Topic: BFL Monarch - Delivery Dates - page 13. (Read 32532 times)

when did it become obvious to you guys they were a scam . I don't feel too bad for anyone who bought them past august. they didn't do any research and they got stuck with garbage.

I got BFL'd the other day at McD's, ordered a fucking Big Mac but when I opened the box it had a bite out of it.  When I asked the manager WTF was going on he claimed they had to "test" my Big Mac (I mean they have to make sure it won't kill me instantly) and since I hadn't received that particular Big Mac yet it obviously wasn't mine oh and also to kindly go fuck myself for being a whiny bastard.

The truth of what BFL did through ECM will be exposed. The discovery will prove the extent of the mining they did with the alleged 45,000 units. BCP has no evidence to confirm or deny the what BFL did with the units. He simply parrots Josh and BFL talking points then makes up shit to obfuscate. The reality as posted in the  BFL replies to the claims against them.

Here are the telling points in BFL's argument.

DEFENDANT BF LABS INC.’S ANSWER AND AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSES TO PLAINTIFFS’ COMPLAINT


Let me translate for BCP. It is BFL's contention that the units were not assigned to the customer at the time they were burned in and that burn in was minimal. The evidence I can only suspect will point to the fact that there was a clear pattern of delaying shipments of units in order to keep burn in testing going to earn BTC for BFL as stated by the Plantiff's. Remember that the probation officer actually has complete access to Sonny V's and anyone else's computers and homes etc as a result of the probation directive of the Judge and that Sonny V needs to be forthright in providing information regarding burn in testing etc to help resolve the concerns of the probation officer so that their is no fraud.

Meaning that there is no where the probation officer can't look, and if she does look at Josh's laptop or the ECM logs and finds impropriety, long burn ins and slow delivery then Sonny V goes directly to jail after the next hearing and Josh and Co. will be up on charges of fraud etc. Making BFL a poster boy for Bad Bitcoin might be something the States Attorney may want to pursue.

Bottomline BFL is already in their defense trying to cover it's own ass with slippery speak. The units were not yours yet so you can't claim the burn in fees collected. I wonder why they would do that? Would it be because they have millions of burn in BTC? Could that be the reason to protect those funds from being used to compensation for those 6283+ complaints ?

Remember that all of these independent and individual complaints are definitely a significant portion of the total BFL customer base could be as much 50% is possible given the low number of units sold. I suspect they have hidden things quite well given that the IRS would have to be kept in the dark considering their financial statements / tax returns show loss according to court documents. At some point soon BFL is either going to get caught by the courts or by the IRS. The speculation will end in short order and when the dust clears I don't see how Sonny V or BFL are going to be doing business given the millions contested.

Would it be too flippant to say.....

"Two weeks now"

Did anyone get their Jalapeno yet?

Typical troll FUD? From BFL's own mouth:
"Butterfly Labs earns mining income from their bum testing of machines"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013

They made that statement under oath. They mine with customers machines before they ship them.

BFL could easily be mining with quite a bit of their own stuff. BFL didn't make all of their devices in a batch (like normal companies do), but instead make a few hundred at a time. They mine with those for a bit, then ship them out. Simple, easy, hard to see in the block chain. This is BFL themselves have admitted to. They could run 3-4 weeks of Jalapeno & Single production and nobody would notice. That is less than 1% of the blockchain and well within the error margin.

Only an idiot of epic proportions would believe that BFL first produced 45,000 units and then tried to mine with them all. Which is why BCP19 brought it up I suppose.

The original timeline bait and switch is the most obvious stinking part of the dead dog that is BFL marketing and they continue to promote fantasy lost leader shipping, power and price details on their website. If you order today when can you expect shipping of a Monarch? They do not know. They can not say. That is critical to any miner today especially when the competition is shipping units that are 2x cheaper, the next day with shipping included, and you don't need a PSU, casing and other paraphernalia to get your miner working unlike the 28nm cards that BFL have yet to demonstrate to anyone.

