else; please note that I can't send rakeback to any account that is banned or frozen.  Please get it resolved first and notify me and then I can initiate the transfer again.

full member
Activity: 204
Merit: 100
I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you? 

I don't believe you can change your affiliate once you have one or get reassigned.  There is a lot of trolling going on in here so who knows when Xiaoxiao will be back. 
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
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Yes, why you don't start your own thread instead of filling this thread with garbage.  You clearly have mental problems as many people have stated.  Start your own thread and say whatever you want.

I've started a thread on twoplustwo, pokerfraudalert, and also here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;quote=13507632;topic=1322261.0;sesc=12cd2ed5b0596d02a5bab2eb0c56a59a

member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
Yes, why you don't start your own thread instead of filling this thread with garbage.  You clearly have mental problems as many people have stated.  Start your own thread and say whatever you want.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Also dooglus pulled one of the biggest scams in btc history with the justdice fiasco.  So LOL at being a "top trusted member"

I was stating a fact, not an opinion.

Current depth 1 default trust

Depth 1
theymos (1)
HostFat (1)
dooglus (1)
Maged (1)
dserrano5 (1)
OgNasty (1)
Tomatocage (1)
SaltySpitoon (1)
DeaDTerra (1)
BadBear (1)
philipma1957 (1)
escrow.ms (1)
OldScammerTag (1)


Are there any other specific issues you don't understand or disagree with? 
member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
Also I just read that 2+2 thread and you get repeatedly called a nutjob, which is an accurate representation of what your are doing here, in that thread and elsewhere.
member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
Also dooglus pulled one of the biggest scams in btc history with the justdice fiasco.  So LOL at being a "top trusted member"
member
Activity: 60
Merit: 10
Twitchy and the minions need to start their own thread rather than continuing to tard up this one.   No he does not work for Betcoin to answer your question.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
I just signed up at Betcoin and then saw this thread.  After reading through it and the attacks to the poster.  Are you an employee of Betcoin?  How do I get reassigned to you? 
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1189
Do you think a gas station owner selling lottery tickets should be held accountable for the actions of the lottery?

That's all he is doing. I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.

Yes of course the owner of any business should be held accountable for what they sell!

Ok, so go to Amazon.com, Google and Facebook and complain to them about all the shady companies selling things on their platform. You won't, though. You'll just harass this affiliate. He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin. But you don't care, because he's right here and has no choice but to listen to your complaints. You want to extract a pound of flesh from someone, anyone.

How many other people are "promoting Betcoin" who have a special relationship with Betcoin where they get >50% of their refereed player's rakeback?  And thus have the ear of Betcoin and can have a dialogue with them to support/protect the players who have gotten money robbed from them?  I'll gladly voice my concerns to them as well, perhaps one of them will have the ethics to protect the players and not just ignore them.
legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Ok, so go to Amazon.com, Google and Facebook and complain to them about all the shady companies selling things on their platform. You won't, though. You'll just harass this affiliate. He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin. But you don't care, because he's right here and has no choice but to listen to your complaints. You want to extract a pound of flesh from someone, anyone.

Not sure what makes you so confident about what Im willing to do, care about or want?  What do you think posting on Amazon or Facebook would accomplish?  Online poker is a small niche, online poker for Bitcoins is a fraction of that I don't know where to post that it wouldn't fall on mostly users who had no interest in Bitcoins or Online poker.  If you know of any facebook groups or places within amazon that you'd suggest let me know please.

If you think I'm glad Xiao is behaving like this, I'm not.  He's enabling Betcoin to behave the way they do.  

There's far more to this story than just the over rake, and trust me - I haven't just posted in this thread.

I've gone to pokerfraudalert.com and started THIS THREAD

Which resulted in the owner, Todd Wittelles, doing a segment on the weekly Poker Fraud Alert Podcast.  You can listen to it HERE (it gets around 1,000 downloads a week)

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12/2/15 - Colluding, customer service coverups alleged at bitcoin poker room "Betcoin".

Here are some reactions from the pokerfraudalert.com forum (in case you dont want to click the link yourself)

The owner of ProfessionalRakeback.com, an affiliate site:








Todd Witelles, the owner of PokerFraudAlert.com:



To show his credibility, here's a snip from his wiki:
Quote
Witteles was a victim of the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet "Superuser" cheating scandal. He and several other online players took part in uncovering and proving the cheating. This attracted enough media attention to where it became the subject of a story on the TV news program "60 Minutes", where Witteles was featured. The episode aired on November 30, 2008.[6] Witteles appeared on the front page of The Washington Post about the same matter.[7] On December 16, 2009, he appeared on CNBC to discuss the cheating. In the CNBC special, Witteles claimed that legalization and regulation of online poker was necessary in order to prevent future cheating scandals. He also appeared on a Blu-ray Extra attached to the movie Runner Runner, entitled House Of Cards: The Inside Story of Online Poker.[8]

In March 2008, Witteles was selected among eight other top online poker players to participate in ESPN's "Online Poker Think Tank."[9] In 2009, he was a guest broadcaster on ESPN360 for the final table of a World Series of Poker event.








Dooglus (Highest Default Trust Level on this site - not sure exactly how that works but seems worth mentioning)    explaining what I'm trying to do better than my own explanation:








I have alo gone to twoplustwo (the poker version of bitcointalk) you can read check out that thread HERE

Some responses from random poker players:

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Anyone who claims to be DDOSing another player, whether true or not, should be perma-banned from ever playing online poker again. And anyone who works for a poker site that thinks that apologizing is enough for threatening a DDOS attack, should be perma-banned from ever working on an online poker site again.
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Ive dealt with andrew before and was pretty rude really quickly when I didn't figure out or he wasn't understanding the problem I was having. Started saying I wasn't paying attention to what he was saying and therefore couldn't help me if wasn't willing to listen.

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the collusion thing was amazing. they simply confiscated money, unbanned cheaters after a week or two ( so they could play in the "ANTI-Collusion-Freeroll lol) , didnt refund any1 and kept the funds. just ignored the according thread and the players, that were asking for updates

Code:
I stopped playing on there when one if their support guys treated me like garbage. It was laughable how unprofessional they were.
Quote
So they let blatant colluders/cheaters carry on playing and even returned some money to them? I hope this site dies a slow painful death and the owners lose lots of money... anyone who plays there is an idiot.

Is there anywhere decent to play bitcoin poker?
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
Do you think a gas station owner selling lottery tickets should be held accountable for the actions of the lottery?

That's all he is doing. I don't think you understand how affiliates work. He's not a site representative.

Yes of course the owner of any business should be held accountable for what they sell!

Ok, so go to Amazon.com, Google and Facebook and complain to them about all the shady companies selling things on their platform. You won't, though. You'll just harass this affiliate. He's far from the only one promoting Betcoin. But you don't care, because he's right here and has no choice but to listen to your complaints. You want to extract a pound of flesh from someone, anyone.
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