Reality check time BCP:

August 21, 2013 - http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/8/prweb11035951.htm

"The new chip has been in quiet development for the last six months." - Jeff Ownby, Butterfly Labs VP of Marketing

"Initial deliveries of the Monarch are slated to begin in December 2013." - Jeff Ownby, Butterfly Labs VP of Marketing

“If employed today, each device would mine approximately 6 bitcoins every 24 hours.
At the time of this writing, that's over $600 per day. However, it's important to point
out that mining difficulty & bitcoin prices change with great volatility. We can only
guarantee the performance specifications of our hardware, not the market value of
mining with it." - Jeff Ownby, Butterfly Labs VP of Marketing

Number of actual BTC mined since projected December 2013 deliveries. ZERO.

What they really have trouble admitting is that they lied yet again about the 'deliveries'. What this actually means is that BFL has been working on a 28nm chip for well over 15 months, since February 2013. They clearly promoted the shipping as early as December 2013 and they made claims that given that their past experience was so extensive they would not be "delayed" again was the implied reference. The had learned their lessons. Well they learned little in fact what they learned is how continue to lie and cheat their customers with false and misleading information. The court cases of which there are many are certainly well written and anyone can read the complaints that are filed for all these arguments.

"We've learned a great deal with our first ASIC. After an initial delay, that processor
has been shipping in volume for the past few months and is now powering the majority
of the Bitcoin network. For this 28nm version, we were able to use our test bench data
to make major optimizations in both speed and efficiency that would otherwise not be
possible with a first generation design.Our deep involvement with the engineering team
from Global Foundries has further allowed us to maximize our design for their advanced
28 nanometer process." - Butterfly Lab’s chief ASIC engineer John Cheng.


The BFL website makes no mention of when you can expect delivery of a Monarch if you order today. Given that their competition is shipping self-contained units that are 2 to 2.5 times cheaper and shipping in immediately means that anyone purchasing a BFL Monarch today is obviously not aware of either the competition has better products at cheaper price or the fact that BFL has NO working units after 15+ months of development.

No matter what BFL says at this point the Monarch is DEAD. It is way overpriced. It can't be delivered tomorrow nor will it every be delivered in 24 hours after purchase. Saying you have the most efficient chips means nothing if that chip is not on a proven design, hashing and able to be shipped to customers the same day it is purchased. BFL is out. The lies are systemic to the nature of this company. Josh Z. and Sonny V. are not the only people in this organization trying to promote unrealistic and fraudulent timelines. If they were serious about business they would have 100% immediate refund guarantee anytime the customers wanted it. As per FTC rules.



BFL_Josh wrote: on August 20, 2013.

"Yes, I would like to change it, but I have a sneaking suspicion if I have it changed now people will pitch a fit about false advertising or something."

Something prophetic in that statement n'est pas? 6 months later and he is still "not changing" anything.

As they say in Korea.

돌다리도 두드려 보고 건너라.

More appropriately for the poor souls who actually bought a Monarch believing it would get delivered here is one just for you guys.

그림의 떡.

Here's the big picture. In the words of the judge:


The official word from the judge, BFL stinks. We all know BFL stinks. Yet you continue to defend them. Unbelievable!

How's this reality for you: you guys love to quote the court documents, so that means you've got $25-30 million in revenue for just 2013, which means the $1 million you are so worried about cannot amount to more than 3.3-4% of the total revenue.  On top of that, I'm sure there are Monarch orders in the mix, so that makes it even lower.  Using the number I mentioned before, 8000 Imperial Monarchs, that'd be ~$35 million more, dropping that down to 1.54-1.67%.  Not to mention, I'm sure there are plenty of complaints that have already been resolved as well as bogus complaints (like the $30 million one).  So sad you have to have your bubble burst like this, but you're hung up on minutia while being unable to see the bigger picture.  Bick is so desperate that he's necroing threads over a year old just so he can up his post count.  So sad the people you trolls look up to are in such straits.  Maybe once Bick gets his straight-jacket you'll begin to see the light.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information-2.html#post77863

Tomorrow makes 11 weeks, yet not a single working Monarch. A great example of Josh's totally bogus timeline estimates.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/4414-monarch-information-post79874.html#post79874

So shipping the week of 4/28 - 5/2? Nope, no working devices yet.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_josh/386-monarch-update-30-april-2014-a.html

What's your guess. Did they ship when Josh predicted? Surprise! They didn't. 20 days later and nothing shipped.

Again made up maths to try to prove a point no one was making, SOP for BCP and BFL.  Funny how made up shit makes his point seem stronger. 

I personally would have called it another pathetic strawman attempt but meh you're obviously entitled to your own opinion 

Hey BCP reality is quite a nice place to live, you should come visit us here sometime, you might like it after the shock of your delusion wears off.

Nice strawman! No one ever claimed they built 8000 units and started mining with them all at once. The truth is, BFL takes pre-order funds, builds miners, then mines for profit with those customer machines. How many at a time? No one knows. But the fact that they do it is not under dispute. They stated such in court records.

Even more amazing people BCP continue to support BFL no matter how obvious the fraud.

Typical troll FUD... you think I meant what pool when I meant physical location.  You guys are the ones that keep trotting out the "they mine with their gear up until it''s worthless and then ship" and now you have the idiots that are claiming the Monarch is already being used and won't ship until it too is worthless.  What I posted shows that broad statements like that are patently false, as the network didn't hit the speeds needed to make it true until way late in the game.  Over a year ago people were making the same claims, and back then the difficulty hadn't even changed.  Only the truly stupid can believe that a company would be able to physically house (at that time) more equipment than is currently on the network and not affect it.  Even today, let's say they had enough orders to increase the network by a mere 10%, that would be 8,000 Imperial Monarchs.  8,000 x ~550 = ~4.4 megawatts of power usage.  Ask one of the datacenter people what kind of space would be needed for this, what kind of power requirements, what kind of cooling would be needed, etc.  Even Bickfailskis vaunted immersion cooling he keeps trotting out would probably take 4 or 5 of those trailers to accomdate this much power and cooling needs.  It matters not, the stupid people have already shown their faces as I expected they would, that's already an X in the win column.

It's truly amazing to see that there are still people who send money to BFL after so many let downs.

That is why these lawsuits are important and why BFL will need to defend very vigorously or else they are going to lose everything that is left including the house, car and diners club cards and be on the hook for those personal "loans". Ouch.

I wonder how BFL paid $100,000USD to Josh? Did they use pre-order money? Or did they pay him off with "burn-in" testing? Be interesting to have the IRS audit that.

The elephant in the room is this IMHO

"IF you knew that BFL would not have to deliver a miner for more then 1+ year(s) w/o having to refund your $$$$.....would you have
ever ordered in the first place?"

When you order something you have a 'reasonable' expectation to get the item or get a refund....even IF the contract is written or
interpreted that is NEVER the case...as BFL claims"

Thus it is FRAUD either the intentional kind ($$$/and use of miner financed by customers..)

or

It is FRAUD of the unintentional kind...ie you did not have the skills/expertise/luck or whatever to get the item made in a timely fashion

So if what BFL says is true..any company can get your money for any purpose and not send you the product for more then 1+ year(s) with

NO possibility of a refund.....because you said/signed/implied or agreed (prob with a pop up box on the web order site) to these conditions...

If that is how companies could run the world..we'd all be working a coal mine yet and paying $$$ to the company store (bless my Irish ancestors)
because NO ONE would ever have progressed in capitalism from my great grandfathers time up the ladder to a large middle class system!

The fact this has gone on as long as it has just makes me sick that we have 'no real enforceable' regulations in this country (usa) anymore...
just kick the can down the road till it reaches this point 1 year later..FTC/Paypal/bfl's county attorney...i mean really....

NO ONE looks very good in the light of BFL's actions..including ME who was DUMB enough to believe them!

my 2c worth

Searing

(still p/o'd even after refund..)

 

BFL hasn't updated everyone one the new talking points for the Monarch.

He is still using the 2013 script he was issued at dinner with Josh.

All paid for with customer pre-order money. Also well documented that Sonny and others have corporate cards they use for personal expenses.

pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase, facts schmacts, you can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!  But then again BCP loves to ignore facts.

BFL has already admitted they mine with customer equipment on the main block chain. BCP's white knighting is getting sad.

“[BFL] earns mining income from their burn testing of machines as well as service fees charged to Eclipse customers,” documents state. This revelation represents some of the worst fears held by skeptics of BFL—that the company is using its own hardware to profit privately before sending miners to people who actually paid for them.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/04/digging-for-answers-the-strong-smell-of-fraud-from-one-bitcoin-miner-maker/2/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/217190032/Butterfly-Labs-Production-of-Requested-Information-December-6-2013